L1 Model II

Let's talk about the L1® Portable Line Array Systems

Using proprietary Bose® technology, L1 systems combine  PA and monitors into a single, highly portable unit. The  loudspeaker can be positioned behind or to the side —and you hear what the audience hears.

Highly portable PA and monitor combined for solo performers, DJs and general-purpose use. Fixed vertical control with 180° horizontal coverage Reduced vulnerability to feedback.

Three systems to choose from (Compact, Model 1S, Model II)
Two passive bass module options (B1 or B2)
Consistent coverage and tonal balance, portability and easy setup.

Hi LowG,

and a warm welcome to the forum from me, too.

If you could give us more information regarding your system we may be able to give more precise advice/tips as to finding a way to reduce the feedback problem.

Which Shure wireless microphone model are you using? This information will let us know which directionality (polar pattern) the microphone has (directionality means from which side/s the microphone actually hears sound. Omnidirectional means that it receives sound from all sides equally. This also means that it's more prone  to feedback (especially in an L1 system where the loudspeaker emanates sound over 180° horizontally. Usually a cardioid/supercardioid/hypercardioid polar pattern will be less susceptible  to feedback than one with omnidirectIonality.

Are you using a T1 or other mixer to control the microphone, or are you going directly into channel 1 on the Compact? If you're using a mixer that has sound gate possibilities these could be tried.

Are you moving around when using the microphone? Moving around can increase the danger of feedback.

If you're using the microphone for singing, are you using a lot of reverb? This would definitely increase the danger of feedback, as would the intensive use of compression.

As you can see, there are many factors which could be the cause for your problem. The more information you can give us, the more chance we have of maybe finding a way around this problem.

A good place for you to start would be to read the article in ST's link.

Does that help in any way?

Tony

 

 

Seagullman posted:

Hi LowG,

and a warm welcome to the forum from me, too.

If you could give us more information regarding your system we may be able to give more precise advice/tips as to finding a way to reduce the feedback problem.

Which Shure wireless microphone model are you using? This information will let us know which directionality (polar pattern) the microphone has (directionality means from which side/s the microphone actually hears sound. Omnidirectional means that it receives sound from all sides equally. This also means that it's more prone  to feedback (especially in an L1 system where the loudspeaker emanates sound over 180° horizontally. Usually a cardioid/supercardioid/hypercardioid polar pattern will be less susceptible  to feedback than one with omnidirectIonality.

Are you using a T1 or other mixer to control the microphone, or are you going directly into channel 1 on the Compact? If you're using a mixer that has sound gate possibilities these could be tried.

Are you moving around when using the microphone? Moving around can increase the danger of feedback.

If you're using the microphone for singing, are you using a lot of reverb? This would definitely increase the danger of feedback, as would the intensive use of compression.

As you can see, there are many factors which could be the cause for your problem. The more information you can give us, the more chance we have of maybe finding a way around this problem.

A good place for you to start would be to read the article in ST's link.

Does that help in any way?

Tony

 

 

Thank you for the information.  I just bought a Shure PGA31. I hope that will help.  I've tried moving the L1C. It is really odd because it happens more with one presenter than others.

I tried turning down the tone but it got very basey.

Oh the mic in this case is only used for speaking.  When I used a corded mic for singing -- no problems!

Again, thank you for the information.

Hi LowG,

thanks for the information regarding the microphone. Is this the one we're talking about?

http://cdn.shure.com/specifica...cification_Sheet.pdf

If so I've had a look at the specs for it. The polar pattern is cardioid (they say it's unidirectional but the cardioid pattern will probably not be able to reject enough of the signal from the loudspeaker to be feedback free when standing in front of it. 


Apollo Audio & Stage Services wrote:

"it depends on capsule, You use. A Headset with almost 360° is more liable to feedbacks than a hyper-cardiodid Mic."


I have to agree with what's been said here. Although you've not got an omnidirectional capsule - the 360° mentioned by Apollo Audio & Stage Services, you've basically got the next worse thing which is the cardioid pattern. Used with many systems where the loudspeakers are pretty directional, and by that I mean (and this is only an example) for instance 100° Horizontal and 60° Vertical coverage area where the microphone is probably being used to the side of or even behind the loudspeakers these capsules may work OK. The L1 Line Array system is different. The advantage of the 180° coverage horizontally can become problematical when the microphone capsule being used (due to its directionality) isn't able to reject the signal from the loudspeaker/s enough. Please don't get me wrong here. I'm not knocking your microphone, I'm just saying that it's probably not as compatible feedback wise as it could be for use with the Compact.

If you have no chance of maybe exchanging this microphone for e.g. one with a hypercardioid pattern, or your budget doesn't run to any thing more expensive, The only thing that I can suggest would be to try placing the Compact in front of the person using it (I have had to do this on more than one occasion, and although I had the compromise for myself of losing a little of the higher frequencies the overall sound for me was acceptable and the audience had the full Bose sound. 

Also, place the microphone capsule as close to the lips as you can without actually touching them. The Gooseneck to which the microphone is connected is flexible so that you can bend it into place as required. This means that you don't have to turn up the volume as high on the Compact thus reducing the risk of feedback.

One more thing. If you're fairly new to using the L1 loudspeaker system, it doesn't have to seem as loud up close as an ordinary loudspeaker system to be heard over greater distances. Have you tried using less volume and walked around the location to see how well you can be heard when using the microphone? If not, you may be surprised at how little volume you need to be heard around the room when doing a presentation.

As you've not given any indication of using any other gear (mixer etc.) I take it that you aren't, and that the output from the receiver from the wireless microphone is going directly into Channel 1 of the Compact. This is perfectly OK in most cases, but when problems (e.g. like feedback) occur there's not much you can do about it other than to do what I've already suggested (microphone placement, trying with less volume and also trying different positioning of the loudspeaker (including standing behind it).

There's a couple of things you've not mentioned which could be important (or not as the case may be).

Are you using the extensions for the Loudspeaker Array (by that I mean do you have the loudspeaker on top of the "Stick"?

Secondly, you haven't mentioned what sort of feedback you're getting. Is it a bit like a jet plane landing (a whistling) or more like a deep vibration in the lower frequencies? If it's the latter, moving the Compact as far away from any walls could help to solve this problem. I have a  feeling, however, that your problem is in the higher fluency range.

I'm sorry that I don't have a patent solution for your problem, but maybe I've given you a little insight as to what you can try out to ease it a little.

I do have one last piece of advice. Should you have the chance of exchanging the microphone for a different one (and also decide to do so), then I would advise you to take the Compact with you and try everything out together to see if it delivers what you need.

Sorry for the long post, but I've tried to cover as many Bases as I can with the information at hand.

Has this been of any help?

Tony

 

Hi LowG,

I run a hire company where we use the Compacts & L1 Model 2's a lot.  Headsets are always a lot more feedback prone than hand helds & when you use then with a rear mounted speaker like the Compact you're looking for trouble.   A couple of things I can suggest:

-The Shure WH20 is the dynamic version of that type of headset.  They're reasonably priced & a lot more feedback resistant.

-We often use feedback eliminators like the DBX AFS224, AFS2 or DriveRack.  Not everyone likes these but we find them essential when using L1's.  Forget about the Behringer units, DBX are the only ones who seem to have anything decent.   Even the Driverack PX or PA's are good with this.  They've just released the GoRack.  Haven't tried it but looks pretty good.  I think it's about $150.  

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Lee.

 

 

 

Seagullman posted:

Hi LowG,

thanks for the information regarding the microphone. Is this the one we're talking about?

http://cdn.shure.com/specifica...cification_Sheet.pdf

If so I've had a look at the specs for it. The polar pattern is cardioid (they say it's unidirectional but the cardioid pattern will probably not be able to reject enough of the signal from the loudspeaker to be feedback free when standing in front of it. 


Apollo Audio & Stage Services wrote:

"it depends on capsule, You use. A Headset with almost 360° is more liable to feedbacks than a hyper-cardiodid Mic."


I have to agree with what's been said here. Although you've not got an omnidirectional capsule - the 360° mentioned by Apollo Audio & Stage Services, you've basically got the next worse thing which is the cardioid pattern. Used with many systems where the loudspeakers are pretty directional, and by that I mean (and this is only an example) for instance 100° Horizontal and 60° Vertical coverage area where the microphone is probably being used to the side of or even behind the loudspeakers these capsules may work OK. The L1 Line Array system is different. The advantage of the 180° coverage horizontally can become problematical when the microphone capsule being used (due to its directionality) isn't able to reject the signal from the loudspeaker/s enough. Please don't get me wrong here. I'm not knocking your microphone, I'm just saying that it's probably not as compatible feedback wise as it could be for use with the Compact.

If you have no chance of maybe exchanging this microphone for e.g. one with a hypercardioid pattern, or your budget doesn't run to any thing more expensive, The only thing that I can suggest would be to try placing the Compact in front of the person using it (I have had to do this on more than one occasion, and although I had the compromise for myself of losing a little of the higher frequencies the overall sound for me was acceptable and the audience had the full Bose sound. 

Also, place the microphone capsule as close to the lips as you can without actually touching them. The Gooseneck to which the microphone is connected is flexible so that you can bend it into place as required. This means that you don't have to turn up the volume as high on the Compact thus reducing the risk of feedback.

One more thing. If you're fairly new to using the L1 loudspeaker system, it doesn't have to seem as loud up close as an ordinary loudspeaker system to be heard over greater distances. Have you tried using less volume and walked around the location to see how well you can be heard when using the microphone? If not, you may be surprised at how little volume you need to be heard around the room when doing a presentation.

As you've not given any indication of using any other gear (mixer etc.) I take it that you aren't, and that the output from the receiver from the wireless microphone is going directly into Channel 1 of the Compact. This is perfectly OK in most cases, but when problems (e.g. like feedback) occur there's not much you can do about it other than to do what I've already suggested (microphone placement, trying with less volume and also trying different positioning of the loudspeaker (including standing behind it).

There's a couple of things you've not mentioned which could be important (or not as the case may be).

Are you using the extensions for the Loudspeaker Array (by that I mean do you have the loudspeaker on top of the "Stick"?

Secondly, you haven't mentioned what sort of feedback you're getting. Is it a bit like a jet plane landing (a whistling) or more like a deep vibration in the lower frequencies? If it's the latter, moving the Compact as far away from any walls could help to solve this problem. I have a  feeling, however, that your problem is in the higher fluency range.

I'm sorry that I don't have a patent solution for your problem, but maybe I've given you a little insight as to what you can try out to ease it a little.

I do have one last piece of advice. Should you have the chance of exchanging the microphone for a different one (and also decide to do so), then I would advise you to take the Compact with you and try everything out together to see if it delivers what you need.

Sorry for the long post, but I've tried to cover as many Bases as I can with the information at hand.

Has this been of any help?

Tony

 

Thank you Tony. I will try your suggestions 

Hi lowg,

I suggest that you try the Shure PGA31 since you've actually go it. I have one and I've used it for public speaking with a Compact many times. It was fine to stand in front of the Compact as long as I was aware that I should not turn around and look at the Compact while wearing it. The feedback occurred when I as I was turning toward it or walking close to the Compact. It was fine as long as my head was between the microphone and the Compact.

I also have a Shure WH20. I got it after I acquired the PGA31.  I like the WH20  better, but that's mainly because I prefer the construction of the headset. It's a better fit for me and it's more comfortable. I think it may sound better, but that's entirely subjective.

Note: Both microphones have cardioid polar patterns. Both are fine as long as I avoid leaving a clear path from the side of the microphone to the Compact speaker array (at the of the extensions).  

Having said that, I also own much more expensive headset microphones with hyper-cardioid (more directional) polar patterns. They provide better gain before feedback. I use them when I'm the one using them where sound quality is very important to me. That's worth the several hundred dollars difference in price to me.

If I'm working with someone who is unfamiliar with using a delicate headset microphone, the Shure PGA31 or Shure WH20 have been fine.

Feedback controllers - well it's another piece of gear and more expense. I've managed to get good to excellent results in most situations with my L1®s without them.

ST

Hi lowG,

ST's advice: 

"I suggest that you try the Shure PGA31 since you've actually go it. I have one and I've used it for public speaking with a Compact many times. It was fine to stand in front of the Compact as long as I was aware that I should not turn around and look at the Compact while wearing it. The feedback occurred when I as I was turning toward it or walking close to the Compact. It was fine as long as my head was between the microphone and the Compact."

is really good advice. It's coming from someone who uses the microphone and probably also from the forum member with the most experience with using L1 systems under many different circumstances and conditions.

There is just one thing to remember, and ST mentions it in the paragraph above (not turning to the Compact or walking too near to it). This is  a discipline thing and something that you just need to get used to. For someone using this headset on a fairly regular basis this should provide no real problem.

You wrote:

"It is really odd because it happens more with one presenter than others."

This sounds as if that person's behavior while using the headset was different to other users. A solution to your problem may well be to stress the importance of not turning toward or walking too near to the Compact while using the headset. Basically just discipline.

I hope that this helps in some way.

Tony

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