L1 Model II

Let's talk about the L1® Portable Line Array Systems

Using proprietary Bose® technology, L1 systems combine  PA and monitors into a single, highly portable unit. The  loudspeaker can be positioned behind or to the side —and you hear what the audience hears.

Highly portable PA and monitor combined for solo performers, DJs and general-purpose use. Fixed vertical control with 180° horizontal coverage Reduced vulnerability to feedback.

Three systems to choose from (Compact, Model 1S, Model II)
Two passive bass module options (B1 or B2)
Consistent coverage and tonal balance, portability and easy setup.

T1 FAILURES

It's become kinda clear that there are prevailing issues with the failure of the T1. In my own case, I am not convinced that it was an overheating failure of the L1 due to me not being able to clearly verify the on-screen status of the T1 or L1 during failure.

There have also been failures reported by:
Jim Mead
Earthworm
NetTek
Mitchel Bergen
Sludgefactory

I am also aware that there have been other failures and/or repeated failures that have not made it to this public message board and have been handled "behind the scenes".

Can Anyone-at-Bose give us an update as to where we all stand with regard to this problem? Private messaging is great but the rest of us are left in the mushroom closet...

Some of us are beginning to wonder if these issues may have contributed to the delay of the T1's release to the general public as well.

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Original Post
Hi JD.

The PM conversations I've had were basically the same troubleshooting and testing help that we've seen on the public board. The At-Bose person was very professional and helpful but ultimately unsuccessful in finding a solution. Bose seems to be in an information gathering mode.
Yeah, the PMs were just trying to get info about the circumstances surrounding the failures. I did return my T1 and got another one to replace it. It worked for me for four gigs since Thursday.

I am sure the guys at Bose are all over this issue. They'll get to the bottom of it, I believe.
I just finished up a solo gig and had a couple of issues with the same T1 that had failed a few weeks ago.

While most of the night went without a hitch, when I booted up I found that all my saved settings from last week were gone. I had to re-configure all the presets, effects and EQ from scratch.

The tuner was also acting erratically. The G string wouldn't show visual tunability at all and then when I tuned all 6 with the mute on (not being able to hear it) it was completely out of tune to the ear when the mute was turned off. Even though the T1 visually said the guitar was in tune, it wasn't even close.

Beginning to look like I may have a flat-tire here.....
.. I've not had any T1 failures of the magnitude of it "shutting down" in mid song, but then again, due to a busy schedule at home, I've only used my new Bose T1/L1-2 in a home setting, sporadically. I really don't feel as though I've given it a real test as of yet.

However, I did notice that when I used the T1 tuner to tune my guitar,and then played with my Ipod backing tracks, it was not in tune. I wasn't sure what to make of that, but as I really didn't T1 for it's tuner (since I have a Peterson Strobstomp-2), I let it slide. But since someone else has mentioned the tuner issue, I figured I'd better chime in a let the Bose folks know about the tuner problem with my T1 also.
I did get a T1 shutdown the other day that was associated with a brief power blip when lightning struck a few miles away at an outdoor gig. The power came back up, but as many here have reported there was nothing on the screen - just the blue backlight.

Bill & Mike, maybe this can help with diagnosing the problem?

Tom
The tuner doesn't work for me either. I was not too surprised. In my experience many tuners cannot deal with the many overtones that some acoustic guitars have. It seems I am always compensating, but this one isn't even close.

Thankfully the L1 sound is clear and it is reasonably easy to tune by ear.

O..
Oldghm,

I too have had issues with tuners (not the T1™ ) struggling with rich overtones. This for me was an inability to auto-detect the string, or to centre correctly. What is happening for you?

Have you tried tuning to the 12th Octave fret (octave) Harmonic?

Is it any better if you mute the other channels? From the interactive simulation - it doesn't look like you should have to do that, but I'm just curious if there is some cross-talk from the microphone 'confusing' the tuner.

edit: clarification about the harmonic.
I too have problems with the tuner, although like others, I didn't buy the T1 for the tuner and didn't really intend on using it.

It seems just fair with my acoustic guitar, and worthless on my ukulele - it rarely auto-detects the right note. I use click-on vibration tuners that are far superior. I will just sitck to those for my tuning.

ST, as far as cross talk, I think it's unlikely. You have to choose which channel you're tuning with the channel edit. And the mute button has no effect on the tuner - which is good b/c you can tune while muted.

As a side note ST, I know you're not asking for Bose for anything for the huge amount of help you do here on the forum, but even with a recent visit from Ken, you still don't have a T1? That seems like a crime to me...

-Mark
BTW....my tuner had operated just fine thru 4 gigs and my other T1 works fine as well, with acoustic, electric and bass guitars. No, I didn't buy them to replace my tuners but yes, they should be operating perfectly without a hitch.

I also would like to know why my presets disappeared.

...just another weekend in paradise...
quote:
Originally posted by ST:
Have you tried tuning to the 12th Octave Harmonic?


YES

quote:

Is it any better if you mute the other channels?


No

It will not auto detect the high E and will not tune the low E, or D, and G.

I "was hoping" the tuner would work well but I am not surprised. This has nothing to do with Bose. I believe the accepted technology is lacking. Even though I love and play Martins, I think they are the worst of high end guitars when it comes to tuning without compensation.

I have a friend who has the Peterson virtual strobe tuner it will put my guitar in "near" perfect tune, still requires some compensation for low E and G.

O..
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Munch:
All it required was a quick off & back on. The T1 boots very quickly with no fanfare.

The T1 (re)boots very quickly, but unfortunately with a loud popping sound from the L1 Classic while switching the T1 off and on.

I guess thats why BOSE recommends:
- switching off the L1 first and then the T1.
- switching on the T1 first and then the L1.
And doing it this way takes some time.

Wolfgang
Hi:
quote:
"... I've not had any T1 failures of the magnitude of it "shutting down" in mid song..."

I performed with my T1 this past Sunday, outside, in fairly hot, humid conditions, for three hours straight...no breaks. It seemed to work just fine.

However, I do have a problem with Ch4/5 as it turns out - and had I been using Ch4/5 I would have experienced a channel shutdown for sure! And it likely would have taken place about three to five minutes into the first song!

For some reason Ch4/5 cuts out after a few minutes, for no apparent reason. I found that if I snap one of the bass strings on my guitar (pull up hard, away from the neck, and release) then Ch4/5 starts working correctly again. Almost as if the noise gate was turned on, and by snapping the string I was playing with a sudden increased volume, overcoming the noise gate threshold setting - except that the noise gate wasn't on. It was bypassed. I say almost as if, because if it was a noise gate issue I'd have to snap the string to get the channel to 'open up' every time I tried to play something through that channel. So is it noise gate-related? I don't know.

Fortunately I didn't need Ch4/5 on Sunday so it wasn't an issue but I will be checking in with Bose Customer Service to see what the problem could be.

As for the built-in Tuner: mine wanders all over the place as well. Although I've yet to see an electronic tuner that doesn't. I have a very popular Boss chromatic stomp box tuner, and one of those Intellitouch tuners that clips to the headstock of the guitar, and both those wander all over the place as well.

I found that if I muted the five strings I wasn't tuning, with my right hand, and plucked the string I was tuning very lightly, I could keep the T1 tuner's 'wandering' to a minimum.

Anyway, I was able to use the tuner feature in the T1 for the whole three-hour performance and I was able to make it work well enough to not require the use of the other two tuners I have. It certainly was no worse than the Boss or the Intellitouch tuners. Though it would be nice if it was a bit more stable. Fortunately I didn't buy the T1 for the tuner feature. However, in a piece of equipment of this quality I would expect the tuner to be a bit more stable with respect to 'wandering' etc.

Stu
Good morning everyone,

I would have responded earlier but have been away for the weekend.

Rest assured we are working on this. It was the first thing I thought of when I woke up this morning. We will find it and fix it, as quickly as possible.

This issue is *has nothing to do* with the ship dates of T1's. Its a new issue, brought to our attention entirely by this message board.

Thank you to all for answering all of the questions Hilmar, Bill or myself have asked. Those bits of information are very important to helping us.

People who are having trouble with the tuner: What is your exact rig leading up to the tuner? Are you sure you pressed the correct Ch Edit button?

Thanks, and Ill keep things updated,
MikeZ
Howdy all,

I haven't had time to write a gig report yet with my T1's, but in 15 gigs I haven't had shut down problems. ALL gigs were in very hot and humid conditions(105-115 degree heat index).
However, the tuner will not register the high E string on my Strat. This is not an issue since I have several tuners in my signal chain.
Just a quick observation.

Mike
MikeZ,

For both my acoustic guitar and my uke, I'm going directly into the T1, channels 2 & 3. I am certain I've correctly picked the right channel with the channel edit button b/c it does work, it just seems to run a little haywire sometimes.

Again, my acoustic seems to work just fair, but I'm happier with my vibration tuners in terms of getting closer to perfect tuning.

As far as my uke goes, it's not very useful. It seems to pick up the high G, and the A, but the low C and the E never seem to register. I use the vibration tuner here as well with great results.

I will say, everything else about the T1 is great. And this "problem" is really a non-issue for me.
I hadn't noticed the pop when turning the T1 off & on. I'm not good at following instructions though, & I tend to leave everything powered up all the time.

As far as the tuner jumping around wildly, I was kind of hoping the T1 tuner would have a 'slow' mode like some tuners have to smooth out some of the wild tonal shifts that some instruments have - particularly acoustic instruments. I've found that the tuners that sense body vibration like the Sabine AX's work best for me.

Tom
Ken, setting up that thread is an excellent move on the part of you guys!

Just another bit of info on my original T1 failure which was likely attributed to overheating.....

Both L1 systems were in the sun. The system that did not fail was only partially shaded by the bass drum. Both T1's were equally in the sun, albeit partially covered side by side on a music stand.

With regard to power interruption, all systems were plugged into the same power strip. Only one system had issues.

Hope it helps some....
In the "to and from"section on T1 failures,
there seems to be a leaning towards voltage drops. I know you guys are working hard on this and have in no way narrowed it down yet.
I just wanted to share this:
At the end of our set last night,last song, the venue had a large voltage drop, stage lights dimmed heavy as did the bar lighting. Some of the neon signs even turned off.Both of my T1's and all other gear remained on and working fine.All gear was plugged into a Monster power conditioner.
Just an observation. Hope it helps.
Hi:
quote:
"People who are having trouble with the tuner: What is your exact rig leading up to the tuner?..."

Ch 1: Marting or Babicz acoustic guitars (both with LR Baggs pickups) into Ch 1 directly (one at a time of course).
Channels 2 & 3, N/A, because I'm using those for microphones.

quote:
"...Are you sure you pressed the correct Ch Edit button?"

Yes.

Stu
quote:
Originally posted by JD1:


I am also aware that there have been other failures and/or repeated failures that have not made it to this public message board and have been handled "behind the scenes".

Can Anyone-at-Bose give us an update as to where we all stand with regard to this problem? Private messaging is great but the rest of us are left in the mushroom closet...

Some of us are beginning to wonder if these issues may have contributed to the delay of the T1's release to the general public as well.



Hi JD1:

When I started the Private Message posts with users who experienced T1 issues, my goal has been to quickly ask lots of detailed, repetitive questions (what was connected, what happened to the screens, etc), get answers as quickly as possible (via email notification of provate posts), and share contact information privately, if necessary, for returning units.

I didn't mean to leave folks in the mushroom closet (great image, thanks!). Ken has started a thread to keep users posted as we work to solve the issues.

If anyone thinks it would be useful to post any content from the private messages, that's ok, too.

Thanks to everyone for their help!

Bill
I'm not sure this would qualify as a failure, but this happened to me. I had the T1 in my lap adjusting trim and volume on channels 2 and 3. When I hit the input cords by accident there was no sound for a second or two when hit my pads of my spd-20. It was almost like the T1 lost my input signal then reset itself? I will keep an eye on this to see if it happens again THUMPER
Following up on the tuner dysfunction....

I just set up my system exactly as it was on Saturday, albeit inside my house instead of outside.

Mic in 1, Acoustic guitar in 2 and ipod in 4/5

The tuner functioned perfectly.The saved scenes were also present. I booted up the system in the same order as always.

Also, on Saturday, I did verify that the correct channel edit was selected. The tuning wasn't "fluctuating" as some have decribed but was dead-off. I'm talking nails across the ol' chalkboard!

Once again, we're stuck with an anomaly that I can't rec-reate. That's three now. The power outtage, loss of scenes and a whacked out tuner.

Guess it won't be of much help....
JD,

Keep reporting man. We'll get it.

Also, in such circumstances, take a step back, and ask "is there something that could explain what I'm experiencing" other than the conclusion I've raeched? It's just a good mental excercise.

When you count a deck of cards twice and get two answers, unfortunately you (or we) have to count again.

Could you try the tuner again starting your setup from scratch and being methodical to see what you get?

Thanks,

Ken
Ken,
Your "step back" advice is wise. I was using my replacement T1 at one of our Simon and Garfunkel gigs on Sat. No signal from the guitar. Hmmmmm. Puzzling. Hmmmmm (i.e. step back). Guitar was plugged into the wrong channel.

That was human error. Of course, my T1 sound failure at my gig on Wednesday was not human error...it was something else. Something very mysterious. An X File, perhaps?

(excuse me: I just turned my 9th grade daughter on to season one of X Files...we've been watching them together. Tonight it was Eugene Tooms. Remember him?)
To all,

I am happy to announce the release of new T1 ToneMatch(tm) audio engine and L1(tm) Model II power stand firmware. We believe these updates will address the problems reported on the message board where some users have experienced a loss of audio sometimes accompanied by a blank blue T1 LCD screen.

For download information please see the link below.

New T1 and L1(tm) firmware

Craig
I've been one with repeatable problems with the T1 locking up. I downloaded and installed the new firmware update on Friday in prep for a gig on Saturday night. Install was a breeze and, more importantly, the T1 made it through a 3 hour gig with no problems!!! I think (read: Hope) the problem has been licked!!!

Thanks to the engineer types in Mass. for working out the bugs, and the Customer Service types for keeping the smile on your face while taking care of all us cranky users' complaints. You guys are the tops!
Today I had my new T1 I got Thursday cycle off & back on with the 1.3 upgrade. I was sitting in the audience on a break with the system playing an mp3 when the sound went dead & then came back on 30 seconds later. When I got to the stage I knew the T1 had reset because it was on Prefs/Input Levels before the reset & on Prefs/Status (the default screen under Prefs) after the reset. It did come back up without the blue screen, but I'm not sure why it reset. There didn't seem to be a power outage that triggered it. I hope this isn't another problem. I'll post more if I can duplicate it.

Tom
I was using a Model II, & it had been upgraded.

It was a warm day, but the T1 was not in direct sunlight. (I don't know that we've determined that this is a factor.)

I can't think of any other details. The good thing is that it did come right back up with all settings intact.

I'll be in the same location today. I don't usually stay close enough to hear the break music in this outdoor location, but maybe it will happen while I'm playing next time.

This was the 2nd day on this new T1. I was using the old one until I sent it back Monday.

I bought another T1 at the same time, so I need to check if this is that one or the replacement for the returned unit.

Tom
Hi Tom,

The behavior you describe is consistent with a power outage at the site. I wonder if there are any other indicators you can think of to let you know if there was a power outage there?

Since it's outdoors, you wouldn't see lights dim - maybe something else was connected that would indicate.

btw, if the T1 is turned off then on, or if there is a power outage (which is sort of the same thing), all the effects settings are saved, but the location within the Preferences menu is not saved.

So, like in your example, if you have the selector on Prefs, and have selected a sub-menu, when the power returns, you will be at the Status menu.

Thanks,
Bill
Hi Tom:

Sorry to hear of your reset. Sudden loss of audio is our worse nightmare. People buy tickets to see us so we can't tolerate that type of catastrophic failure.

As I posted elsewhere, we are using an APC SUA 1500 sine wave uninterruptible power supply...so far, so good.

When I researched this I found out that this type of UPS is always working. The line power goes to the UPS which conditions the power and delivers it to our T1. In case of a power variation the switch over time for this type of unit is extremely fast, 1-2 milliseconds.

Most power supplies have capacitors that can buffer power outages for up to about 20 milliseconds (anyone from Bose care to comment about that with regard to the T1?) So our T1 should never feel the effects of any variation in line current.

You might consider that for the interim.It is expensive and heavy, but if the venue goes out you can even continue playing for quite a while just on the UPS power.

Steve

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