L1 Model II

Let's talk about the L1® Portable Line Array Systems

Using proprietary Bose® technology, L1 systems combine  PA and monitors into a single, highly portable unit. The  loudspeaker can be positioned behind or to the side —and you hear what the audience hears.

Highly portable PA and monitor combined for solo performers, DJs and general-purpose use. Fixed vertical control with 180° horizontal coverage Reduced vulnerability to feedback.

Three systems to choose from (Compact, Model 1S, Model II)
Two passive bass module options (B1 or B2)
Consistent coverage and tonal balance, portability and easy setup.

Which L1(s) best for this situation?

Hi-end bar, adjacent to restaurant. Jazz trio (+) as house band, semi-permanat, on very small stage. Could not fit baby grand, so will be using Roland FP90 or similar, small drum kit (16 or 18" bass) with single overhead mic, upright bass w/pickup. Occasional vocalist and or horn will be squeezed in, so 1-2 extra mic channels. Plan to use Bose 8-channel Tone Master.

Question is, which L1?

Bar venue shape is long, narrow room, seating is around 50 seats nearby, for focus on music, and 45 more seats at far end, where music is intended to be less central focus, enabling more conversation.

Stage sound will be collected into a single channel for optional routing (via Dante) to house main AV system (main dining room, private rooms). This means that far end of bar area could have slight additional boost of stage sound routed to Bose ceiling speakers if/when desired.

The integrator who is designing both stage and overall restaurant AV is recommending a single L1-II+B2 for stage. I am thinking that a 1S may be quite sufficient, or even perhaps 2 Compacts, one with a bass module added.

Sound should be very "acoustic" - hoping to achieve best clarity and richness more than gross SPLs. I tend to think the drums and acoustic bass may in fact be nearly sufficient totally un-reinforced for the nearest seats, but the L1+ToneMaster stage system will help even out volume for further seats, and also serve the function of pulling everything together into a single channel for routing elsewhere.

Grateful for any thoughts from experienced L1 users/installers

Original Post

I'd skip the Compacts.   I agree on the notion the 1S may be enough; what I don't know is if the band monitoring off the pole will differ between the 1S and the 2. Depending on geometry, you may be shooting over the heads of the guests in front, which may be a positive or a negative. I see no downside the Model 2 except for the added expense. Ignoring any room acoustics for the moment, I'd go B2 with either pole.  My experience has been that in long narrow spaces with an L1,  you're going to want plenty of sub.

Is everyone monitoring off the L1?

@ST : room is about 7m (~23ft) wide at stage+bar end, 5m (~16ft) wide at far end, length is 26m (~83ft), so long and narrow.

Stage faces the long way down the room, and is about 5m (~16ft) wide at back, and 2.5m (~8ft) deep, back-to-front. Stage front corners (by audience) are slightly rounded, so not full rectangular area. 

also, seat count correction: ~50 in stage end, 28 at far end.

@Smitty : Stage height will be around only 30cm. Standing on stage facing audience, closest are three small two-top tables hard upon the stage, then along right wall is bar with high-ish barstools, along left wall are four booths (4-5 seats each) on slightly raised flooring, finally more tables beyond, at floor level.

So front-most tables may well be below projection of stage L1(s), but these seats will get more than enough direct, acoustic sound (though mix for these seats may be rather different than mix coming out of reinforcement gear).

There is a lot of glass along bar wall, but designers have done their best to mitigate ill effects of this, putting plenty of diffusion/absorption features onto ceiling and other walls. Floor is carpet.

Currently, only planned monitoring will be L1 (though I expect with limited stage depth it might be difficult to get all players into the projection field of a single L1, thus I wondered if two would help monitoring use). Additional monitoring of course from just natural sound, because musicians will be like sardines on this stage. I am aiming for disciplined players (esp drummer) who can play energetically at still moderate volumes, so hopefully stage sound will be un-muddled enough so everyone can hear one-another and themselves with minimal/no monitoring. Hope that's not an un-realistic goal!

House AV is based on Bose ESP 880 DSP matrix router, which will enable delay if stage sound is patched into house.

 

In terms of stage monitoring, I’ve used the S1 Pro with my L1M2 from the Aux Out of my mixer. Something to consider as it has a small footprint and can run on battery allowing for flexible stage placement. 

This might be a stretch, but using the S1 in floor monitor position with an L1S might help fill in the sound for the folks closest to the stage and still be able to be used as a stage monitor. 

Anyway, just throwing out the idea.

Hi bobm,

Thanks for the added information.

Put a single L1 Model II with B2 on the stage.  You may not need the B2 compared to a couple of B1s, but the B2 gives you more options.

For context, I have a couple of L1 Compacts, L1 Model 1S, L1 Model II, and B1 and B2 bass modules. I've used them all in countless settings. 

I would not use L1 Compacts in this situation. You would have to run them too loud (stage volume) to reach the back of the room. You wouldn't have enough gain before feedback to meet your needs.

For the rest of this conversation, I'm comparing the L1 Model II to the L1 Model 1S.

bobm posted:

@ST : room is about 7m (~23ft) wide at stage+bar end, 5m (~16ft) wide at far end, length is 26m (~83ft), so long and narrow.

Given the depth of the room, you'll appreciate the longer throw you get with the L1 Model II compared to the L1 Model 1S.   They both behave similarly, but you will be able to run a lower stage volume with the L1 Model II - and still be heard at the back.

Stage faces the long way down the room, and is about 5m (~16ft) wide at back, and 2.5m (~8ft) deep, back-to-front. Stage front corners (by audience) are slightly rounded, so not full rectangular area. 

That's a shallow stage, so you will have a better monitoring experience with the L1 Model II.  Both models share extremely wide horizontal coverage, but you'll be able to run at a lower stage volume with the L1 Model II, and get the job done. This will reduce the likelihood of feedback from the overhead and vocal microphones.



also, seat count correction: ~50 in stage end, 28 at far end.

@Smitty : Stage height will be around only 30cm. Standing on stage facing audience, closest are three small two-top tables hard upon the stage, then along right wall is bar with high-ish barstools, along left wall are four booths (4-5 seats each) on slightly raised flooring, finally more tables beyond, at floor level.

So front-most tables may well be below projection of stage L1(s), but these seats will get more than enough direct, acoustic sound (though mix for these seats may be rather different than mix coming out of reinforcement gear).

You'll get better vertical coverage with the L1 Model II. There are 24 drivers spanning the entire column from top to bottom. There are 12 drivers in the L1 Model 1S in the top half of the column, starting at about one meter.

With the L1 Model 1S, the sound below the array will be slightly muffled, and from your description, this could be noticeable for the people at the front tables and your seated pianist and drummer.



There is a lot of glass along bar wall, but designers have done their best to mitigate ill effects of this, putting plenty of diffusion/absorption features onto ceiling and other walls. Floor is carpet.

Currently, only planned monitoring will be L1 (though I expect with limited stage depth it might be difficult to get all players into the projection field of a single L1, thus I wondered if two would help monitoring use).

The single L1 Model II will give you the horizontal coverage you need for the stage as long as the bassist is not standing directly in front of the cylindrical radiator.  Adding a second powered loudspeaker will lower your gain before feedback. Try to make it work with the single L1. You can add an S1 Pro as a spot monitor for the vocalists, but I doubt they will need it.

Additional monitoring of course from just natural sound, because musicians will be like sardines on this stage. I am aiming for disciplined players (esp drummer) who can play energetically at still moderate volumes, so hopefully stage sound will be un-muddled enough so everyone can hear one-another and themselves with minimal/no monitoring. Hope that's not an un-realistic goal!

That sounds realistic.



House AV is based on Bose ESP 880 DSP matrix router, which will enable delay if stage sound is patched into house.

You're covered.

Cheers,

ST

Thanks all, especially ST. Sounds like the integrator's advice - one L1-II plus a B2 - gets pretty good consensus here. 

This gig doesn't get going until early next year. It has been a great blessing to be able to get input into room design as well as house/stage equipment well in advance of putting live music on the stage.

I'll try to remember to post results back here once things get going.

One more question on this project: Assuming a single L1-II + B2, where on stage to place it? and which way to aim it to get best projection into audience area? whilst minimizing unwanted reverberation off glass wall behind bar (other walls are absorption/diffusion treated) ?

Here is a picture of the rough layout, not really to scale, and not reflecting all of the actual seats.  I have added some signposts (Back Right, Back Left, Front Right) to facilitate discussion.

I have tentatively drawn the L1 in behind the bass, about midway between BL and BR,  but really don't know what will work best. Given the 180 degree dispersion, I am not sure which way to point the tower, to best deal with the odd room shape, and the one badly reflective wall along the left side.

Also, keep in mind that if needed the stage sound can be routed into house AV (with a delay if needed) into a Bose ceiling speaker zone at the lower end of the room.

Needless to say, before opening we can fiddle and test to find the best setup, but to get us started, any suggestions from experienced L1 live sound people here (@ST !) gratefully accepted.

Attachments

Photos (1)

Hi bobm,

Can you give us the dimensions of the stage?  You've told us the room is 23 feet wide. How wide is the stage, and how deep is it?

bobm posted:

One more question on this project: Assuming a single L1-II + B2, where on stage to place it? and which way to aim it to get best projection into audience area? whilst minimizing unwanted reverberation off glass wall behind bar (other walls are absorption/diffusion treated) ?

I would try to get the L1® closer to the center of the room and aim it straight down the length of the room.

Unfortunately, it looks like you may not have enough stage depth at the Front Left corner to make that work.

Here is a picture of the rough layout, not really to scale, and not reflecting all of the actual seats.  I have added some signposts (Back Right, Back Left, Front Right) to facilitate discussion.

I have tentatively drawn the L1 in behind the bass, about midway between BL and BR,  but really don't know what will work best. Given the 180 degree dispersion, I am not sure which way to point the tower, to best deal with the odd room shape, and the one badly reflective wall along the left side.

Also, keep in mind that if needed the stage sound can be routed into house AV (with a delay if needed) into a Bose ceiling speaker zone at the lower end of the room.

You may need to do that.



Needless to say, before opening we can fiddle and test to find the best setup, but to get us started, any suggestions from experienced L1 live sound people here (@ST !) gratefully accepted.

ST

PS - I'm sorry I missed this earlier.

Attachments

Photos (1)

 

Stage dimension is 16' wide at back, and barely 8' front-to-back at center. (Unlike my sketch, which is definitely not-to-scale, the front of the stage is a bit rounded, not angled.)

So it's gonna be tight. We will use a very small jazz drum kit, w/18" bass drum max, keyboard will be 88key digital+stand+bench, there may be a mike stand or two,  but music stands, if any, will be small iPad stands.

Actual stage layout, including instruments/players, gear and LI+B2, is all still quite flexible, whatever might work we can try, though musician will have preferences for sight-lines to communicate whilst playing. In sketch I have tentatively put drums in BL corner because that spot has more stage depth.

Assuming we can work it out so L1 tower is more or less at center of room width, my concern about pointing it straight down the long axis is that the left wall (behind bar and beyond) is all glass, whereas the opposite wall (behind booths) is more acoustically absorptive and refractive. 

Hi Bobm,

bobm posted:

Stage dimension is 16' wide at back, and barely 8' front-to-back at center. (Unlike my sketch, which is definitely not-to-scale, the front of the stage is a bit rounded, not angled.)

For your room, I'd try to get the vocal microphones at least 5 feet from the L1 Model 1S Cylindrical Radiator®.  Also, I encourage you to use microphones with a supercardioid or hypercardioid polar pattern. When setting up the microphones on stands, set them up so the microphones are not pointed directly at the Cylindrical Radiator®.

Have we talked about your mixer yet? If not, consider one of the ToneMatch mixers. They have good control for EQ (3 tone controls plus 3 parametric EQs per channel on the T4S and T8S models).  Then you can use the Noise Gate to automatically shut-down microphones when they are not in use.

So it's gonna be tight. We will use a very small jazz drum kit, w/18" bass drum max, keyboard will be 88key digital+stand+bench, there may be a mike stand or two,  but music stands, if any, will be small iPad stands.

Actual stage layout, including instruments/players, gear and LI+B2, is all still quite flexible, whatever might work we can try, though musician will have preferences for sight-lines to communicate whilst playing. In sketch I have tentatively put drums in BL corner because that spot has more stage depth.

Yes, I expect the Bassist may want to be next to the Drummer. With a stage this tight, I wouldn't put the drums in the middle. This will tend to isolate performers on either side of the kit.  So at least to start, I'd put the drums over in the corner.



Assuming we can work it out so L1 tower is more or less at center of room width, my concern about pointing it straight down the long axis is that the left wall (behind bar and beyond) is all glass, whereas the opposite wall (behind booths) is more acoustically absorptive and refractive. 

I understand your concern, and you'll have to test things out when the room is available to you. I don't expect the glass wall is going be to as much of an issue as you've anticipated because the opposite wall is more acoustically absorptive and refractive.

ST

@ST - Thanks, this ought to provide some good initial guidance once we start setting up, pre-opening.

Yes, we will use a T8S, so this should provide more tools to tweak sound to room/stage peculiarities. And your thoughts on the glass wall are reassuring.

Also, the stage sound from T8S/L1 will be cabled into the overall venue AV system. Here, if desired, a Bose matrix router can send the signal to Bose amps and ceiling speakers+sub in each of two zones in this room - bar-end and far-end, with delay added as needed. (As well as to other zones in adjacent dining areas.)

Overall, I guess we will have quite a few ways to dial in the best sonic result in this space. Thanks again. 

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