How do people stop people falling over the ps1? Especially those people who insist on dancing backwards blindly. I've had to catch a few people so far, just like to know how people setup to avoid this, I've tried the L1 behind me to one side but its just too loud for me to handle all night, plus i like to have it up front with no obstructions, but cringe everytime people get near it. Barbed wire fence perhaps?

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I know some of you have adapted my system set-up where I utilize the Ultimate keyboard stand to set my cofuser on top of. I've stopped using that for just this reason.

Now what I do is set the PAS right in front of a banquet table, on which I set my confuser and mixing console. Under the table are the subwoofers. It protects the PAS in my opinion.

I had some dork literally slide across the dance floor and damage my PAS and ever since then I am more protective of it.

Of course when I had speakers on speaker stands before this I had people use them as arm rests and even knock them over, so it's not that this problem is unique to the PAS. It's just that there are a lot of people who don't think clearly out there.
about seven years ago, i had a drunk guy fall into my speaker..knocking it over... speaker smashed my wirless mic base unit....no damage to the speaker....didn't even stop playing. but it just missed my computer by inches. they gave me a $250 tip to help cover the costs of the damaged mic base.
just to clarify, these were old style speakers with stands.
Scott, you're lucky the speaker didn't fall on the guy. I live in California and I think we are lawsuit capitol of the world. I worry that something like that will happen at one of my events with my current setup. 2 15" Yamaha cabs sitting at the top of a speaker stand. I am less worried about the L1 hurting anyone but I suppose anything is possible.
This is my 1st post on here although I have known about this system for over a year (from Richard in New Zealand if anyone knows him Roll Eyes ) via a DJ Forum based in the UK. I've owned my own system for 2 months and here’s my possible solution to some of the small problems I found when it's used with a disco.

The problems:

My initial findings that the PS1 footprint was larger than expected were put into perspective when it was pointed out to me that it was smaller than a speaker stand and certainly no bigger than a bass bin. This is certainly true, however when the B1s are added the system does need more floor space. One problem I did find was at venues with limited space for the disco when I ended up placing the B1s behind my star cloth which I didn’t think was an ideal solution.

Another solution I tried when space was tight was to place the B1s straight on top of the PS1 and secure with Velcro through the handles. This worked but I thought that the vibrations going into the PS1 wouldn’t do it any good in the long term.

True the L1 was originally designed for bands/singers and would be located behind them. When the system is placed in the normal disco position other potential problems are evident:

The PS1s are low enough to present a trip hazard (they are strong enough to be stood on though)
They make attractive pole dancing props
The control panel at the rear becomes more exposed


So onto my latest idea which was to make a lightweight frame for the B1s to sit on - again my plan is to only use this when I don’t have enough space to spread things out.

The photos below show the unit after construction, before I coated it black, so that it’s easier to see (except for the last one). It took just under half an hour to make and weighs only a few hundred grams. I can post detailed measurements etc if anyone wants to know them


My B1 Stand - Mark 1


In position over the PS1


With the L1 & B1s in place


The rear control panel 'protected' by the B1s


The stand finished in 'Disco Black'
Paul,

Very cool - maybe it's the overall colour - nah - it is really cool.

I'd probably run a black strap through the handles of the B1s to try to diminish the likelihood that they might wander off the platform.


Half an hour to make? It takes me that long to make a decent snack.
You are right ST, the B1 stands are too cool.

I wonder if the sound from the L1 is significantly affected by the B1's being placed in such a manner, forming the narrow opening?

I am already imagining something on wheels (locking casters) that can be used to bring the gear in and then placed over the PS1. Slightly wider it could support a total of 4 B1's stacked two to the side.

I do like symmetry.

Oldghm
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Smith:
This is my 1st post on here although I have known about this system for over a year (from Richard in New Zealand if anyone knows him Roll Eyes ) via a DJ Forum based in the UK. I've owned my own system for 2 months and here’s my possible solution to some of the small problems I found when it's used with a disco.

Hi Paul
Great idea, are these foldable? Could supply the meauserments and the materials you used to make them?
Thanks
Rich Freeze

The problems:

My initial findings that the PS1 footprint was larger than expected were put into perspective when it was pointed out to me that it was smaller than a speaker stand and certainly no bigger than a bass bin. This is certainly true, however when the B1s are added the system does need more floor space. One problem I did find was at venues with limited space for the disco when I ended up placing the B1s behind my star cloth which I didn’t think was an ideal solution.

Another solution I tried when space was tight was to place the B1s straight on top of the PS1 and secure with Velcro through the handles. This worked but I thought that the vibrations going into the PS1 wouldn’t do it any good in the long term.

True the L1 was originally designed for bands/singers and would be located behind them. When the system is placed in the normal disco position other potential problems are evident:

The PS1s are low enough to present a trip hazard (they are strong enough to be stood on though)
They make attractive pole dancing props
The control panel at the rear becomes more exposed


So onto my latest idea which was to make a lightweight frame for the B1s to sit on - again my plan is to only use this when I don’t have enough space to spread things out.

The photos below show the unit after construction, before I coated it black, so that it’s easier to see (except for the last one). It took just under half an hour to make and weighs only a few hundred grams. I can post detailed measurements etc if anyone wants to know them

[img]http://f5.putfile.com/6/17816440718-thumb.jpg"> [/IMG]

My B1 Stand - Mark 1

[img]http://f5.putfile.com/6/17816424547-thumb.jpg"> [/IMG]

In position over the PS1

[img]http://f5.putfile.com/6/17816471658-thumb.jpg"> [/IMG]

With the L1 & B1s in place

[img]http://f5.putfile.com/6/17816503910-thumb.jpg"> [/IMG]

The rear control panel 'protected' by the B1s

[img]http://f5.putfile.com/6/17816491787-thumb.jpg"> [/IMG]

The stand finished in 'Disco Black'
Firstly my apologies for messing up the image transfer and thanks to ST for sorting it out - I couldn't find a button to preview the post before submission (I'm one of those people that when all else fails I read the instructions Red Face)

Hopefully after following STs advice I've sorted it although having them follow a post later does keep that suspense factor Smile

To answer the questions that have already been asked:

Sound - I've only used this in locations where the system wasn't even at half power due to the size of the venue so the effect on the sound wasn't even noticable.

Materials - the stand is made from 25mm right angled aluminium (I say Al U Min Ium you say A Lum In Um Big Grin )

Measurements 2 X 2 metre lengths are required and from each cut 1 X 700mm, 2 X 170mm and 2 X 460mm this then gives you 10 pieces and a small offcut. My apologies if you require this in feet & inches but my new tape measure only had the metric markings on it.

Construction I fixed mine together using rivets (3 at each corner and 2 for each middle cross member) - now after making it I did think that if I omitted one rivet from each leg they could then be folded flat to make it even easier to transport and I will try this soon (a Mk II version).

In Use Again this was only in small venues where there wasn't room to spread the B1s out and where the PS1 could be vulnerable. I was pleased with the way they stood up to the task - even when a videoographer choose to put his foot on a (raised) B1 to steady himself whilst he filmed - until he saw my glare that was Mad Something that I read on another thread and indeed I've experienced myself, is a tendancy for the B1s to wander on a wooden floor when the bass is pumping. Because the stand (ST1 Smile) is fairly tight fitting to the PS1 this doesn't happen.

Thanks for your time because I do have a habit of going on a bit (a bit Roll Eyes) one last thing - the finish is simply Gaffa (Duck) tape
quote:
I'd by 4 from you!


To be honest I'm not trying to market these - it was just an idea I had that seems to work and they are really simple to make so I thought I'd share it with you all.

Once the planning and measurements were taken care of it took under 30 minutes to cut the aluminium, drill holes and rivet all the bits together.

The only tools required are a tape measure, hack-saw, file, drill with 3mm bit and a hand rivet gun.
quote:
I'd like to do something similar, but with both of the B1s behind the L1 but still above the control panel of the PS1.


Hi Richard just slide the 'ST1' backwards. I've used mine 5 times now and I can't say that I've noticed any adverse effect with the sound although I do only use it at smaller venues when I don't have room to spread things out and where the system is never above half power.
Paul Smith is a genius in my opinion since he has solved several problems with one invention.

The B1 riser is exactly what I want for systems.

I've been placing my B-1's on the PS-1 base on each side of the pole mostly because I like the look and it does save space but I do worry a bit about vibration even though we've been told this shouldn't affect the PS-1's at all.

We all worry about the back area of the PS-1 being vulnerable to spills from open containers or heaven forbid a sprinkler system that wasn't programmed to be shut off during a performance.

So I suggest that Paul's B1 stand could be extended 6 inches or so to the rear to cover the connections entirely. A 4" to 6" thin piece of wood or plastic could offer protection from the potential spills and would also help hide the messy tangle of cords. Even with that attached to the angle iron it could still be designed to fold nearly flat.

I did hate the fact I had a bunch of cords showing at first but later I relaxed when I figured for the majority of the time of performance it's all in the dark! Nobody sees the cords anyway but it is unsightly during daylight or early stages of events.

My friend can make these for me and if anyone wants a set made when he makes mine please let me know. They will be portable, which means they'll fold down to nearly flat (maybe 3 or 4 inches thick for transport) and very light.

The angle iron is actually light weight aluminum but is very sturdy when used for this type of application. The legs will fold down and up with the touch of a finger.

I'm offering this only because Paul said he wasn't interested in making them in bulk.

If we have enough orders I think we could give everybody a great deal. Cost of materials plus a little for our time making them and of course S & H.
email me if you're interested at:
gpledger@sprynet.com

Later,
Gary
Again, I'm not trying to steal Phil's idea and I just really want to help solve a problem we've all been working on...protecting the back side of the PS-1's and for me in particular raising the B1's off the PS-1 securely.

The original pics and measurements show the B1 platform can be scooted back a few inches to protect the cord area. I'm adding at least 4 inches to the platform so that the B1's can be out front of the L1's. And we will be making the legs foldable so that the light weight aluminum platform can be stored easily(flat) and set up quickly. They will be painted flat black and the feet will be rubber protected, waxed or just smoothly rounded..we'll see what works best.

We'll be cutting the aluminum this week so to save costs it would help to know how many are interested in placing an order.

The final product will elevate your B1's above the PS1's minimizing space & enhancing the look of your system, plus protect the back of the PS1's while allowing for true airflow by not not blocking the amps cooling fans.

Cost will be minimal...material and time spent plus shipping and handling. Maybe $25.00 per unit...we'll see what it works out to be....

I'm only making 2 for myself but why not help out my Bose Bros......

Serious inquiries can be made by calling or emailing me at either (432)520-0860 or gpledger@sprynet.com
Later
Gary
Hello Pat:

I have to work around my friends schedule since he has the tools and does the welding etc.
So I have to be patient. It might take a week or 2 but we should have the prototypes done by then.
So far 7 people have shown interest for a total of 16 stands and I haven't posted this anywhere else yet.
Once the first 2 are done we'll know what the cost needs to be. The aluminum costs more than I thought and my friend has to get something for his time. If we can build them without welding I'll be able to do them myself in his shop.
I'll keep everyone posted by email on any progress made!
Thanks,
Gary
Paul : Very ingenius design. Nicely done.

Time for a BOSE engineer to step in and respond?

How much bass response and bass volume (mathematical and perceived) is being lost by:
a) a 12" separation of two B1s;
b) not having the B1s on the floor;
c) not stacking the B1s on top of each other?

Also, it was observed that the B1s in the final picture are "cupping" the bottom of the radiators by 18" tall and about 6" deep. What effect does this have on propagation, dispersion, reflection, and possible feedback problems if the mic is being fed through the mixer instead of a direct input into the I/O panel of the PS1?
quote:
Paul : Very ingenius design. Nicely done

Thanks Cap and can I return the compliments and tell you that I enjoyed listening to your interview on DJA radio Smile

I have tested this using the most accurate sound measuring device known to man - my ears Roll Eyes

Last week I used the stand at one gig and the next night was able to place the B1s on the floor (stage). For the second gig I had to eq the bass higher. A real test would be to try the 2 options in the same venue but my main reason for building it was to overcome the other possible problems of trip hazard, pole dancing and to protect the control panel.

Even if it does adversely effect the output by a small percentage the sound is so good that it'll still be great

Gary - the one I did was assembled using rivets rather than welding and has been strong enough so far, even when a videographer placed his foot on top of a B1 to steady himself (his stitches come out next week Big Grin)

In it's current design each leg has 2 rivets but I am thinking of drilling one out so that the legs can fold down for transportation - the ST1 MkII deluxe!!
Paul : There's no doubting trusting one's ears. BOSE L1s count on that over specs.

Nonetheless, it wouldn't hurt to "hear" from "the Design Boys" to see what effect your design has, may have, or won't have.

If none, may I order 4 please?

(Thanks for the interview nod. Bill Hermann made it simple with his easy style of Q & A.)
think that's a very cool idea, congratulations !
Acoustically there shouldn't be any problems or any significant difference two stacking two B1's on the side. As a rule of thumb, as long as the acoustic centers (and the follow) are closer as a quarter wave length at the highest frequency of interest, the exact location doesn't make much difference. For the B1 that comes out to 16" or thereabouts so your ingenious setup should work great.

To take the questions in detail

quote:

a) a 12" separation of two B1s;

As pointed out above that will not result in a significant difference.

quote:

b) not having the B1s on the floor;

In the extreme case, that would loose 6 dB, which is a fairly sizeable difference. "Extreme" in this case means that the B1s are somehow suspended in free air with no reflecting surface nearby, but that's a fairly unrealistic scenario. Lifting the B1 by a few inches doesn't really make much of a difference.
However, wall-loading does make a difference. We assume that the "normal" case is on the floor (within a few inches) and relatively close to one wall (within a couple of feet), either a side wall or a rear wall. If you are far away from any wall, you will have to turn up the bass a little and if you are in a corner you may have to turn it down somewhat.
moving the B1s into a corner will gain you up to 6 dB more bass.

quote:

c) not stacking the B1s on top of each other?

Again, no problems as long as they are not too far apart (16" or less).

Please be aware that the 16" is not some magical hard number. If the B1's are further apart you may experience some power loss or interference at a few spots in the audience, but nothing drastic. Only at about 6 feet or up you'll find that the overall radiate power has dropped by 3 dB, which is certainly noticebale but not a dramatic change either.

Hope that helps

Hilmar
It would be cool if that B1 riser could somehow be built into the PS1 top case... somehow mould in suspension mount corners to hold up 2 B1s.

Existing L1 users could opt for an upgrade that changes the top half of the PS1 case to the upgraded B1 mount version.

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