Hi BZG,


Thanks for using The Sketcher!


This is just a quick note to send you a link to your Sketch in case you want to review it, edit it, or share it with others.


 
-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Quoting BZG from The Sketcher
Hello, We would like to run everything thru our new Bose system, although it only has the 4 inputs. Is there a device that we can increase that number of inputs? Also, our acoustic guitar player uses an amp beside him. Do we need that signal into the Bose system? Does he need his separate amp? We use a cardioid mic center stage for harmony vocals and to pick up other performers who may also sing. Speaking of that mic, can you recommend a good (not the best) mic that has a pretty good dynamic range without causing feedback into the Bose tower? Thanks much for your help. Jim

Attachments

Photos (1)
Original Post

Hi Jim,

Bose has two ToneMatch mixers: T4S and T8S.

Please tell us more about your music:

  • What kind(s) of music you play?
  • Where you do it (size, type of venue)?
  • Who is there (audience) - how many?
  • What are they doing while you are performing?
  • Do you have a website? If no website,  please post a picture of your ensemble.
  • Please list all your sound sources (make/model of the microphones too please)

 
Thank you. 

ST

Hello ST... We are a 3 piece acoustic group, with a fourth vocalist, playing mostly bluegrass and folk. We have played in bars, churches, private parties inside and outside, just about anywhere. Guitar is a Martin 6 string wireless output into a pedal array, then into his small amp, then jumped into the T1.  Banjo is 5 string, usually played into a shure 57, but can use an on-board DPA4099. Bass guy switches from electric to doghouse depending on his whims. Both basses use a 1/4 to 1/4 wire direct into the T1. We occasionally add a 4th musician, a fiddle or mandolin player who have their own pickups and DI's with XLR outputs. So at times, we can get by with only 4 inputs, and sometimes need 6, which the T1 does not have. The cardioid center mic is a samson CO3 I think. The other vocal mic is a Shure 58 knock-off, as are the Shure 57's. We "wish" we had a really good center stage mic that 3-4 of us could sing into at times.

Our audience can vary from 20 to 100. Except for church gigs, the audience is generally engaged in other activities such a socializing. We do NOT put on "shows". No website, but here is a shot of our group yesterday... Note, we did not use the Samson mic due to feedback in that space.

Hope you can help us with suggestions or ideas. This Bose system is new to us.

Jim

Attachments

Photos (1)

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the clarification about your L1, and all the other information.

I updated your Sketch.


 
-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Quoting BZG from The Sketcher
Hello, We would like to run everything thru our new Bose system, although it only has the 4 inputs. Is there a device that we can increase that number of inputs?
I'll address that below.
Also, our accoustic guitar player uses an amp beside him. Do we need that signal into the Bose system?
You don't need that signal connected to the Bose system but if you have more channels then yes, I would.
Does he need his separate amp?
If you connect the acoustic guitar directly to the Bose system
  • You don't need the separate amp but the guitar player may prefer the sound of the amp for monitoring.
  • The guitar will have the same sound dispersion as the vocals. That's a good thing.
    • Most guitar amps are directional. What you hear off to the sides is different from what you hear in front of the amp.  If you play through the Bose system, the sound dispersion is much more even from side to side compared to a guitar amp.
We use a cardiod mic center stage for harmony vocals and to pick up other performers who may also sing. Speaking of that mic, can you recommend a good (not the best) mic that has a pretty good dynamic range without causing feedback into the bose tower? Thanks much for your help. Jim
For best results in a live setting you want a vocal microphone for each singer/talker. Ideally the microphones will have a supercardioid or hypercardioid polar pattern (these are both highly directional). This means they are easier to manage to avoid feedback.
There are lots of good (not the best?) microphones with supercardioid or hypercardioid polar pattern polar patterns and they don't have to cost a lot of money.  Here are some examples (don't take these as endorsements)
Since you mentioned feedback - please see this article for lots of information and tips.
Responding to your second post.
Jim posted:

Hello ST... We are a 3 piece acoustic group, with a fourth vocalist, playing mostly bluegrass and folk.

We have played in bars, churches, private parties inside and outside, just about anywhere.

  • Guitar is a Martin 6 string wireless output into a pedal array, then into his small amp, then jumped into the T1. 
  • Banjo is 5 string, usually played into a shure 57, but can use an on-board DPA4099.
  • Bass guy switches from electric to doghouse depending on his whims. Both basses use a 1/4 to 1/4 wire direct into the T1.
  • We occasionally add a 4th musician, a fiddle or mandolin player who have their own pickups and DI's with XLR outputs.

This is terrific information. Everything you have mentioned should work fine.

As I mentioned above, the guitar player can use his amp or not. That's personal preference and as long has he keeps the amp volume low, it shouldn't cause any problems. If he turns it up, the sound of the amp will leak into the vocal microphones.

For the banjo, I'd use the DPA4099 because it's onboard (and a great microphone).  Being onboard, it's probably closer than the Shure SM57 (better for feedback), and it should be at a constant distance. The banjo player may be moving in and out from the Shure SM57 microphone for dynamics. That's fine or it could mean your settings for the Shure SM57 leave you vulnerable to feedback.

So at times, we can get by with only 4 inputs, and sometimes need 6, which the T1 does not have.

You've got several ways to add more channels. In order of simplicity:

  • Replace your T1 (4 channels) with a Bose T8S (8 channels)
    • If you keep the T1, you can use them together and have 12 channels, but for what you're doing, the T8S should be able to handle everything.
  • Add a Bose T4S (4 channels). Your L1 Model II supports to mixers.
  • Add a a small third party mixer instead of a T4S
    • Connect the T1 as usual
    • Connect the third party mixer to T1 channel 4/5
      • To get 6 channels total, the third party mixer must have at least three inputs


Using a T8S is the simplest solution because

  • If you can use a T1, you can use a T8S
  • You have only one mixer (compared to adding a T4S to your T1)



Adding a T4S will also work. It's as easy to use as the T1 but you'll be working with two mixers (T1 and T4S). That's not hard. I used to do that with two T1s before I got a T8S.



  • The cardioid center mic is a samson CO3 I think.
  • The other vocal mic is a Shure 58 knock-off, as are the Shure 57's.
  • We "wish" we had a really good center stage mic that 3-4 of us could sing into at times.

I would take that off the wish list.  PA system feedback is almost always related to the distance between the sound source and the microphone.  In order to have 3-4 of you singing into the same microphone you'd all have to be farther from that microphone than you are from the individual microphones you use now.  For controlling feedback In live sound settings individual pickups and microphones are much easier to manage than a single microphone for several people.



Our audience can vary from 20 to 100. Except for church gigs, the audience is generally engaged in other activities such a socializing. We do NOT put on "shows". No website, but here is a shot of our group yesterday...

You're a great looking crew.

Note, we did not use the Samson mic due to feedback in that space.

Hope you can help us with suggestions or ideas. This Bose system is new to us.

Jim

Does that help?
ST

Attachments

Photos (1)

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
Having trouble signing in?

We recently updated our sign-in procedure and if you have old sign-in data cached, this can create a problem. Please:

  1. Clear your browser cache and cookies
  2. Then close the browser (not just the window)
  3. Open the browser and try again
Thank you

Please make sure that your profile is up to date
×
×
×
×