T4S cut out after an hour, overheating?

Used my T4S with two L1 MKll's and two B2's today and wow - the sound was superb.

We were outdoor on a warm day (27 deg in the shade) ....

Ginger Pig

and all the control gear was in the shade. There was a mild breeze so our audience was able to sit in the sun without undue discomfort.

After an hour the system cut out and we had to revert to a single stack and a T1.

Having removed the T4S from the setup and turned one L1 system off - I looked closely at the T4S while a colleague of mine continued to perform.

It was hot to the touch at the top right and in the general area of the ethercon out region. The rest wasn't that hot at all.

I can't find recommended operating temperatures anywhere - but even if I do - the unit should not have given up on a warm day - certainly wasn't hot.

Does this behaviour seem normal or should the unit go for repair?

Thanks



Edit title: Previously "T4S - Joy and Despair"

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How do the cabinets work, when they're not in the sun? How far from AC electrical power were the L1's and B2's? What gauge and length of extension cords did you use and which L1 was farther from the AC power source. Decades ago, our rock band was playing a battle of the bands at a Joshua Tree, California man made lake park. The only AC available was a 15A outdoor 2 outlet box almost 200' away. I had two 100' 14 gauge extension cords in my car and drove to a local hardware store and purchased two more 100' 14 gauge extension cords. Instead of using the sound company that was hosting the event, we ran two 100' extensions to each plug on the outlet box. One side was used for our Peavey XR700C powered 7 channel mixer through 4 Peavey SP3 passive PA speakers on one line and using solid state instrument amplifiers on the other line. We used sticks and clothing to tent the powered mixer and instrument amplifiers. We won the battle of the bands, not by being the best band, but by being the only band that did not cut out during our 45 minute set. Low voltage "brown power" and sun light will quickly lead to thermal cut out and can permanently damage your gear.

Hi Scuba Badger,

This one is tough to diagnose. Did you connect the T1® to the L1® that you had previously used to power the T4S? That would be the L1® connected to the T4S Right Output.  Was that Power Stand exposed to direct sunlight?

ST

Thanks ST,

Our power was from a 13A point 30 ft from the main building. Although we were on a supply line that was also powering a DJ for after our show - he was not at that time powered up. We were on a single feed taken from his power source.

One of the L1's was in direct sunlight. When we swapped the desks for the T1 and chose the unit that was in direct sunlight to continue and the T1 went on without issue for an hour then that too gave up.

I changed that for a second T1 and finished the last 45 minutes without an issue. We have three L1 systems between two artists so luckily had the desks to swap out.

Still difficult to gauge which of the components was most likely to be the cause - as each time a cold desk was added - it went on for another hour..

Of the three desks - the T4S came off stage the hottest, with the heat concentrated at the ethercon outlet area.

Finished that show and went to another venue for an evening gig and was too concerned about continuity to bother with the T4S - went straight in with a T1.

I will look to making some sort of protective cover from white plastic for the L1 power bases for use in direct sunlight. That's not going to be easy as I realise that while covered it still needs airflow.

I have some large charity events coming up where the two L1's will be working on an outdoor stage and I can't be having this kind of drop out.

I am on stage today (17-06-18) in a restaurant on a beach but under cover (desk and L1) so I will try the T4S again today and see - so I'll update later tonight.

Thanks

I don't know where else I'd put this comment so I'll tag it onto this discussion...

Have practised at home with the T4S for 3 - 4 weeks before using it on stage as the immediate result for using it was a little bit of a surprise.

The clarity and brightness of the T4S on both music and mic channels is that different it left me feeling I needed to up my game, as if there were no hiding places anymore. On several sessions I went back to a T1 just to re-affirm my thoughts and each time - withing 2 - 3 songs I was replacing with the T4S again as the T1 by comparison sounded muted and muffled - even though my settings are not far from factory - except for the mic being chosen in settings (Shure Beta 87A).

If I can move forward retaining reliability in the T4S that I've experienced with the T1's I am going to be long term extremely happy with the T4S - with the only exception (in my opinion) being the blunderous decision to take away the 4/5 music channel control pot which could so easily have been wired to the pot which is now a headphone socket - and I've never used headphones on stage with my Bose gear in 3 years.

:-)

Have now performed a show in a beach restaurant on a relatively warm day again but with the kit inside under shade. Had no issues with any of the kit once I'd got high frequency squeal mastered.  Seems the clarity of the T4S being so much better than the T1 - I have to tweak a little farther to avoid feedback - which I rarely suffer but some backing tracks are a little brighter than others and can catch you out a little.

Heat was clearly the issue the other day so I am going to work on producing a couple of covers for the power stands.

Don't know what I can do about the T4S though as that never was in the sun - but still it blanked out on me.

Having accepted that the L1 Power stand is susceptible to direct sunlight causing overheating, I pondered over how I am long term going to cope as during the summer months much of my work is outside in direct sunlight and I have two systems needing protection. All sorts went through my head, buy a plastic sheet and heat / bend in etc....

Here is what I came up with;

1

No - I didn't bin my Powerstands.

This is what I did to the plastic bin;

2345

The front opening is enough to catch any moving air, the top is protected from the sun yet leaves space for cables, the rear had an open end at bottom and top to allow air flow and cable access and the side have air flow vents to allow air movement without compromising the shade from the top.

The hole in the top was made deliberately oversized to encourage air to escape upwards and draw cooler air from underneath.

Yes they're ugly, but they function. They'll only be used in setups in direct sunlight and 1 x bin cost $18 so two covers for approx $9 each and they're sturdy and will last and I even have built in handles - free.

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Thanks ST

I know they’re unconventional but I needed something with a little durability that would allow airflow yet give shade.

My first gig where these were not used -  in the start of this thread I had thermal trip the shade temp was around 24 deg.

Im hoping these will save me, but if they don’t I didn’t break the bank..

Dave

 

Forgot to take my protectors on a gig yesterday and while the two towers performed without fault the T4 thermaled out on me. I had to leave it in the shade for half an hour to cool off, after which it was ok again after we protected it from direct sunlight.

Even though the day was only 23 degrees, the direct sunlight did it. Last year it was thermaling in the shade at 32 degrees.

It is evident to me there is no venting in the case, anywhere and some form of venting I believe would be essential.

Is there a way to open the T4, I’d like to look at where I can drill holes in the casing underneath and in the top or sides to provide natural convection.

This, so soon into the early spring season with my hot summer season ahead brings brings shuddering memories of the cutouts last year mid season.

 

 

Hi ScubaBadger,

What are you using to protect the T4S from direct sunlight?

There are no user serviceable parts inside the T4S and opening the case will void your warranty. 

The components are tightly spaced so there's no room for air flow (natural convection). The connectors are all sealed, so there are no outlets if you were to add holes. If you were to put holes in the bottom, you would weaken the structural integrity of the mounting system. You don't want to do that.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful.

You're best bet is to protect the T4S from direct sunlight.

ST

As a DJ, we do outside events, but I ALWAYS make sure all of my electronic equipment is not in direct sunlight. Even something simple like a table top umbrella to keep the sun away works. 

 

BTW, love the garbage can covers. Spray paint those babies black and you are good to go!!

“BTW, love the garbage can covers. Spray paint those babies black and you are good to go!!”
 
I am clearly going to have to make sure we have protection, tho I didn’t think a relative low level warm day would have had so much effect so quickly.
 
I did think about painting the covers black but had second thoughts as black attracts heat rather than repelling it, so would that make the problems worse?

 

ST posted:

Hi ScubaBadger,

Wonderful, a creative solution.

How hot is it when you perform outdoors in direct sunlight?

ST

The hottest I've had these working in and didn't fail was 33 deg in direct sunlight. I had a 6" fan blowing in at the front of each stand for added draught. I do feel that while not eye candy the silver reflective nature of the plastic does prevent heat getting to the powerstand.

The T4S and T1 - were a different story - won't go there.... Lol

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