Apex Condenser microphone with L1 Model II

I purchased an Apex Condenser microphone. My Tone Match engine does not list it nor does it list any condenser microphones. Bose suggested using the Shure SM58. However, I get too much feedback when I try to turn up the volume. Any suggestions.

Edit subject. Previously "Which Mike To Use"

Original Post

Hi Posker,

Thank you for joining the Bose Portable PA Community.  Welcome.

Which Apex condenser microphone do you have? Please give us a link to the owners guide.

How are you using the microphone? Vocals, instrument?

How far is the microphone from the sound source?

How large is the room where you are using this microphone.

What other Bose Portable PA equipment are you using (L1 Compact, L1 Model 1S, L1 Model II, S1 Pro)?

What are people doing while you are performing?

Thanks,

ST

Copied from another thread How do I set up my microphone with the T1 ToneMatch® audio engine

Posker posted:

Great video!

I have a problem with a condenser mike I purchased. It's an Apex 415 which uses phantom power. I can't seem to get any volume out of it without feedback. I've been on the phone with Bose for several hours with no help.

The L1 model II is about 30 feet away from the microphone. Bose told me the closest mike to use was the Shure SM58 (even though it is not a condenser mike).

Any ideas?

We still need some more information please.

Which Apex condenser microphone do you have? Please give us a link to the owners guide.

How are you using the microphone? Vocals, instrument?

How far is the microphone from the sound source?

How large is the room where you are using this microphone.

What other Bose Portable PA equipment are you using (L1 Compact, L1 Model 1S, L1 Model II, S1 Pro)?  L1 Model II

Do you have a ToneMatch mixer (T1, T4S, T8S)?

What are people doing while you are performing?

Thank you,

ST

Hi Posker,

Thanks for the added information.

You microphone is best suited for studio recording (where there is no amplification in the vicinity), or live sound for very loud sound sources - and significant distance from amplification.

Depending on which polar pattern you choose, it is going to be extremely difficult to avoid direct or reflected sound from the L1 getting back to the microphone. That's the cause of the feedback.

I have had some success with other figure-8 pattern microphones with the L1, but I had to block the back half of the figure 8 with sound shielding.

If you are trying to capture both vocal and guitar, you probably have the microphone several inches away from both sound sources. This works okay for recording, but in a live sound amplification situation (e.g., an L1 in the same room) this is another cause for the feedback.

For live sound reinforcement it's easier to manage one microphone for vocals and a pickup in the guitar.  You can use close mic technique with the vocal mic (lips barely brushing the windscreen). This will help you to get the gain-before-feedback you need for live music performance. Using a pickup in the guitar will also give you much greater gain-before-feedback than using a microphone in front of the guitar.

Do you have access to a hand-held vocal microphone like a Shure SM58 or something similar?

Do you have a pickup in your guitar?

Are you performing for an audience?

How many people are there?

What are they doing while you are performing?

ST

Thanks for responding...the reason I am trying to use this microphone is that I would like to be able to have 2-3 people use it in a semi-circle playing guitar, ukulele and mandolin which I have seen others do. The main reason I chose the Apex 415 is that I used it before for this purpose. It was set up in a large theatre where I played with several others to an audience of 80 and it worked perfectly. I don't know what P.A. system they used but again, it worked perfectly...no squelching and extremely clear on both vocals and instrumentation.

I do have a Shure SM 58 but I bought the Apex for a different purpose. I do have a pickup in my guitar, but again, I do not want to use it for this purpose. Until I get this microphone working I am performing only for myself but if/when I get it working then I will be performing with various sizes of audiences in various sizes of rooms.

Hi Posker,

The main reason I chose the Apex 415 is that I used it before for this purpose. It was set up in a large theatre where I played with several others to an audience of 80 and it worked perfectly. I don't know what P.A. system they used but again, it worked perfectly...no squelching and extremely clear on both vocals and instrumentation.

It can easier to avoid feedback in a large theatre. You can direct  the sound and keep it away from the microphone. It sounds like you may have had the pleasure of working with a sound system that was professionally engineered for that venue.

Feedback occurs when the sound from the loudspeaker (or loudspeakers if a microphone is connected to more than one) is louder at the microphone than the sound of the voice.

This fundamental fact is shown in the figure below. Note that in the diagram an L1 system is shown but the same fundamental fact is true for ANY loudspeaker.

If you understand this diagram, it is relatively easy to understand how changes in an amplification system and room can contribute to either increasing or decreasing the likelihood of feedback.

Please see the full article: Microphone Feedback

Posker posted:

Thanks for responding...the reason I am trying to use this microphone is that I would like to be able to have 2-3 people use it in a semi-circle playing guitar, ukulele and mandolin which I have seen others do.

We have explored applications like this.  Please see:

Traditional Music System

The article is from 2005, but the principles are still applicable.

I do have a Shure SM 58 but I bought the Apex for a different purpose. I do have a pickup in my guitar, but again, I do not want to use it for this purpose. Until I get this microphone working I am performing only for myself but if/when I get it working then I will be performing with various sizes of audiences in various sizes of rooms.

Using this Apex microphone, you'll need to experiment with the polar patterns. The cardioid polar pattern is probably best for your application when you get into a larger performance space. In your 20x30 foot room, it may be difficult to get much gain-before-feedback. Reflections off the walls can bounce the sound from the L1 back to the microphone.

I understand why using one microphone for several performers has artistic merit. Unfortunately, that's difficult to do with a portable PA system. You can make it work if you can control the environment, but portable PA means working in varied and uncontrolled settings.

ST

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