I DJ'ed an outdoor college spring fling dance today (450 students) and I am now so sold on this Bose system that I can't put it into words!
4 towers and 8 subs is simply a wall of sound.
I went out 400 feet and this system was still still rockin the house!
I was at 80 % volume and was hitting 117db's.
Mike

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U rock, Mike! Tell us more. I've never been out 400 feet at a live event, so I'd like to know what it sounded like out there. Also, how far away were people dancing? Were you in stereo? How wide was the audience? Any problems? Echoes off the buildings? You've really pushed the system to a new place and I think a lot of folks would like to know what you found. Please share.
Chris

(Edited to remove questions answered by replacement photos.)
All these pictures were shot one hour before the event start time.
They danced right in front but I was playing for the whole area also.
At 400 feet it was wedding reception volume
At 200 feet it was ACDC volume
At the stage I was looking for Robert Plant to show up!
I was looking for the top but never even came close.
I was running in stereo and only had a 16' stage.
The area was 600 feet wide and I had awesome sound everywhere.
Not once did I hit red.
I thought if a band can jam with 4 of these units then why not a DJ?
Mike
That is the SKB mini gig rig setting on a SKB roller amp rig.
Yes this is all my equipment.
I just had custom stage risers made for my Bose system so my next event like this I will be able to put a 15' gap between the left and right towers.
The bass was awesome in the whole area.
My settings are preset 00, low on remote @ 3 o'clock,master 12 o'clock,OL 2 o'clock and the rest @ 12 o'clock and my mixer runs flat with IMP pad's-20's installed at mixer.
My PS1's have the trim settings at 8,,,,I have perfect gain and without that this system will not perform as intended at these higher levels.
Last edited by vp
Cool pics!

A comment & a question:

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Early:
The XLR Y was used on each side at the end of my XLR cable but just before the first PS1 unit.

You could eliminate the "Y" by just taking the Line-out from the "inner" systems to the "outer" system (use the 5' cable you have in place now, just eliminate the Y). The only drawback is that the Trim on those "outer" systems would be different that on the "inner" systems to give the same volume.

Question: Did you get much in the way of phase cancellation out in the listening area? You are overlapping the sound field with two identically-driven towers. Outdoors, it might not be as much of an issue as it can be indoors (where reflections can make those "phase cancellations" worse).

One suggestion, when the location warrents it, might be to angle each pair of towers (on the same side) at ~45 degrees off center (in opposite directions, of course): That ought to both reduce the potential phase cancellation AND give you a wider field of coverage (e.g.: 260, rather than the nominal 170).
I use the Y's to have the exact same line level to each unit.
If I did it your way then there is a 4db kick to the next unit and I don't want that.
These PAS units don't suffer the phase cancellations like conventional speakers do.
I had confirmed this with 4 different Bose techs.
They all said to have at least a 4 foot gap between them.
I have heard nothing but great sound in this configuration.
You can use these systems any way you choose, but you can't change the laws of physics. Chris-at-Bose always says to just try it & listen. That's your best guide. Every situation is different, although there are some basic guidelines.

I think there probably was phase cancellation in several places in the audience, but no one knew that's what it was. YMMV.

Tom
Sorry to come off sort of belligerent, but I get frustrated when I see people not grasping the design & intent of this system. The forums have gone a long way to teaching the "proper" way to use these systems. I realize there are money constraints for everyone & many other variables that affect how people choose to use these. There are also exceptions to every situation as far as acoustics & dispersion, etc. Sometimes I think people use these systems in a different way just to prove something - what, I don't know. We are all individuals & like to arrive at good sound in our own way, but I still say you are inviting problems when you stray too far from the accepted way to use these & the accepted rules of sound reinforcement.

I apologize for my passion, but sometimes some of us have to say what's politically incorrect for the engineers at Bose to say.
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Early:
These PAS units don't suffer the phase cancellations like conventional speakers do.
I had confirmed this with 4 different Bose techs.
They all said to have at least a 4 foot gap between them.
I have heard nothing but great sound in this configuration.


Mike, who told you that 4 feet was the magic distance?

Chris-at-Bose, were you in on this?
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Early:
I'll take the 5th,,,,,,,sounds like you carry a gun!


Sorry, Mike. I'm just having a stressful day & am coming off very heavy handed. I should probably have just gone fishing, but I have several deadlines & I can't stay off the forum.

I really would like to know where you heard about the 4-foot rule. I've never seen that, & I'd like to get some real data. I'm hoping Chris or Hilmar might have some more concrete thoughts. I've a feeling it's not that cut & dried.
Hi Mike, Tom, jfc and others,
Sorry that I've taken a while to reply on this thread. My wife and I took a long weekend at our cabin in Maine--no internet access there. Ken and Tom sent emails to alert me, but I didn't see them until after I got back. And I needed to get my facts straight before making this long post. (always a good plan)

Let me summarize what I have heard so far. As jfc noticed, Mike's good experiences with four L1s in stereo are in contrast to our stated rule of avoiding distributing a single source to multiple L1s. And this rule also contradicts what Mike has heard from four Bose people, that it is okay to distribute to two speakers if you observe a 4 foot minimum spacing between them.

Let me tackle the "4 foot rule" first. Tom would like to know where this comes from. You may find the answer amusing. First of all, I found no reference to a 4 foot minimum spacing anywhere on the forum, other than in this thread, and it does not appear elsewhere on the Bose web site that I can find. So far, so good. But, by coincidence, the number is familiar to me in another context. More than 15 years ago, Ken and I worked in the installed sound part of Bose Pro. Dealers were beginning to hang clusters of multiple 402s, 802s, etc. because it saves them money to use fewer hang points. We were very concerned about coloration from interference, in other words the "phase cancellation" often referred to on the forums. (I don't like the term phase cancellation, but that's another story.) Ken and I decided that those speakers needed to be no less than 4 feet apart, or the amount of coloration would be unacceptable in some seats. This gradually became something of a standard distance, which is too bad, since it represents the worst coloration we were willing to tolerate. And I remind you that this rule applied to directional speakers aimed in different directions and falling off with distance at the normal 1/r^2 rate.

Interference between line arrays would be more severe. In fact, the current Bose design rules for installing MA12 line arrays recommend NOT putting them in the same cluster at all, ever. For distributed systems, they plan to recommend a spacing between line arrays of between 6 and 15 meters! (20-50 feet) So the amusing part is that the source of the "4 foot rule" appears to be Ken and me, although the rule was never meant to apply to line arrays. The four Bose people who told Mike that 4 feet was okay were "incompletely informed" and assumed that the rule we taught them applied to line arrays as well. I've spoken to our head of training for North American Pro to let him know that the curriculum needs to be more explicit that the spacing rules for line arrays are different, not 4 feet. (Mike, if you remember the names of any of the four folks you spoke with, please send me the names in a PM, so that I can be sure to teach them about the different rules for line arrays. No, they aren't in any trouble, Bose isn't that kind of workplace. Help me fix this if you can.)

So much for the 4 foot rule. It works for 802s and such, but it does NOT apply to line arrays. (All the way from Colorado, I can hear Tom breathing a sigh of relief. Smile But maybe now Mike is shifting from foot to foot? Frown )

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