L1 Model II

Let's talk about the L1® Portable Line Array Systems

Using proprietary Bose® technology, L1 systems combine  PA and monitors into a single, highly portable unit. The  loudspeaker can be positioned behind or to the side —and you hear what the audience hears.

Highly portable PA and monitor combined for solo performers, DJs and general-purpose use. Fixed vertical control with 180° horizontal coverage Reduced vulnerability to feedback.

Three systems to choose from (Compact, Model 1S, Model II)
Two passive bass module options (B1 or B2)
Consistent coverage and tonal balance, portability and easy setup.

T1 Tuner

All,

There has been a lot of discussion here lately about the tuner in the T1. Some folks have mentioned having trouble with the tuner, or that it is 'jumpy'. Some have talked about not being able to tune at all. We listen to everything, take it into consideration and sometimes do some behind the scenes work before we come back with a response. In this case, I want to come back and offer some tips on using the tuner and some additional explanation.

In all of our testing and experience here we have found the tuner to be as accurate and reliable as other high quality stage tuners. The T1 tuner is fairly 'fast' in terms of tracking speed. For example, typically, Boss tuners have more 'averaging' and slower tracking speed. The needle moves up to the note you are tuning slower, but is more stable once you get up there. Another example - Peterson tuners generally track faster. They go up very fast to the note, and move around more once you get up there - this is because the instrument is actually slightly varying pitch. The tuner is tracking this behavior correctly. Both Peterson and Boss make awesome, super accurate tuners, its just like the difference between a Strat and a Les Paul...or a Porshe and a Benz.

The T1 tuner, as I said, is faster in its tracking, and this may take some getting used to at first. It took me a little while to become accustomed to bench tuning my basses with a Peterson strobe tuner after using a Boss for a few years.

Some tips:

1.) *CRITICAL*. Make sure the CH Edit button is pressed on the Channel of the instrument you are trying to tune.
2.) Make sure you instrument is gain staged correctly - the tuner needs a good strong signal (at least solid green) to lock on to.
3.) Take the FX off. Any modulation effects will mess things up.

If you are still having problems, reply back and we'll work through 'em.

-MikeZ

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Original Post
Okay ... I'll jump in on this one too.

I'm used to the Peterson type speed on a tuner so I like the quick response versus the "overshoot" that I used to do with my old tuner.

The thing I've done a few times too many (I've learned now) is to tune using the channel my mic is connected into instead of selecting the guitar channel. Mike's #1 item, the "CRITICAL" item is something to keep in mind for sure. After you do it once (or twice in my case ... that is a couple times ... sorry to bring that thread up again) you'll just remember to do it right away so that you get the guitar signal, not the mic signal.


My two cents,
Steve
A few points of detail.

quote:
2.) Make sure you instrument is gain staged correctly - the tuner needs a good strong signal (at least solid green) to lock on to.


It is the LED next to the trim control on the T1 that should be "solid green".

quote:
3.) Take the FX off. Any modulation effects will mess things up.


You "take the FX off" by pushing the FX Mute button on the T1 channel used for the instrument you're tuning. Thus the FX Mute and the CH Edit buttons should be pushed.

I've enclosed a screen shot from the T1 simulator that shows how the T1 would look if you were tuning on Channel 3.

Thanks,

Ken
Oh. And just a plug for the engineers and product managers that worked on the T1 tuner.

They were not trying to add a "checkbox" feature just to throw some extra spice into the T1 engine.

They worked really hard on this feature to make it a world-class tuner, something that players could come to depend on.

In our tests it does that. As always, if it fails to do that for you, we want to know about it.

Ken
Y'know, when I had my problems tuning a few weeks ago, I wonder if it had something to do with the fx..... Upon booting up I noticed that all of my presets had been lost somehow...as I scrambled to recreate what I previously had in there, I probably used more chorus than I had previously and that may have been enough to scramble the signal.....
MikeZ and Ken,

thank you very much for the helpful tips and advices in using the T1 tuner the right way.

Is it really necessary to push the "FX Mute" button? I assumed that the tuner's signal is taken direct after trim (pre fader and pre FX), isn't it?
If not I have to push one additional button (Ch Edit, FX Mute, Mute, Wheel to Tuner) for tuning an instrument, which would increase the chance of an operation error.

Wolfgang
Hi:

What I'm finding with my T1 is that, too frequently, as I tune a string on my guitar, the bar on the tuner begins to hone in on the center point as I'm getting the string tuned to where it needs to be. Then, for no apparent reason that I can determine, the tuning bar starts to move very quickly left and right. I then have to take some extra seconds to get that bar to calm down to where I can continue to accurately guide it to position, etc.

I have checked the obvious so I know I'm selecting the correct channel, and I'm muting the effects on that channel, to be on the safe side, etc. And...I have also been muting any microphone channels I've been using; and I keep any unused channels muted as well.

I'm also muting the other five strings with my right hand fingers, while I tune a particular string...just in case there are some sympathetic vibrations (or whatever the technical name is) from adjacent strings, that might be causing that bar to jump all over the place, etc.

But it definitely takes at least twice as long as it should take me (in my opinion) to tune my guitar.

I don't believe in subjecting an audience to dead time while I tune and re-tune so I prefer to get the tuning over with as quickly as possible. The erratic nature of the tuning bar, wandering all over the place, is often preventing me from doing that.

Since I do appear to have a problem with Ch4/5 cutting out on me, maybe there is something wrong with my tuner. We'll see what the Tech Support folks have to say.

Stu.

PS. what do the numbers mean next to the string notes (the '2' next to the 'E' in the screen shot, for example)?
quote:
Originally posted by BlackForestMan:
...Is it really necessary to push the "FX Mute" button? I assumed that the tuner's signal is taken direct after trim (pre fader and pre FX), isn't it?...
The way I read it, the tuner input is post-Channel-FX (it might be pre-reverb, since that is global).

So, it really depends on the FX's on that channel as to whether they would 'confuse' the tuner.

Which prompts the question of understanding clearly just where the "tuner input" comes in the T1's processing chain.

For example, is it pre- or post- the Insert jack (for channels 1-3)?
Hi:
quote:
"That's the "octave" for that note, in case there is some question in your mind about that"

Well, if there wasn't before...there is now Smile

I'm not music literate so it still doesn't mean anything to me. I know what an octave is (sort of) but a '2' octave on my low 'E' string means nothing to me. But thanks for the info anyway.

Stu
quote:
Originally posted by BlackForestMan:
MikeZ and Ken,

thank you very much for the helpful tips and advices in using the T1 tuner the right way.

Is it really necessary to push the "FX Mute" button? I assumed that the tuner's signal is taken direct after trim (pre fader and pre FX), isn't it?
If not I have to push one additional button (Ch Edit, FX Mute, Mute, Wheel to Tuner) for tuning an instrument, which would increase the chance of an operation error.

Wolfgang


Wolfgang and DanC,

The internal send for the tuner is Pre-FX. Sorry for the confusion. I was speaking in more general terms. You can tune with the T1's *internal* FX on - but, external FX before the input to the T1 are bad.

MikeZ
quote:
Originally posted by StuartD:
Hi:

What I'm finding with my T1 is that, too frequently, as I tune a string on my guitar, the bar on the tuner begins to hone in on the center point as I'm getting the string tuned to where it needs to be. Then, for no apparent reason that I can determine, the tuning bar starts to move very quickly left and right. I then have to take some extra seconds to get that bar to calm down to where I can continue to accurately guide it to position, etc.

I have checked the obvious so I know I'm selecting the correct channel, and I'm muting the effects on that channel, to be on the safe side, etc. And...I have also been muting any microphone channels I've been using; and I keep any unused channels muted as well.

I'm also muting the other five strings with my right hand fingers, while I tune a particular string...just in case there are some sympathetic vibrations (or whatever the technical name is) from adjacent strings, that might be causing that bar to jump all over the place, etc.

But it definitely takes at least twice as long as it should take me (in my opinion) to tune my guitar.

I don't believe in subjecting an audience to dead time while I tune and re-tune so I prefer to get the tuning over with as quickly as possible. The erratic nature of the tuning bar, wandering all over the place, is often preventing me from doing that.

Since I do appear to have a problem with Ch4/5 cutting out on me, maybe there is something wrong with my tuner. We'll see what the Tech Support folks have to say.

Stu.

PS. what do the numbers mean next to the string notes (the '2' next to the 'E' in the screen shot, for example)?


Stu,

What type of tuner are you used to?

Some tuning ideas - some of these things are adaptations I made when learning how to use a Peterson strobe tuner. Sorry if any of these are redundant tips.

- always tune up. Tuning a guitar or bass is inherently more stable when increasing tension on a string then releasing it. So if you're sharp, turn down to a few cents flat, and then go back up.
-hit the string lightly. Really digging into a string when tuning it will make the actual pitch of the string jump around a bit until it settles out.

I've never had the tuner jump once I am honing in on the note - its rock solid for me (I'm usually tuning a bass, but Ive had the same experience on guitar).

Could there be something else in your setup? Is your action really low? Could your strings be hitting frets when the string gets near tune?

Hope this is helpful,
MikeZ
Hi:
quote:
"What type of tuner are you used to?"

I have used a Boss TU2 chromatic tuner for a couple of years now. One thing I've noticed with this tuner is that when I'm at home playing at normal in-the-home volumes, the tuner works great almost all of the time. When I'm performing, and I'm tuning while Mike plays a solo number (my guitar's output is muted while tuning), the tuning LEDs will almost never settle down when I'm tuning the A string. I usually have to wait until Mike has finished his song to tune the fifth string, which I tune by ear at that point. That makes no sense to me, but it's quite repeatable. I just try to work around it.

So I'm used to inconsistent behavior with these tuners to some degree.

I also have one of those Intellitouch tuners. Oddly enough it's the least expensive of the two and the most stable of the two, though it can waver now and then. Before getting the T1 I used to use both the Boss and the Intellitouch (one backing up the other, etc). I was hoping the T1's tuner feature would eliminate the other two because I'm always looking for ways to reduce the amount of gear I have to haul around.

quote:
"Some tuning ideas - some of these things are adaptations I made when learning how to use a Peterson strobe tuner. Sorry if any of these are redundant tips.

- always tune up. Tuning a guitar or bass is inherently more stable when increasing tension on a string then releasing it. So if you're sharp, turn down to a few cents flat, and then go back up."

That's the only way I tune. I 'never' tune down to get in tune.

quote:
"-hit the string lightly. Really digging into a string when tuning it will make the actual pitch of the string jump around a bit until it settles out.

Could there be something else in your setup? Is your action really low? Could your strings be hitting frets when the string gets near tune?"

I'm finding that I can tune quicker and easier if I pick the string very lightly, as you suggest. I play fingerstyle, with bare thumb and fingers so I have a light touch anyway. And once the tuner starts bouncing around as I've previously described I can only get the bar to settle down by picking the string very lightly.

My action is low, but not as low as some guitars I've seen. Fortunately I don't have any fret buzz except for one position (no capo, second string occasionally on the second fret. But my tuning problems occur whether I use a capo or not.

Of course I'm not ruling out that this is a new piece of equipment and possibly I need to adapt. I'm only bringing these issues up because: 1). I have tuners that are, or appear to be, more stable, and 2). Because I have a ch4/5 issue (cutting out after a couple of minutes of use) leading me to believe that there could be something wrong with the tuner also. I'll see what the tech support folks have to say about it.

Stu
Consolidating discussions about the Tuner

quote:
Originally posted by Alembicmike:
Has anyone heard about a fix/reason for the flakiness of the T1's on board tuner? I was tuning up on a gig that I was running through monitors only, so I could not hear my bass because the weird sound man would not turn me up until it was practically time to play. Trusting the T1, I started the show only to find that my A string was almost a half step flat! Come on Bose guys! How hard is it to build a stable tuner?
Hello Alembicmike,

We've looked deeply into the reports of tuner problems and...

We don't find any. None.

That doesn't mean there aren't any.

But one thing is for sure: in every attempt to test the tuner here it works perfectly.

In my experience sometimes manufacturers load in "checkbox" features just to say they have them. They may not work very well because not much thought has been put into them.

That is not the case with the tuner or any other function in the T1 engine.

The T1 tuner is not a "toss it in there" feature. It is carefully crafted by engineers who are also musicians and then it's tested by many people here who play.

One thing we have discovered is that the T1 user interface sometimes makes it easy to have the wrong settings when using the tuner.

Big picture, the T1 interface is a deliberate compromise between a desire to have a small "remote control" and a desire to not bury controls deep in menus. We wanted to have all the "during the song" controls right on the front. We wanted to have the "between songs" controls on the front or at most only one level deep, and we allowed the "before/after/between the gigs" controls to be deeper if necessary.

Using the tuner is a "between the songs" control. (I realize that in a pinch you might have to tune during a song but I think you get the idea.) So you have to do two things before using the tuner: you have to turn the rotary switch to Tuner, and you have to push the appropriate Ch Edit button. Everybody does the first of course, but not everybody does the second.

I am not saying this happened to you. I'm saying it has happened several times to others.

If that is not what happened to you, then I would like to work with you to find out what's going on. If we have a problem, it's good people like you on this message board who often allow us to find it. This is incredibly valuable to the community at large. It's like planting trees in your community.

I look forward to your reply.

With best regards,

Ken
Hi:
quote:
"We've looked deeply into the reports of tuner problems and...

...We don't find any. None."

I wish you could see my T1's tuner. The tuning bar bounces all over the place on a regular basis, making tuning a longer process than it ought to be. And there appears to be no pattern (that I've been able to find) as to which string causes the bouncing.

I realize I didn't buy the T1 for the Tuner, but because there is a tuner in there - and because I paid a lot of money for the T1 - it sure would be nice if it would work more efficiently than it does at the moment.

I can get my guitar in tune, but it takes longer than I believe it ought to. But I deal with its idiosyncrasies because I either use it, or I go back to hauling along more gear and take along an outboard tuner.

Stu
Hi Ken, The strange thing about my experience is that it tuned the other three strings on my bass just fine. It only gave a false reading on the A even though the indicator was right where it should have been to indicate "in tune." Is there a particular method that you can post which will give the best results? I know even the best tuners can be inconsistent sometimes with a bass. I'm also wondering if old strings can give off a false harmonic which may confuse the tuner and prevent it from locking on?
I can only speak for my experience with acoustic guitars. I find there are differences in tuner accuracy based on several different conditions that include:

Age / condition of strings

Whether using mic or pickup

Ambient noise if using mic

Type of pickup installed

Way that guitar is EQed if using preamp between guitar and tuner

Sympathetic or overtones present when striking a particular string. Some acoustic guitars have many, some nearly none.

Sometimes the tuner will put the string perfectly in tune when struck open, but when fretted it goes out of tune. This is a problem with guitar setup. Could be either worn or poorly cut nut, or bridge improperly positioned or compensated.

Unfortunately I have never had a guitar that tuned perfectly, so I have become used to compensating.

Fortunately I do have guitars that once tuned will stay in tune for a while; If the lights aren't too hot, or the humidity is not too high, or too low, and I keep my hands clean and don't sweat too much, or play too hard or ....

O..
Just a follow-up on something that was mentioned awhile back...A strong signal is definitely needed to tune properly.

Yesterday, I noticed that when I softly plucked the acoustic strings that it read "note detected" but was still out of tune on various strings.

When I went back and plucked the strings a little more forcefully, they registered right on.

So, now I mute the channel and bang away...
If when you pluck the note, it registers cleanly on the tuner for a while, then begins to jump around later (like StuartD experienced), my first guess is that it's because the level of signal is going down as the note dies down.

Try turning up the trim and see if it behaves the same way.

Also, if you have general jumpiness all the time, it would be interesting to try:

1 - pluck harder
2 - turn the trim up

either of which will provide a stronger signal to the tuner. See if that helps.

If those fail to fix the issue, let us know. Thanks!
Bill
Dunno what the status is of the T1 tuner issues....but I figured I'd toss out my experiences from this morning anyways.

Tuned my electric guitar on ch 3 which was being run thru a processor with multi-effects turned on (no effects on T1) and it worked perfectly.

Tuned my acoustic guitar on ch 2 while I had T1 reverb and chorus 2 on. It read "detected note" on every string whether it was in tune or not. I repeated the tuning with effects muted with the same results. Even though it told me I was in tune, the guitar in standard tuning sounded like the intro chord to purple haze...

I'm only bringing this issue up again in the event that the tuner issues are being looked at by the Bose guys.
If you are reading this discussion then you will be want to check out this announcement.

T1® Firmware Version 1.8 Tuner Enhancements (April 24, 2009).

Note: from this point forward, the tuner enhancements will be incorporated in future T1® firmware updates. You can always find those here:

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