L1 Model II

Let's talk about the L1® Portable Line Array Systems

Using proprietary Bose® technology, L1 systems combine  PA and monitors into a single, highly portable unit. The  loudspeaker can be positioned behind or to the side —and you hear what the audience hears.

Highly portable PA and monitor combined for solo performers, DJs and general-purpose use. Fixed vertical control with 180° horizontal coverage Reduced vulnerability to feedback.

Three systems to choose from (Compact, Model 1S, Model II)
Two passive bass module options (B1 or B2)
Consistent coverage and tonal balance, portability and easy setup.

The Compact and the Porchboard, can it ever work?

Hi Ken-at-Bose,

After reading your post here, I had to do some more work with the PB and Compact.
Many have said the Porchboard is "passable" with the Compact, it's a thud, not a boom, I agree, but still want that boom.

So first, I reviewed the 3-position contour switch on my version of the Porchboard.
The other two positions available though, are both bass roll-offs from the basic, lowest thump.
It didn't help.

But this got me thinking about hooking up my Roland drum module, direct in, as well as in-line between the Porchboard and the Compact.
The ability to add a bass drum sample to the blend with the porchboard was good in theory, but not in practice.

The results were okay, but sounded like a thin version of a digital sampled kick, which is what it was.
EQ, muffling, and tuning tweaks did little to improve it much (but did a little bit).

When blended with the Porchboard, the Roland was not complimentary to acoustic music, too fabricated, less real.
The Porchboard alone still sounded better by itself, more ambiguous, less of a kick drum, more of a pulse.
If it had sounded better, I would include the Roland in my acoustic setup, but with this result, it's not really worth the extra gear.

I wonder what the crew at Porchboard think about this, and if there might in fact be something they could do?
Has anyone been in contact with them about the Compact?
I will drop them a line.

Continuing on, I hooked up a Packlite and a B1 to the output of the Compact, no improvement really.
But after that, I just ran the Porchboard direct into the Packlite with the B1, and it sounded great!

I've been afraid to try this as there is no volume control between the PB and the A1, but it was fine.
Really slamming on the Porchboard did cause the Red LED to come on, but that was extreme, and more than I'd normally do.
A Packlite and a B1 is not that that much more gear to take to an acoustic session.

Adding a T1 to the setup is more gear than I wanted to get into, but rethinking it all makes quite a bit of sense now.
The T1 could go Main Out to the Compact for extra inputs, and the Porchboard could go Aux out to the Packlite & B1(s).
Problem solved without too much gear.

Only thing for me is, If I'm taking the T1, A1, and B1s, and running the sound...why not just take the Model II?

This reminds me of what Oldghm said a while back about thinking that the Model II is "too much trouble" after experiencing the Compact.
Are we spoiled or what?
Original Post
quote:
Only thing for me is, If I'm taking the T1, A1, and B1s, and running the sound...why not just take the Model II?


My point exactly. If the T1, MII and B1's sound great and you already own them, why would I play around with other stuff.

I am sorry guys, if you own a L1 MII, T1, with 2 B1's and you want to use a PorchBoard, why would you even mess with the L1C. You know it will sound good with the MII and have plenty of reserve, plus give you the Bass response you are looking for.
Why do we keep trying to justify uses for something the L1c was not designed for?

From what I can figure out here, the various models in the L1 series, have a price, sound and performance level that makes a lot of sense for what they are designed for, why do people want to push them outside of that environment?
Even more so some complain that the $1000. model does not sound as good as the one for $3400. Imagine that.
Hey there Drumr Pete,

I've tried the same combinations of things and come to the same conclusion. I can't get a satisfying kick drum-ish thump from the PorchBoard through Compact. But I *can* get a good resounding higher-end thud. Better than tapping my foot on the floor anyway.

I've gotten so used to that super subtle but powerful thump from the PorchBoard through the Classic or Model II (with a B1 or two) that the Compact was suffering by comparison.

I think that our applications are different. I'm not really trying to replace a Kick Drum. I am trying to add some rhythm to my songs especially because I'm not a strummer. But if I can put the Classic/ModelII/B1 sound out of my head, the PorchBoard + Compact sound does serve the purpose of helping me keep the beat.

So if I'm solo, I can use the PorchBoard and have it help me to establish and keep the beat.

If I'm in a duo or larger group then I'm probably using my T1® so I could run an Aux out to a PackLite and a B1 or two, or I could just connect the PorchBoard to a nearby Classic/Model I/Model II.

If I need more than the Compact can deliver then I'll run the Model II and all the rest of this conversation goes away.
Hi Joel,

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

quote:
Originally posted by Joelheck:
quote:
Only thing for me is, If I'm taking the T1, A1, and B1s, and running the sound...why not just take the Model II?


My point exactly. If the T1, MII and B1's sound great and you already own them, why would I play around with other stuff.


Like Drumr Pete, (and you too?) I've got all the pieces and I'm trying them in different ways to figure out various applications.

quote:

I am sorry guys, if you own a L1 MII, T1, with 2 B1's and you want to use a PorchBoard, why would you even mess with the L1C.


One of reasons that the Compact is SO attractive is because it works really well and I can load in, in half the time. If I could only have one system, undoubtedly it would be the Model II with T1® and a couple B1s and a PackLite and two more B1s. I could make that work anywhere.
quote:

You know it will sound good with the MII and have plenty of reserve, plus give you the Bass response you are looking for.
Why do we keep trying to justify uses for something the L1c was not designed for?


The Compact is light enough that I don't worry about the carbon footprint of leaving it in the car all the time. If I get invited to join someone for a set or a song, I can be set up and ready to go in a minute or two, and have my L1® sound and a line out if necessary. So of course I wish that I could get the PorchBoard to work with the Compact. The PorchBoard is an almost indispensable part of my solo show.
quote:


From what I can figure out here, the various models in the L1 series, have a price, sound and performance level that makes a lot of sense for what they are designed for, why do people want to push them outside of that environment?


Part of this experimentation for me, is to find the limitations in each environment so we can understand those limitations, and maybe even find some useful ways to expand our perceptions of what can and will work.

quote:

Even more so some complain that the $1000. model does not sound as good as the one for $3400. Imagine that.


No fear, I'm not complaining about the Compact, but I am talking out loud as I think about it, use it, and sometimes push the boundaries to understand those boundaries better.
I recently added an L1c to my family of two Classics and have been using mostly for sax reinforcement in our seven piece all-Bose powered band with succesful results. We are presently "on vacation" for a few weeks this summer. Being a bassist and singer, and being in a down time for any acoustic work, I decided to hook up the Compact to my family room TV. It's positioned on the floor next to a very solid, 20" high and 15" deep solid wood TV stand. After connecting it and listening for a few days, it seems to me that the apparent bass response is better than when the Compact is standing in free space. Logically, this phenomenon makes sense and I've been enjoying listening to my new Bose home theater!!!
I've also been following the Compact-related threads especially ST's and Drumr's testing and am wondering whether anyone else has noticed the effect described above and whether this effect could be used in a live setting. It won't change the frequency response of the system, but might help some applications such as the use of a Porchboard or tablas mentioned in another post.
Hi Tom,

Interesting thought.

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Munch:
You could always go back to wrapping a 58 in a sock & toe tapping on that. ;-)


Always willing to revisit old ideas, I just tried this. The PorchBoard through the Compact sounds deeper more satisfying than the SM 58 wrapped in a sock. Besides, I had to use an impedance matching transformer to get the SM 58 to work in Compact Channel 2.
quote:
You could always go back to wrapping a 58 in a sock & toe tapping on that. ;-)


Ok, Guys you're right. Without you (Sons of the Pioneers) out there checking things out and posting the results, there would not be such a vast frame of reference as to what does and does not work. Many thanks to all the questions and contributions from these postings.

I am amazed that we haven't heard from AJ yet, defending his poor SM58 from being stuck in a sock and stomped on all night. LOL
Hi Folks,

Did some more experimenting and revisited some of Drumr Pete's ideas.


If I was willing to bring PackLite® Extended Bass Package (PackLite® amp + two B1 Bass Modules) to a gig I would plug the PorchBoard directly into the Packlite®.

Add a T1®
If I was bringing the T1® anyway then I would route the PorchBoard through the T1® adding zEQ, ParaEQ and KickGate effect. Then send that through the Aux output to the Packlite®

Summary of what I heard...

Best
PorchBoard → T1® Channel 4 with zEQ, ParaEQ, and KickGate 1
Route Channel 4 to Aux.
T1® Aux Output to Packlite® → 2 × B1

For the PorchBoard sound, this was comparable to using a full sized L1® with T1® effects to really push the bottom end.

Good
PorchBoard → to Packlite® → 2 × B1

For the PorchBoard sound, this was comparable to using a full sized L1® with no additional Bass boost. This is actually how I usually run the PorchBoard. It was similar to running it directly to the Model II Analog input, or a Classic/Model I Channel 3 or 4. I do this all the time.

EDIT Neil-at-Bose gave us some new information that the Compact Channel 2 ToneMatch switch changes the Line Out so I went back and did some more testing.

I can confirm that if you run the PorchBoard direct to one of the Compact Channel 2 RCA inputs, you will get that full PorchBoard sound if you run the line out to a PackLite with two B1s. It feels a little lighter though - perhaps because I am hearing more in the 60 Hz range with the Compact output in addition to the B1s.


I also realized that I must have done my testing with the T1® with the Compact Channel 2 ToneMatch® switch engaged.


Not Much Difference
With or without the T1®, for the sound of the PorchBoard, I am not hearing a lot of difference to the Compact when I add
Compact Line-Out to Packlite® → 2 × B1
I preferred the sound when I was NOT running the PorchBoard through the Compact via the Line-Out.
Hi Ken,

quote:
Originally posted by Ken-at-Bose:
It's too bad the Porchboard couldn't be tuned up a bit in pitch. I think if it were it would sound great through the Compact.

Ken


Some models of the PorchBoard have a three position switch (H / M / L) and this changes the pitch. "H" is more like a tap than a thump. "L" is a thump when using a full sized L1®.

The PorchBoard is okay with the Compact, but not as deep as it is with the Classic / Model I / Model II.

If I wasn't used to using with the other models, I think I could be quite happy with the PorchBoard and the Compact. But I am not actually trying to replace a Kick Drum sound. I'm just trying add some rhythmic support.

Question for you Ken:

Does the Compact line-out pass through frequencies below 65 Hz (if they are present at the source) or is it high-pass above 65 Hz?
Hi Oldghm,

quote:
Originally posted by Oldghm:
Drumr, ST,

Are either of you attempting to use Para EQ to enhance the Porchboard?

I recently used the Porchboard with Compact in a large (80 X 100 ft.) space and it was very effective. Not as loud or full as a couple of B1s, but effective.

O..


Was that a quiet concert setting or...? I am sure that it was effective, but I suspect that's because when you play, people listen.

Yes, I have tried using the ParaEQ (and zEQ and KickGate) to enhance the sound of the PorchBoard. And yes, it gets a little deeper. And yes, this will work for me solo in smaller spaces. What I hear is more of a deep tap rather than a thump. I agree, it's more satisfying with some help from the T1®. This is not a big deal anyway because.

If I am solo - I might just run Compact without the T1®.

If I am playing with someone else, then I will definitely bring the T1®, but all of my duo partners have full sized L1®s. So I would probably run the PorchBoard into my partner's L1®.

I haven't tried the Compact in a space as large as you described. I was in a space that large recently, but I took the Model II just to be safe. I'll bring the Compact next time.
Hi ST,

I would not consider the gig a concert type of atmosphere, but it was a respectful audience, and some were talking at normal volume. I was not competing with loud voices.

I have tried both accenting frequencies from 70hz and up, and cutting frequencies from 65hz and down. With some careful tweaking one can get more volume without peaking the Compact input and without any unnatural sound from the speaker.

Though the sound is different, overall, the result is about the same as far as audience response is concerned, whether I use the Compact or a B1 equipped L1.

For some reason I think the larger the space the more bass you get from the Compact. I had it cranked earlier today, outside. I feel sure it was heard a long way away, and I was pleasantly surprised as I walked around listening to a friend, who likes a lot of bass, wail away on acoustic guitar with the bass all the way up.

O..
Let me try and clarify..

If the Tonematch switch is engaged on Channel II then sources connected to the 1/4" input will not pass anything below 60Hz out of the line outputs. This does not apply to the 1/8" and RCA inputs which will pass information down to 30Hz through the line outputs regardless of where the ToneMatch switch is positioned. If the ToneMatch switch is set to line level sources connected to the 1/4" input will also pass information down to 30Hz through the line outputs.

Please forgive my reference to twiddler (which is how we sometimes refer to the loudspeaker array internally)and bass equalizers as they are not helpful in explaining operation.

Thanks Neil

Edited for clarity by Neil-at-Bose
Neil-at-Bose gave us some new information that the Compact Channel 2 ToneMatch switch changes the Line Out so I went back and did some more testing.

I can confirm that if you run the PorchBoard direct to one of the Compact Channel 2 RCA inputs, you will get that full PorchBoard sound if you run the line out to a PackLite with two B1s. It feels a little lighter though - perhaps because I am hearing more in the 60 Hz range with the Compact output in addition to the B1s.


I also realized that I must have done my testing with the T1® with the Compact Channel 2 ToneMatch switch engaged.

I have edited my post above to reflect this new information.
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Munch:
Maybe I'll try a 58 into an Earthworks Kickpad into the Compact. That might sound right.

The Porchboard is actually a little low for my taste. I might even try micing a board & tapping with leather-soled shoes.


Bonjour messieurs,

Here is an interesting contribution from Reso_Ralph (11Dec08); they have built their own "stompbox" with a case lid and microphone.

________________________________________________

Reso_Ralph Posted 11 Dec 2008 12:21
Hi, we checked out the Ellis stompbox. It is quite ok for what it is, a small piece of wood with built in guitar pickup. The porchboard, of course, has a much deeper and bigger sound. But IMHO all of the ready-to-buy stompboxes lack vividness, they sound kind of "dead". We built our own stompbox using a case lid and put a small and high quality bass drum mic underneath (Shure Beta 91). If you go with this setup into the BOSE you can get it all: From soft stomping sound to fat bass drum ... It's great! We can't live without the stompbox no more. It gives us beat and groove. Check out our site and listen to some of the songs (if you don't like the songs, son't mind, you will like the stomping sound, I am sure). Keep on stomping! Ralph www.blissnblue.com

Posts: 166 | Location: Munich / Germany | Registered: Mon October 16 2006
_________________________________________________

Cheers,
quote:
Neil-at-Bose gave us some new information that the Compact Channel 2 ToneMatch switch changes the Line Out so I went back and did some more testing.
I can confirm that if you run the PorchBoard direct to one of the Compact Channel 2 RCA inputs, you will get that full PorchBoard sound if you run the line out to a PackLite with two B1s. It feels a little lighter though - perhaps because I am hearing more in the 60 Hz range with the Compact output in addition to the B1s.

Hi ST,
Thanks for doing this...I just hooked mine up this way (but without the T1) too, and it sounds way better now, using the RCA input.
I hear what you mean though about the 60Hz range still coming from the Compact and blending with the B1.
I like the PB sound better without that added 60hz.

So it looks like when using the Compact, the best way to accommodate the Porchboard will be to bring the T1, A1, and B1 (OR a Model II powerstand & B1), and not use the Compact in the signal chain at all. It's still not a lot of gear, and the sound is the best.

Thanks again for all your time spent on this.

P
Hey Pete,
quote:
Originally posted by Drumr:
quote:
Neil-at-Bose gave us some new information that the Compact Channel 2 ToneMatch switch changes the Line Out so I went back and did some more testing.
I can confirm that if you run the PorchBoard direct to one of the Compact Channel 2 RCA inputs, you will get that full PorchBoard sound if you run the line out to a PackLite with two B1s. It feels a little lighter though - perhaps because I am hearing more in the 60 Hz range with the Compact output in addition to the B1s.

Hi ST,
Thanks for doing this...I just hooked mine up this way (but without the T1) too, and it sounds way better now, using the RCA input.
I hear what you mean though about the 60Hz range still coming from the Compact and blending with the B1.
I like the PB sound better without that added 60hz.

So it looks like when using the Compact, the best way to accommodate the Porchboard will be to bring the T1, A1, and B1 (OR a Model II powerstand & B1), and not use the Compact in the signal chain at all. It's still not a lot of gear, and the sound is the best.

Thanks again for all your time spent on this.

P

Any time.

I'm getting used to the PorchBoard with the Compact. It only suffers by comparison, but it still works for me. If I really need more, I think I'll either

  • bring just a Model II and T1®
  • bring the Compact and PackLite® (PackLite® amp + one or two B1 Bass Modules)
    and run the Compact through the T1® with EQ and Preset KickGateout to the Aux and directly to the A1 (bypassing the Compact completely).
quote:
If I really need more, I think I'll either


* bring just a Model II and T1®
* bring the Compact and PackLite® (PackLite® amp + one or two B1 Bass Modules)
and run the Compact through the T1® with EQ and Preset KickGateout to the Aux and directly to the A1 (bypassing the Compact completely).

Exactly!
That's the ticket.

BTW, I can't tell much difference when using the KickGate on the Porchboard.
The envelope is so fast and round that the gate doesn't seem to cut anything off.
Or maybe it's the room ambiance that I'm hearing, not the note.
Hi Downtown Freddy Brown,

quote:
Originally posted by Downtown Freddy Brown:
What if you used the L1 Compact for the guitar and mic as normal and ran the Porchboard thru a small bass amp. I have both a 50w and a 100w bass amp and when I'm playing bass guitar I find the 50w really kicks and it's about the size of a B1.


Try it.

If you like it, be sure to tell us what kind of amp it is.

For me, I'm fine with the PorchBoard and the Compact. I don't need to haul around another amp although I do have a Gallien Krueger MBS150 I could use.
I still do not own a Porchboard and I live in Canada so I can't even go look at one let alone try it out. It sounds like what I'm looking for but to order it and return it if it wasn't working out would cost the shipping both ways and the brokerage & duty at the border. BTW both my bass amps are Yorkville (Canadian of course LOL)amps.
quote:
Originally posted by Downtown Freddy Brown:
I still do not own a Porchboard...It sounds like what I'm looking for but to order it and return it if it wasn't working out would cost the shipping both ways and the brokerage & duty at the border.

At a grand, most lightweight items like the Compact ship free.
I doubt you'd be returning it either.
Even though it's not as useful for a drummer, it's still something I'm very happy to have invested in.
It works great for any of my gigs that don't require *bassy* (gtr or drum) type amplification.

Like right now, the wife and I are out on the back patio with the laptops and the Compact.
It's a bright, bright, sun shiny day.
[/QUOTE]
Bonjour Freddie,

I took a chance and bought the PorchBoard Bass I found on Ebay. I am beginning to "tame" it. I was a bit underwhelmed when I first tried it since I didn't really know what to expect, other than the fact that many contributors swore by it.

It does add a dimension to the music that makes it more complete, "rounder". It's not an overpowering sound but you feel there is something missing when you stop it.

Send me a note next time you are in the Montreal area and you could try it out. I have the L1 model II with T1 Tonematch and one B1. If you want to try it with a L1 Compact, you would have to either bring your own or we could go to the store.

Cheers'
Thanks ST. Sounds to me like it would be worthwhile to get a Porchboard, probably one that splits. I'm still waiting to here back from Enroute. I sent an email Saturday. I want to get an idea (in CDN funds) exactly how much $299 plus shipping and handling is. Things are tight right now so I may not be able to swing it. I just got the Compact so I have to recover from that first. FYI $999 USD up here from the store was $1200 CDN
I have used a small tabourine on the end of the porchboard, and it worked pretty well. (sometimes it got lost).

Now I use a Roland TD3 sound module triggered by the Porchboard.
I plug the Porchboard into #3 input on the T1, and line out from #3 to the TD3. The line out of the TD3 goes to channel 4 on the T1. That way I can play whatever sound I have selected on the TD3 (usually tambourine), or the Porchboard, or both by toggeling the T1 mute buttons on and off. The individual mute buttons are one of the features I like best about the T1.

Respect,
Col. Andy
A tambourine can cut thru anything it seems no matter how loud it is. I have a Tam hooked up to a bass drum pedal for my left foot, PB on the right. I took the beater off of the pedal and hit the Tam just with the rod. Works great but man it's a lot of thinking, playing guitar, singing, PB, Tam. Trying to work the harp in there to but my brain hurts to much.
ST,
Sorry if I missed this, can you please tell me what kind of cable you are using to connect your Porchboard to your Compact?

Also, if you run your Porchboard through the RCA inputs, how can you control the Volume of the Porchboard relative to the guitar?

Sorry if both of these have been addressed. I quickly read through the posts and didn't see that info.

Thanks!
Matt
Hi Matt,

I happened to have a ¼ inch jack to RCA phono jack cable lying around.

I haven't given much thought to the relative volume issue. Seriously, I just plug it in and play. I control the volume (I guess) by moderating how hard I stomp the PorchBoard.

I hope that helps.


quote:
Originally posted by open-road-matt:
ST,
Sorry if I missed this, can you please tell me what kind of cable you are using to connect your Porchboard to your Compact?

Also, if you run your Porchboard through the RCA inputs, how can you control the Volume of the Porchboard relative to the guitar?

Sorry if both of these have been addressed. I quickly read through the posts and didn't see that info.

Thanks!
Matt
Hi Matt. They way to control the volume is with the volume control....haha. My guitar I control with it's own control so You plug the PB in and set the volume with the L1c volume control then adjust your guitar or ipod or whatever by it's own control. I don't have my PB yet but I plugged a drum machine into the RCAs today and then adjusted the guitar and it worked fine.
Thanks ST and Downtown Freddy Brown!
I got to hear my first Compact when in Key West last week. The fellow I heard was using two of them with a mixer. He had them set up like you would "normal" main speakers. I liked the sound and I'm giving some thought to trying one. I'm very excited to think I could use my Porchboard!

Thanks for your help!
Matt
I've been using the Compact and PorchBoard and Packlite® and B1 like this lately.


  1. PorchBoard to PackLite

  2. PackLite to B1

  3. PackLite line out to Compact Channel 2 RCA (1/4 cable to male RCA required)



You control the volume of the PorchBoard by how you tap it with your foot.

This has been working well for me with small gigs.

The B1 is much thumpier than what you get from the Compact, but both of them together gives you a little more presence than with the B1 (and PackLite) alone.


I got the best results when I put the B1 right beside the Compact.
I recently purchased a Porchboard to use in an acoustic duo thru an L1 Compact. Our input list is: 2-SM58's, 1-Taylor 814ce and now the Porchboard. I use the T1 mixer in front of the L1 Compact. The Porchboard is going into channel 4/5 and set on the Utility setting in the T1. I run a powered monitor off the T1 Aux Output with some level of all 4 channels into the monitor. After using the Porchboard on the last 3 gigs we've played, I can't help but wonder about the title of this thread?

At all 3 gigs, the Porchboard sounded AWESOME thru the L1 Compact. I actually had to back it off a bit to achieve a balance. It occurred to me that perhaps the expectations may be whats out of whack here, not the gear. To answer the question in the title of this thread, Yes, it can and does. If one wants a disco kick drum sound....then I would think one would use something designed to deliver that sound. In the words of my Grandfather, "Use the right tool for the job". In our case, as an acoustic duo, the Porchboard was perfect and delivers the sound we needed. The L1 Compact is also a good choice and the combination? Stellar! If I was after that huge kick drum sound, I'd bring a drum machine. Trying to get that sound out of a Porchboard thru an L1 Compact is like trying to drill a hole with a hammer.

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