Bose F1 Model 812 with F1 Subwoofer

Discuss the Bose F1 Model 812 and F1 Subwoofer here.

  • Live music performances
  • Bands of all styles
  • Solo musicians
  • Mobile DJs
  • Places of worship
  • Schools and universities
  • Resorts and hospitality venues
  • Business presentations

Have an F1 Model 812 and F1 sub.  Have a second F1 812 on order.  

Bass is not directional, and Bose actually markets a package with 2 F1 812 and a single F1 sub.  

My question is why would you add a second F1 Sub?  

What do you gain by adding another?  

When would you need 2 instead of just one F1?

Thanks

Original Post

I'm not aware of any formula, say audience size or room size that will work. Venues, audiences and bands/musicians vary enormously. Most of us use experience to make an educated guess and try to err on the side of caution so if we're not sure if one sub will be enough we install two or 4 or WHY. I only have a single sub on my main rig (QSC K12s and an EV sBA 750) so if the whole band are going through the PA then it goes in, if it's a small room or an all acoustic band I may leave the sub at home.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Hi edmang,

I don't use the F1 system at all, but if I did I can think of several reasons I might choose to use two subs instead of just one. I have played many gigs with a L1 Model II and 4 B1 modules. Probably didn't need them, but used them anyway.

What kind of music do you play? Solo, Duo, Band? How many? What instruments? More we know the more we can talk about it. 

O..

Sam Spoons posted:

What makes you think you need a second sub?

In answer to your original question "What do you gain by adding another?", in a perfect world, about 6dB .

Put more sensibly, two subs are not very much louder than one and to create twice the volume you need 10x the power. 

HTH

Not thinking that I do need a second sub,   Just trying to understand the situation where I would possibly need second sub.

Hi edmang,

Many things we don't know, like the size of the venue, number of warm bodies, ambient noise level, dancing or listening.

The next question is, will the cost of an additional sub be a burden? If the answer is no, read on.

We have to make a couple of assumptions. You have determined that you do need the second full range speaker to feel confident your audience is getting the quality performance you are working to deliver and, you have doubts that the single sub will deliver the feel / volume of the bottom end to cover venues you have been playing. 

Lets explore some reasons for having the second sub.

Ease of setup, no separate stands needed.

Balanced appearance, never hurts to look good.

Even though bass is omnidirectional, still probably easier to get a even, balanced sound with two.

If you play heavy bass content music you can move more air which can provide more "feel", add extra punch to a bass drum.

If loud or heavy bass is not necessarily your goal you can still provide more even coverage of a space at lower volume with two subs.

I think by doubling the subs, you gain 3db in volume, but in my opinion volume never tells the whole story when talking about bass.

Last, you have a wider range of possibilities, meaning you can crank it up, turn down, use one, or two, match to the venue, and the needs of a particular gig.

What is the most important thing you gain with two subs? Peace of mind.

Now if you list your reasons for not buying the second sub, we'll help you decide.

O..

 

 

 

 

 

Oldghm posted:

Hi edmang,

Many things we don't know, like the size of the venue, number of warm bodies, ambient noise level, dancing or listening.

The next question is, will the cost of an additional sub be a burden? If the answer is no, read on.

We have to make a couple of assumptions. You have determined that you do need the second full range speaker to feel confident your audience is getting the quality performance you are working to deliver and, you have doubts that the single sub will deliver the feel / volume of the bottom end to cover venues you have been playing. 

Lets explore some reasons for having the second sub.

Ease of setup, no separate stands needed.

Balanced appearance, never hurts to look good.

Even though bass is omnidirectional, still probably easier to get a even, balanced sound with two.

If you play heavy bass content music you can move more air which can provide more "feel", add extra punch to a bass drum.

If loud or heavy bass is not necessarily your goal you can still provide more even coverage of a space at lower volume with two subs.

I think by doubling the subs, you gain 3db in volume, but in my opinion volume never tells the whole story when talking about bass.

Last, you have a wider range of possibilities, meaning you can crank it up, turn down, use one, or two, match to the venue, and the needs of a particular gig.

What is the most important thing you gain with two subs? Peace of mind.

Now if you list your reasons for not buying the second sub, we'll help you decide.

O..

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for the reply.  Does make a lot of sense to me to get one.

Main reason for not having the second sub at this time is financial.   But that will change and not be an issue down the road.

Was more just wanting to know what might be missing without having one, or if I could end up in a position of needing one and not having it available.

Thanks for the replies all

Hi edmang,

In a light hearted way I was trying to give you permission to allow gear acquisition syndrome to over take you and justify a purchase, but remember my qualifying statement about finances.

I am a firm believer in not buying what I really don't need if it stretches my finances.

Now might be a good time to continue with two tops and a single bottom. When finances and opportunities to play more come around you will have a better idea if it is worth it or not.

In the last 15 or 20 years we have moved from big and loud is better to a place where clarity and allowing space for each voice and instrument to have their shining spot is the desired mix. You should be able to achieve clarity and sufficient volume with two tops and a single bottom.

There are some magic formulas for installed systems with known parameters. For portable systems that might be in a small space this week and stretched to their max next week it's probably better to buy what you are familiar with setting up and are willing to pack around, and adjust power as needed. 

O..

 

As I said above I use a single sub* and reasons not to have two include, better phase coherence, ease of positioning, less weight to load in/out and less cost. As Oldghm says above an extra sub only increases volume by 3dB (not 6dB as I said above, senior moment there....) so not much. Double the volume is 10dBs and requires 10x the power to achieve.

* My rig is not Bose but is fairly close to the same power as 2 x 812s and a single sub.

There are a lot of situations where you could use a second sub.

The biggest reason to have two is so that you have a back-up on the spot seamlessly keeping things going in case one fails. They can fail.

I charge too much to not have backups for my gear. At least that’s what my clients always tell me.

As far as actual benefit to your sound... IMHO it is not needed at all and if it is actually “needed” you will probably need a lot more than just another sub...

But you WILL get swollen pecs, biceps, and deltoids!! So you can save some money from the gym. One year = one F1 sub. 

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