L1 Model II

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Using proprietary Bose® technology, L1 systems combine  PA and monitors into a single, highly portable unit. The  loudspeaker can be positioned behind or to the side —and you hear what the audience hears.

Highly portable PA and monitor combined for solo performers, DJs and general-purpose use. Fixed vertical control with 180° horizontal coverage Reduced vulnerability to feedback.

Three systems to choose from (Compact, Model 1S, Model II)
Two passive bass module options (B1 or B2)
Consistent coverage and tonal balance, portability and easy setup.

Using The T1 Without The L1

Hey Folks,
I hope I'm not duplicating discussions or rehashing something that's been covered elsewhere.

I'm trying to get a bottom line answer as to how well the T1 will work with other sound systems. Thanks to a post by ST, I have been running by guitar pick-up in stereo. This lead me to start shopping around for a pick-up blending unit to use with my T1 and to take with me to use in non-L1 situations.

Thanks to some good advice by Tom Munch, last night I tried simply using the T1 as my pick-up blender and I loved it. (Meaning no other outboard gear between my guitar and the T1)

I am flying to a few shows this spring and summer and I'm thinking of just bringing my T1 to use with whatever sound system happens to be there.

I have two questions: 1) Will this work? I'd love to hear from the @Bose folks and from anyone who has tried the T1 though various other sound systems. I remember posting about this when the T1 was announced and some people were concerned that since the T1 was designed for the L1, it might not work as well through other systems.

2) If this will work, would I want to take the master 1/4" out to a DI box and send a balanced signal to the board or just go 1/4" master out and direct into the board?

The T1 sounds great running the master out to my little Fishman amp but that's the only non-L1 thing I have access to and I probably won't get to test this on any other systems until I'm at the first of these gigs.

Thanks for the help!

Matt
Original Post
Hi Matt,

quote:
I am flying to a few shows this spring and summer and I'm thinking of just bringing my T1 to use with whatever sound system happens to be there.

I have two questions: 1) Will this work? I'd love to hear from the @Bose folks and from anyone who has tried the T1 though various other sound systems. I remember posting about this when the T1 was announced and some people were concerned that since the T1 was designed for the L1, it might not work as well through other systems.


I believe the T1 will work better for you than if you used a small mixer. What is less predictable is the benefits you would get from the ToneMatch presets as they are voiced using the L1 to get optimal sound with the L1. You may need to select different presets or make changes to the zEQ settings.

quote:
2) If this will work, would I want to take the master 1/4" out to a DI box and send a balanced signal to the board or just go 1/4" master out and direct into the board?


The T1 Master Out is a balanced 1/4" TRS line level output. A 1/4" TRS male to male XLR cable would enable you to send a balanced line level signal directly to the board. A 1/4" cable into a DI will also work but the results can vary depending on the quality of the DI (some cheap DI have poor frequency response and some distort with line level) but this is usually not an issue.

Hopefully someone who has used their T1 in this fashion will post the results of their experience.
quote:
Originally posted by Le5:
The T1 Master Out is a balanced 1/4" TRS line level output. A 1/4" TRS male to male XLR cable would enable you to send a balanced line level signal directly to the board. A 1/4" cable into a DI will also work but the results can vary depending on the quality of the DI (some cheap DI have poor frequency response and some distort with line level) but this is usually not an issue.

Hopefully someone who has used their T1 in this fashion will post the results of their experience.

Mark


I did an opening for a large outdoor act at The Villages Polo Field for Danny & the Juniors (their not very Junior anymore) several months back. They had a very large sound setup and all I did was plug into a DI box from their soundman. It worked out great and sounded excellent from what people told me.

Interesting, I forgot that the 1/4 was balanced, so I could have just had an adapter cable from 1/4 to XLR female.

The DI does give the option of Ground lift and attenuation if needed.

Another interesting item, apparently I had left compression turned on and he immediately asked if I would turn it off. Not sure how he could tell from down there (I would guess his VU meters were pumping or something). The soundman and mixers were at least 150-200 feet away.
Since I had a wireless EV767, I wandered front a few times and it sounded good.

I have also used my T1, with the L1 MII and a wireless mike/guitar transmitter/receiver unit (an old Nady UHF-10) out to a powered speaker in another room with good results.

The T1 is excellent.
Matt,

The whole thing with using the T1 with other systems is that we don't really know how its going to sound since all big house systems are different. Generally folks have reported the presets work well - so I think you will be fine with them. If the presets are not working, you can always go Flat using the Acoustic Guitar zEQ for adjustments (last preset in the Acoustic Guitar bank). And you'll still have all of the effects and tools in the T1 at your disposal.

Bottom line answer: personally I'd bring the T1. You won't need a DI to go from the Master out of the T1 to a house board, unless you have a three prong power cable somewhere in your rig. Bring one if you have one just in case.

If you are running on a big stage with a sound engineer, I would advise you to run your vocals through the house board and not the T1. The engineer will want to have control of the two instruments separately. You will probably want them to put reverb on the vocals that suits the house sound anyways. You'll just have to feel out the situation and go with the flow.

-Mike
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Munch:
quote:
Another interesting item, apparently I had left compression turned on and he immediately asked if I would turn it off.


I probably would have told him that it was set the way I wanted it. Wink


In my early days with the T1, I thought the compression was neat. And in some cases it was, but it also was the source of feedback at times when we were closer to the L1. With the EV 767's, I just use a shade of reverb (helps me hear a little better) and once in a while a bit of Analog delay for specific oldies that had that in their style. I cannot imagine using my old Mackie or Beheringer mixers anymore.
quote:
Turns out the Tonematch presets are universal enough (since the L1 is such a good reference sound) that the presets sound great on a lot of systems.


Tom was listening carefully in Cuchara. This is a big, delicious, delicate subject. I shall attempt to wade in shortly.

Ken
quote:
Originally posted by Joelheck:

Interesting, I forgot that the 1/4 was balanced, so I could have just had an adapter cable from 1/4 to XLR female.


You would need to use a 1/4" TRS (balanced) to XLR male (not female). The XLR male is the standard used for the output signal. One trick to remember this is to think of the output connector on a hand held microphone which is a male XLR.
Thank you all for the wonderful information. I really appreciate it! I’ve enjoyed going direct into the T1 and I’m excited that people think this will transfer well to other systems.

There is something else I’m wondering about. Often times, when I am not using my L1 it is when I’m part of an event that features several musicians. That is the case with the shows I need to fly to in the near future. In those situations, I don’t usually have a lot of time to set up and sound check. They are moving acts on and off stage quickly and people usually expect the solo acts to pretty much be “plug and play.”

I’m wondering if the T1 would be too complicated in these kinds of settings. For instance, if I plug in, using the T1 with a foreign system and things don’t sound good, where do I start? I would assume I’d start with the EQ presets but do I bypass them or try and find different ones that sound better? Then I guess I would move on to the zEQ and so on.

Until last night, I have always kept my Baggs Para DI in between my guitar and my “mixer,” be it a conventional mixer, my L1 Classic or my T1. That way, when I have to use different systems, I am at least starting with the same settings on my Para DI. Granted, if things didn’t sound good on a new system, I’d still have to try and make adjustments but for some reason (maybe because I’m comfortable with the Para DI) it doesn’t seem as complicated as it would with the T1.

For example, I was messing around today using my Fishman Loudbox 100. It’s the only non-L1 reference I have and I wanted to see how the T1 sounded through the amp. I thought the Element preset was fine but I didn’t care for the iBeam preset. I bypassed it and that really threw off my zEQ settings, which were based on using the iBeam preset.

For comparisons sake, I set up my double Para DI’s (that is my make shift pick up blender. I send each pick up to a separate Para DI, take the 1/4” out of each one to a little Rolls Matchbox DI and then send a balanced signal to the board or in this case the amp) Then I went back and forth between the Para DI’s and the T1, both running into the Loudbox. I felt like I was able to dial in a sound I liked faster with the Para DI’s than I was with the T1. And with both the Para DI’s and the T1, I was starting from settings that sounded great to me through the L1.

That lead me to wonder if I’m still better off having a blender between my guitar and my T1 and then taking the blender with me for these “plug and play” shows. Or would it be a question of coming up with some “foreign PA” settings with for the T1 and saving those as scenes, maybe using the Acoustic Guitar zEQ that Mike suggested.

Lots to think about. I’m probably over analyzing this but I don’t think I’ll have a chance to test this until I’m standing on stage for a show next month in Bloomingdale, IL with whatever piece of gear I decided to put in my carry on bag!

Sorry for the long post. It's late/early and I'm tired.

Matt
Matt,

I can see two immediate problems with using the T1 in this kind of "festival sound" environment. 1) You may not be provided power. 2) You may not have anything to put the T1 on (flimsy mic stand, fragility of T1 mic stand & difficulty in changing it quickly for different-sized stands).

When I've performed at festivals for just a few numbers or run sound there just isn't time to get much hooked up & checked. You have to trust the sound guy to notch feedback & get your tone (which unfortunately rarely happens). The T1 will be something you'll either have to set on the stage floor or else there won't be power near enough to use. I've used a Pocket Blender clipped to my belt or set on the ground in this instance with some luck, but it's still a kludgy affair. Sometimes I bring my own mic stand so that everything can be ready to clip on & go. Traveling on a plane with one more piece of gear (mic stand) may not be something you want to do though.

As far as making the changes quickly on the T1, you can practice this & get good at it. The T1 is a little funky for quick changes with the settings knob & 3 variables knobs, but it's workable.

It's good that you're thinking this through so thoroughly. Being prepared to just walk up & play smoothly will make your performance that much more relaxed & that much better.

Tom
Thanks Tom,
Taking all of this into consideration, I might be better off running my iMix in mono and bringing one Para DI and being done with it. I have a harmonica case that I always bring with me so I usually try to find a chair or a stool to rest my harps on and I can have the Para DI on that or on the floor. I don't worry as much about those as I do my T1.

An update on my long and tired post from early this morning: I messed around a bit more using my Fishman Loudbox again as a reference. I also used headphones both with the Fishman and directly with the T1 for another reference.

I loaded a brand new scene and started from scratch. I was able to very quickly dial in a sound that pleased me. I figured out that it was the iBeam preset that was bugging me so I ended up using the Element for the Element and the Acoustic Guitar zEQ that Mike suggested for the iBeam and that made a huge difference.

So I take back what I wondered about early this morning. I think it's a question of getting used to the T1 and figuring out what settings work best in certain situations.

Matt
A few thoughts I had regarding some points raised in this tread:

One option for using the T1 without the L1 in "festival" situations would be to connect your instruments and vocal microphone to the T1 as you would if you were using your L1 but:
  • Connect all T1 Preamp OUT (channel 1, 2 and 3) to the house system
  • Connect the T1 Aux Output to the house system if you need a direct out for ch 4/5
  • Connect the T1 Master Out to the house system to be used for your monitor feed

For a solo artist the house system should have plenty of channels to accommodate the maximum of five lines needed in the list above; the house engineer gets full control of your sources via the Preamp OUTs and a solo artist gets control of the monitor mix via the T1. You would have to explain to the sound engineer that the T1's master output is for the monitor mix only and that the other outputs are not to be sent to your monitor.

It would be advisable to have your own 1/4" TRS to XLR male cables or adapters, one for each of the T1 outputs you would be connecting to the house system, as there are no guaranties that the house tech would have any on hand.

Most "festival" stages have stools or chairs for the performers and the T1 could simply sit on one to speed up the setup. A few Velcro cable ties could secure all the cables (that are attached to the T1) to one of the legs of the stool/chair to help minimize the risk of the T1 being pulled onto the stage. I would also consider attaching a piece of self adhesive Velcro to the underside of the T1 and using a long piece of double sided Velcro to loop around the seat of the stool/chair to further secure the T1. Alternately a few pieces of strategically placed pieces of gaff tape could work as well.

Artists usually send a Rider (includes their technical requirements) to the festival organizers. In the Rider you would include the number of channels required, a stool for the T1 (two if you play sitting down), AC power for the T1, microphones... ("festival" stages should have power available for the musician's gear (guitar amp, effects unit, keyboard...).

The above is theoretical as I have not tried this. What do you think?

Edited for clarity

Edit: changed "direct out" to "Preamp OUT" to reflect actual label on back of T1
quote:
Originally posted by Le5:
You would need to use a 1/4" TRS (balanced) to XLR male (not female). The XLR male is the standard used for the output signal. One trick to remember this is to think of the output connector on a hand held microphone which is a male XLR.


Mark, thank you for pointing that out.

I checked my DI box and sure enough the XLR output is a male. Gosh, standards are great. We just need to remember them all.
Anyway I found a Hosa STX-305M Balanced 1/4 to XLR male 5ft cable for only 5.99 (+4.99 shipping) on Ebay.

Not a bad item to have in my adapter kit.
I wonder if sounds any different than going through the DI box?
quote:
Originally posted by Joelheck:
I wonder if sounds any different than going through the DI box?

Under most circumstances the difference in sound would not be noticeable. For greater distances it is usually preferable to send a line level signal than a mic level signal. A DI output is almost always mic level. A DI is an extra piece of gear in the audio path that is not necessary with the T1.

The Hosa STX-305M cable will work well as a T1 output cable for connecting to a house system.
On the subject of whether the T1 can be used without the L1, I would like to comment on one particular aspect.

Should you or should you not use a ToneMatch preset when using the T1 with other systems?

ToneMatch presets optimize the sound of a microphone or instrument when used with an L1 system. So this might lead you to conclude that a ToneMatch preset shouldn't be used with other systems.

But that wouldn't be quite right.

If that other system had a similar "voicing" or tonal response as the L1 then you would expect the ToneMatch preset to be of value with that other system.

There are potentially a class of systems that fit this description. The L1 system is voiced to make high quality commercial recordings sound the best we know how. Some studio systems are voiced the same way, as they are where those recordings were mixed.

Thus, on some studio systems, you should expect ToneMatch presets to be of value.

Other systems, including PA speakers and monitor speakers are voiced in an almost random and widely varying way, in our experience. Thus, as MikeZ points out, it's impossible to say whether a ToneMatch preset will help or hurt.

With best regards,

Ken
Hi Everyone

I have read and re-read all your posts regarding this topic and it has successfully given me a headache!! haha!

I am in a similar position to open-road-matt in that I too would like to use my T1 essentially as my effects box to plug in to any foreign PA set up I come across and yet still get a sound at least a bit similar to playing through my L1. But having read your posts, I understand that this is just a dream given the huge differences between various PA systems out there.
I have a gig this Friday using a foreign house PA and I am pooping my pants as I have become accustomed/dependent on my L1.
Could someone please post (with pics) what leads I need to plug the T1 into the house PA and any instructions I need to give the sound guy (and/or what t1 settings I should be mindful of i.e. where should the master volume be at?) I can see it all going to crap and me having to plug into a DI and direct into the soundbaord but I want to at least give the T1 a go.
So I want to go, guitar in to T1, T1 into DI, DI into house PA.
I don't have the AC adapter for the T1 yet so I'm gonna have to take with me the L1 base to power it which is going to look even sillier ..oh well...
I'm geting a little sick with worry over this. haha! why do I do it to myself??

Thanks guys
Hi Zerohour,

Mark (Le5) wrote a comprehensive article that addresses your questions here in the wiki.

T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine / Use without the L1® in Festival Situations


Mark's article describes how to do all this without the L1®.



Or Use the L1® as your monitor and send a line out to the house

Since you are bringing the Power Stand anyway, why not use your L1® as your stage monitor and send your T1® outputs to the Sound Engineer who is running the foreign house PA.

This way you will be able to hear yourself as you normally do, and the operator of the house system can do what is necessary to take care of the house.

Tell the house system engineer that you have a line-level ¼ inch Tip-Ring-Sleeve mono signal. If you are lucky, s/he will provide a cable to run from the T1® to the DI, and a DI.

If you want to provide the cable from the T1® to the DI, you can use an ordinary instrument cable like this:


or



If you want to skip the DI completely
you can probably use one of these.

XLR Male to TRS


This will allow you to send a balanced line-level signal via XLR to the house system.


Does that help?
quote:
Originally posted by Zerohour:
I understand that this is just a dream given the huge differences between various PA systems out there.


I wouldn't worry at all. I've only done this twice so far, with two very different PA systems. The T1 sounded great both times with very little adjustment on the T1 and the PA channel EQ set flat.

Matt
Hi

Thanks so much for your details response and direction to the wiki.

I will read up further and see how I go, though a part of me is wondering whether it is worth the stress of having to try to explain to every "foreign pa sound guy" how to make it work.
Maybe I should just use my L1 when I can and when I'm foreced to use a foreign PA, maybe just buy a zoom a2 or something and go direct to the PA??
Hi Zerohour,

quote:
Originally posted by Zerohour:
... maybe just buy a zoom a2 or something and go direct to the PA??


You can connect your T1® to the external PA in the same way as you would a Zoom A2. That is, take the Master Output (or Aux if you prefer) and connect that to the board or DI.

You can explain to the 'foreign pa sound guy' that this is your DI (with EQ and effects) and to connect it like s/he would any other DI or pedal.

Does that help?
Hi ST
Thanks for your patience, yes that does help.

I would only be using it for my guitar - which I currently plug in to the 4/5 imput - but I can transfer the settings to the 1,2 or 3 imput if I have to.

Just to confirm, regardless of which imput slot I use(1,2,3, or 4/5), I would go guitar to a T1 in (with guitar lead), then master output to a DI or direct to the board with another guitar lead or other lead and NOT go from the preamp out from the channel into the DI?
Hi Zerohour,

We're really close.

quote:
Originally posted by Zerohour:
Hi ST
Thanks for your patience, yes that does help.


You are welcome of course.
quote:


I would only be using it for my guitar - which I currently plug in to the 4/5 input - but I can transfer the settings to the 1,2 or 3 input if I have to.

I don't think you'll have to change anything. Channel 4/5 should be fine.

quote:

Just to confirm, regardless of which input slot I use(1,2,3, or 4/5), I would go guitar to a T1 in (with guitar lead), then master output to a DI or direct to the board with another guitar lead or other lead

Yes!
quote:

and NOT go from the preamp out from the channel into the DI?

Right! - you do NOT go from preamp out - because preamp out is basically a mirror of your input. That is, you would be bypassing any value contributed by the T1®.

It looks like you've got it.
Awesome.
Thanks again for your help.
I told my duo buddy about it and now HE wants in and is wondering whether he can also plug his guitar into the T1 as well as my guitar and put the T1 into the DI or direct into the board.

He's liking the idea of having his reverb settings through the foldback monitors as well.

If it does work, not sure what the implications are for our foldback. As our two instruments are essentially going into the one DI I guess we could get a mix of both our guitars through the foldback in one signal... could work ok..espcially as we're use to playing through one L1.
quote:
Originally posted by Zerohour:
...I told my duo buddy about it and now HE ... is wondering whether he can also plug his guitar into the T1 as well ... As our two instruments are essentially going into the one DI I guess we could get a mix of both our guitars ... could work ok..espcially as we're use to playing through one L1.
Absolutely right.

If transporting the L1 is not an issue, you could use your L1 as the "foldback" speaker and just tell the sound tech you don't need an on-stage monitor/foldback.

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