Discussions about the Bose S1 Pro system

Bose S1 Pro

Designed for musicians, DJs and general PA use, the S1 Pro is the ultimate all-in-one PA, floor monitor and practice amplifier that's ready to be your go-anywhere Bluetooth music system for nearly any occasion. 

This is the place to discuss the S1 Pro system.

Don't know if ccc will come back to answer ST's question of not, but it's interesting to note that ccc and Moon Dog have opposite views of Bose systems outdoors.

I think we all know by now that the array design is intended to create a wide, even dispersion so that all the audience is bathed in the same sound. The longer the array the wider the dispersion. 

Some Bose Home Stereo speakers have been designed with reflective properties in mind. With suggested placement to produce a natural sound throughout a confined space.

Bose live sound speakers are different from home stereo. I doubt that any speaker is designed without some consideration of reflected sound. The L1 series, in particular, was designed in such a way as to reduce unwanted reflections from the ceiling, providing a narrow vertical and wide horizontal pattern projecting a clear sound deeper into the audience. If I understand correctly, the articulation of the array was a means of providing a more even horizontal dispersion of the directional higher frequencies. I think that articulated design was first done by Chris @Bose in the 502A. That the array design reduces reflected sound from reentering the main dispersion pattern makes it more predictable in free field or open space, outdoor settings. I think that quality is recognized by Moon Dog.

O..

 

Oldghm posted:

Well we've come full circle. Depending on how you have set replies per page, the idea of utilizing the B1 design in conjunction with the S1 Pro geometry was talked about on the first or second page of this thread.

I think there are several reasons we don't see the same low end in the S1 Pro that we see in a B1. A couple, and not necessarily in the order of importance are weight, and performance of the speaker / cabinet design from sub frequencies up to the desired crossover frequency. 

I'm not suggesting it can't be done but I suspect if it was done in a single cabinet it would be a three way cabinet, like a miniature version of a dual 15" with horn. There would be the array, a mid range producing 100 / 200 up to 600 Hz and the sub speaker from 100 / 200 Hz down.

Even the F1 812 with its 12" speaker and the same crossover point as the S1 only goes down to 52 Hz @ -3 dB (43Hz @ -10dB) 

The B1 reproduces 40Hz @ -3dB, and if we can trust the technical data sheet down to 32 Hz @ -10dB. .................. but the design is only good up to about 300Hz.

The weight issue. Any meaningful volume of 40 Hz musical content will shake and bump a lightweight speaker. There is a reason the B1 weighs nearly 30 lbs, roughly twice that of the S1.

What we end up with when we get down to that magical 40Hz is a speaker / system that no longer fits the true compact size and weight of the S1 Pro.

O..

One thing to clarify in this thread is are we talking about a Bass cabinet or a true Sub. Personally I think 200 - 600 hz would be an area we need some help. I think we are assuming this will be a stand alone cab. As far as weight and size, Bose appears to be one of, if not the market lead for miniaturizing amazing sound. Evidence -> Sound Link, SoundTouch 10, S1 Pro.... that being said, we are hoping that Bose can break some more barriers around this Battery Powered, S1B ProBass Cab. 

I would say if you look at automotive sound there are some pretty thumping bass speakers in small light form factors. I actually bought a bass speaker for a car to attempt to do this very thing....no progress thus far. 

 

Great thread.

Dear Admin.  I was kidding...

I'm happy enough with the performance of my Bose S1 Pros...

To answer another question, no, you cannot run the JBL EON ONE without its speaker unit...just to use the subwoofer.  And it's sort of big (bigger than a Compact) and weighs 44 pounds. 

But the sound...ah, the sound...like the JBL studio monitor speakers we used in recording studios in the 70s -- but better.

What I meant was a built in filter passing the lows to the 2 drivers in the S1b with another output (high pass) that could go to another system. 

The same setup as the Behringer 1200D subs I bought.  They work well to add the kick but have to be plugged in and I have to borrow the kid's Jeep since they won't fit in my Miata.

Chet posted:

Dear Admin.  I was kidding...

I'm happy enough with the performance of my Bose S1 Pros...

To answer another question, no, you cannot run the JBL EON ONE without its speaker unit...just to use the subwoofer.  And it's sort of big (bigger than a Compact) and weighs 44 pounds. 

But the sound...ah, the sound...like the JBL studio monitor speakers we used in recording studios in the 70s -- but better.

I'll differ with you on the sound of the JBL.  I just shipped mine (the original Eon One) to my place in Florida in case I want to gig down there sometime.  I used it for years since it was easier to transport than my L1M2 and I didn't need the attributes of the L1M2.  It never sounded that good to me.  I also tried using my T1 into it (and other mixers) and it just wasn't nearly as good as my Bose sound.  The sound of the Eon One Pro was very weak, not just volume wise, compared to the original Eon One.  Even at $499 for a refurb, I returned it.

Sound is subjective. So are one's PA needs.

I've played nearly a hundred gigs over the last few years as a single (guitar/voice) with my EON ONE (NOT the battery powered Pro) and another dozen with my band (3 voices, 2 acoustic guitars, bass and congas miked) using 2 of them. 

We also gig with a Bose L1S most weekends.

I like what the EON does for MY VOICE better than the Bose.  I find the band sound is also cleaner with the 2 EONS than with the one L1S. 

I found the L1M2 w/2B1s "too crispy" and it made me nervous when it would occasionally just quit for 5-10 seconds for no good reason and can't be fixed by anyone within 2800 miles of me.  So after getting the S1s and having my 2nd heart attack I sold it.

My band has used an L1M2 with B2 and an F1 for a local bar gig and it was TOO **** LOUD!  The next time, we used my EON with 2 S1s with 2 subs and it was in the Goldilocks zone -- just right and feedback was MUCH easier to control.

And as I've said, I LOVE the sound of my 2 S1 Pros with one or two of my Behringer subs best and if one of the S1s dies, they're much cheaper than an L1.

YMMV.

Hi DavidE2,

DavidE2 posted:

I think my question was lost in this latest barrage of posts.   Can I use the Compact without the high pack as a subwoofer with my S1s?

Thanks

You can and you won't harm the L1 Compact.

I wouldn't because if I brought both an S1 Pro and and L1 Compact to a gig I would use them as designed.

  • If I need more sound than the S1 Pro could provide alone, I use the L1 Compact. 
  • If I need the inputs and reverb on the S1 Pro and more sound, then I'd
    • Connect my sound sources to the S1 Pro
    • Use the S1 Pro as a monitor
    • Connect the line out from the S1 Pro to the L1 Compact channel 2 (with ToneMatch switch set to Line-Level)
    • Use the L1 Compact with both extensions as the front of house speaker, placed between me and the audience.   

If I didn't want to use L1 Compact as the front of house system, I'd still leave the mid-high speakers installed in the power stand. 

ST

ST posted:

Hi DavidE2,

DavidE2 posted:

I think my question was lost in this latest barrage of posts.   Can I use the Compact without the high pack as a subwoofer with my S1s?

Thanks

You can and you won't harm the L1 Compact.

I wouldn't because if I brought both an S1 Pro and and L1 Compact to a gig I would use them as designed.

  • If I need more sound than the S1 Pro could provide alone, I use the L1 Compact. 
  • If I need the inputs and reverb on the S1 Pro and more sound, then I'd
    • Connect my sound sources to the S1 Pro
    • Use the S1 Pro as a monitor
    • Connect the line out from the S1 Pro to the L1 Compact channel 2 (with ToneMatch switch set to Line-Level)
    • Use the L1 Compact with both extensions as the front of house speaker, placed between me and the audience.   

If I didn't want to use L1 Compact as the front of house system, I'd still leave the mid-high speakers installed in the power stand. 

ST

I always use my T1 for my duo gigs because I need the inputs and I like the rest of the effects.  I have a fairly regular gig that the compact and one S1 might be a good solution.  The people don't go far in front of us or to the right (we're essentially on a balcony), but they go far left.  Compact forward and S1 to the left might work.

Moon Dog posted:

One thing to clarify in this thread is are we talking about a Bass cabinet or a true Sub. Personally I think 200 - 600 hz would be an area we need some help. I think we are assuming this will be a stand alone cab. As far as weight and size, Bose appears to be one of, if not the market lead for miniaturizing amazing sound. Evidence -> Sound Link, SoundTouch 10, S1 Pro.... that being said, we are hoping that Bose can break some more barriers around this Battery Powered, S1B ProBass Cab. 

I would say if you look at automotive sound there are some pretty thumping bass speakers in small light form factors. I actually bought a bass speaker for a car to attempt to do this very thing....no progress thus far. 

 

Great thread.

Well, if we're talking about B1 technology we're talking 40 to 200 Hz. 

I think most of those using a sub or bass cabinet with the S1 Pro are trying to reinforce 40 to 150 Hz.

Many, if not most, of the small Bose powered speakers designed to play recorded music, use Bose Waveguide technology to produce those low tones. I believe the same technology is used in Bose premium systems found in the auto industry. Remember, those Bose auto stereo speakers are in molded chambers specifically designed to fit the cavity they are in, isolated to prohibit unwanted vibration, and stabilized by more than a ton of steel. I am not aware of speakers designed for live sound that utilize the same Waveguide technology. 

My belief is that the DSP necessary for the Waveguide tech is not compatible with live music. If it was we would have already seen it.

O..

Bose is understandably quiet when it comes to upcoming/new product announcements such as this so I doubt we will hear anything from them at this point. 

However, there were a lot of great ideas put forth that I’m sure Bose R&D are listening to that might feed plans they may have in this S1/sub area. The amount of responses clearly indicates a need. 

I´m not so sure if Bose indicates a need to bring another sub on the market.

Bose would have to create a new sub with a built-in x-over and a mixer but there are already so many of such subs on the market, some of them quite cheap and a cheap market is usually not a market Bose likes to serve.

Or Bose has to reengineer the S1 pro completely with an internal x-over and a bass out AND create a new active sub.

Aside from having the Bose name on the sub there is not much to gain for Bose or Bose users.

You can add a sub to the S1 pro easily and the Behringer B1200 is one of many and one of the cheapest and most reasonable solutions. It has a stereo x-over and even a tone control if you need that, it’s loud enough and portable.

It doesn’t run on batteries but you will have a hard time to find a 500 W sub that runs on battery. Of course you can build something with a car battery and a converter.

 You’ll lose a good part of the portability if you add a sub but if you need more bass for some events, the B1200 is an easy way to get it. 2 S1 pros and 1 or 2 subs would be very flexible. (I think one B1200 is enough but try yourself). There is also a RCF Sub702 if you want easy transportation and more power as the B1200 provides.

You’ll lose the internal mixer of the S1 pro but there so many little mixers on the market, including some Bose mixers. Also, if you have 2 S1 pros you can one one’s mixer, run the signal out into the subwoofer and from there into the second S1 pro. Of course the first S1 will fart out a while before the sub/S1 combination.

I like the S1 as it is. If I need more bass, I add it or, if I need much more power, I take another pa. I'm not really missing anything.

 

Hey Guys,

In my search for a personal solution i`m going to build this, think it will work.

Imagine, 2x S1 Pro on 40% volume, S1 Line out boosted with the HA400 for good A1 power, Rolls for the filtering of only <150Hz, all build and wired in the B1, with a new connector panel at the rear for line in and 220V..

 

Me like..!!

 

 

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PZ posted:

I´m not so sure if Bose indicates a need to bring another sub on the market.

Bose would have to create a new sub with a built-in x-over and a mixer but there are already so many of such subs on the market, some of them quite cheap and a cheap market is usually not a market Bose likes to serve.

Or Bose has to reengineer the S1 pro completely with an internal x-over and a bass out AND create a new active sub.

Aside from having the Bose name on the sub there is not much to gain for Bose or Bose users.

You can add a sub to the S1 pro easily and the Behringer B1200 is one of many and one of the cheapest and most reasonable solutions. It has a stereo x-over and even a tone control if you need that, it’s loud enough and portable.

It doesn’t run on batteries but you will have a hard time to find a 500 W sub that runs on battery. Of course you can build something with a car battery and a converter.

 You’ll lose a good part of the portability if you add a sub but if you need more bass for some events, the B1200 is an easy way to get it. 2 S1 pros and 1 or 2 subs would be very flexible. (I think one B1200 is enough but try yourself). There is also a RCF Sub702 if you want easy transportation and more power as the B1200 provides.

You’ll lose the internal mixer of the S1 pro but there so many little mixers on the market, including some Bose mixers. Also, if you have 2 S1 pros you can one one’s mixer, run the signal out into the subwoofer and from there into the second S1 pro. Of course the first S1 will fart out a while before the sub/S1 combination.

I like the S1 as it is. If I need more bass, I add it or, if I need much more power, I take another pa. I'm not really missing anything.

 

You have raised some points of interest here. I have multiple systems that I can plug in. Thats covered....what I now have is a completely wireless mobile solution. I have a wireless mic connected to Ch 1 of the S1. A wireless Guitar connected to Ch 2 and my iPad streaming to the Bluetooth input Ch 3. 

I have everything in a pelican case including a small collapsible mic stand and an iPad holder. Boom. I could play in the middle of the woods if I wanted to entertain the squirrels. 

You say there is not a need for a battery powered sub? I disagree. 

The only shortcoming of my above mentioned wireless mobile system is lack of low end. If I use any of my powered subs which I have multiple options it defeats the purpose for this particular use case. 

And I will extend this use case even further by introducing the need to travel by air to certain gigs. I can fit my S1 in a suitcase (Hardshell Pelican) but I need that Sub in my 2nd suitcase. Southwest two bags fly free up to 50 lbs each. 

I want to control what I play through as part of my quality control approach to my sound. Lots of people don't give a hoot what they play through or how it really sounds. They just show up, play, get their money and run.....but that ain't me. 

So this final piece to the puzzle is a battery powered sub. I don't know where you came up with the 500 Watt requirement. All the Bose subs run 250 watts I believe. So this sub could be 250 Watt or less even. I think the biggest challenge is making the sub light weight and small enough to fit in luggage which is one of my VOICE OF THE CUSTOMER requests.

I do lots of other small gigs where I would leave the compact or L1 at home and use this system....if I only had a sub. 

Guess we will see...the way I see it if you want to talk economics, Bose would sell a portable Battery powered sub to most every S1 buyer, and I for one would also buy a 2nd S1. Sounds like a great $$$ niche that no one is fulfilling....

 

Moon Dog,

sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean there is no need for a battery powered sub, just there is no need for another non-battery powered sub especially for the S1 pro.

The problem with a battery powered sub is the battery. You are also right, 200 watts should be enough and should give us around 112-115 dB SPL. I think even half of this could work. The 500W were only an example because rhe cjeap Berry has this wattage. Ther is only a difference of 3dB SPL between 500 and 250 watts.

But let's compute: 120W/12V = 10 A. For 6 hours we would like to have 60 amphours (Ah). I'm not talking about output but current consumption.

At least 25% capacity should be left in the battery otherwise it will be damaged. Thus we need a 75 Ah battery for a sub with a 120 watt power supply. There are car and boat batteries that have such capacities or more, but they are big and heavy.

Also, if Bose provides us with a 120 watts sub I'm sure many customers will argue that a sub needs at least 1000 watts, because they have heard so. :-)

Anyway, it's doable. Take a small sub, a car battery and a pure sine converter, put it on a trolly and have fun in the middle of the woods. If you go this route check the inrush current of the product because that can be much higher than the

But I think you will get into troubles with such big batteries in a plane. Depending on the technology they can get explosive. Maybe you can just buy the pure sine converter and rent a battery if you have to fly to your gig.

I think it's great that you really care about your sound and hope you find what you need!!!

all the best

Peter

Per my previous posts, I'd love to see Bose come out with a battery powered bass unit to work with the S1 Pro.  That said, I have a question.

For the acoustic guitar/vocal performers, what is it that's missing from your sound when using S1 Pro for PA?  Looking at the specs, it appears to me that for acoustic guitar and vocals, the S1 Pro speakers should more than adequate to handle any of the frequencies that would be produced.

In my case, I'm using 2 S1 Pros with a T4 mixer.   Even though I can EQ this to the Nth degree, and it sounds good, it still feels like something is missing and  I can't put my finger on what it is. It's clear but kind of "thin" for lack of a better word.   Like I said, technically, the S1 Pros should be more than enough for the acoustic performer in all frequencies, low to hi.

What do other acoustic performers think?

Normally, I have bass and treble on the S1 set at 1200.  I haven't tried this yet but when I get back home in a week or so, I'll try turning the bass up on the S1s and see if that helps.

 

KingBiscuit posted:

Per my previous posts, I'd love to see Bose come out with a battery powered bass unit to work with the S1 Pro.  That said, I have a question.

For the acoustic guitar/vocal performers, what is it that's missing from your sound when using S1 Pro for PA?  Looking at the specs, it appears to me that for acoustic guitar and vocals, the S1 Pro speakers should more than adequate to handle any of the frequencies that would be produced.

In my case, I'm using 2 S1 Pros with a T4 mixer.   Even though I can EQ this to the Nth degree, and it sounds good, it still feels like something is missing and  I can't put my finger on what it is. It's clear but kind of "thin" for lack of a better word.   Like I said, technically, the S1 Pros should be more than enough for the acoustic performer in all frequencies, low to hi.

What do other acoustic performers think?

Normally, I have bass and treble on the S1 set at 1200.  I haven't tried this yet but when I get back home in a week or so, I'll try turning the bass up on the S1s and see if that helps.

 

Hey KingBiscuit.....cool name....

I have the ability to mix and match lots of PA components since I am the Bose poster child here in Phoenix. For a recently small show indoors (on a boat), to prepare, at home, I setup a few different combinations of speakers and played through it. I did use the S1 with a number of Subs that I have and the difference is night and day. The S1 provides all the highs and mids I need but just needs a kick to fill in that bottom end.

NOTE: There is one point that has not been made crystal clear here and I can see I need to mention that now. I use backing tracks in my show. So my need is beyond that of a singer/guitarist. I have drums and bass and percussion and pianos and organs and tubular bells.....well you get it. 

(Also most of the singer/guitarist I know have people sit in and in many cases the need for additional low end presents itself.)

Although I would argue that if you have some low end range on your voice and you use any Drop D tunings even for a singer/guitarist you need some additional low end.   

Cheers...two shows this weekend so excited. 

Happy Labor Day weekend everyone...have the time of your life.

KingBiscuit posted:

Per my previous posts, I'd love to see Bose come out with a battery powered bass unit to work with the S1 Pro.  That said, I have a question.

For the acoustic guitar/vocal performers, what is it that's missing from your sound when using S1 Pro for PA?  Looking at the specs, it appears to me that for acoustic guitar and vocals, the S1 Pro speakers should more than adequate to handle any of the frequencies that would be produced.

In my case, I'm using 2 S1 Pros with a T4 mixer.   Even though I can EQ this to the Nth degree, and it sounds good, it still feels like something is missing and  I can't put my finger on what it is. It's clear but kind of "thin" for lack of a better word.   Like I said, technically, the S1 Pros should be more than enough for the acoustic performer in all frequencies, low to hi.

What do other acoustic performers think?

Normally, I have bass and treble on the S1 set at 1200.  I haven't tried this yet but when I get back home in a week or so, I'll try turning the bass up on the S1s and see if that helps.

 

Used the S1 Pro last night as a personal floor monitor, line out into the house PA. Format was solo acoustic guitar and vocal

Love the sound! For me it provides a really accurate sound amplification of my guitar-vocal, in fact, the sound tech commented on how great the S1 Pro sounded. I do use a vocal processor, and my guitar pedal board (including BBE processing for guitar) so maybe that helps?

So, I would have to say for acoustic guitar and vocal I don't feel anything is missing in the sound.

For recorded music such as backing tracks or a small DJ system, yes, I would grab a small sub or two for sub bass.

I have a couple of Behringer B1200D subs.  In my practice/recording studio (about 40' x 20' x 12'), I usually run ONE of these subs and 2 Bose S1 Pros. 

Often 2 voices, 2 electric (or 1 acoustic, 1 electric) guitars. (no backing tracks-occasional pre-recorded rhythm guitar/bass/drum machine loops though).

Sometimes I'll turn on the Sub alone (forget to turn on the S1s) and am amazed that something that sounds so terrible can make such a difference.

I set the sub to reproduce everything it can - close to the top of its 70-150hZ cutoff range and boost a little at the high end of that range.

The difference is astounding.  Especially the low strings on an electric guitar...and of course, bass and even my baritone vocal low notes.

BUT - I often gig with just the 2 Bose S1 Pros and that's pretty special too.

This or this might work for a small area. How much battery one might need for a 4 hour gig?? Don't know. 

The frequency range is good. How to split it, the peripheral equipment necessary to make it work, and still keep it all on battery is still an issue. 

This is not a recommendation, just something I saw on TV and decided to take a look.

O..

Oldghm posted:

This or this might work for a small area. How much battery one might need for a 4 hour gig?? Don't know. 

The frequency range is good. How to split it, the peripheral equipment necessary to make it work, and still keep it all on battery is still an issue. 

This is not a recommendation, just something I saw on TV and decided to take a look.

O..

These look really interesting, you may have solved the subwoofer riddle of the ages. 😀

Harry 3 posted:
Oldghm posted:

This or this might work for a small area. How much battery one might need for a 4 hour gig?? Don't know. 

The frequency range is good. How to split it, the peripheral equipment necessary to make it work, and still keep it all on battery is still an issue. 

This is not a recommendation, just something I saw on TV and decided to take a look.

O..

These look really interesting, you may have solved the subwoofer riddle of the ages. 😀

Yep,  a car sub is the correct form factor.....(small and impressive) and we have all pulled up next to the idiot who has their car stereo cranked and the bass is just thumping. So this proves it can be done its just a question of battery powered needed. Someone suggested they use the same battery as the S1 and then people would just buy a spare battery. It would be good to have a spare for the S1 anyway...I don't think us S1 users dreaming of a companion Battery Powered Sub are asking for the impossible. 

I have read this entire thread on a bass subwoofer for the S1. I own a pair of S1's and love them. Yes, they need a subwoofer. Without a sub, they are a bit naked. So, I tried a KRK 10" and not a good match. I tried the Behringer 1200 and found the sound quality to be poor and not a match for the quality of the S1. Then, I tried the Electro-Voice ELX200-12SP 12 in. Powered Subwoofer, and it is perfect. Perfect for my voice, perfect for my guitar. BTW I play a baritone acoustic guitar and the Electro-Voice ELX200-12SP 12 in. Powered Subwoofer is perfect. The only setback is the weight of 42 pounds, but I just use a small speaker dolly to roll it around. And, the weight is OK with the dolly. The sound is phenomenal. I suggest you look into the Electro-Voice ELX200-12SP 12 in. Powered Subwoofer.

 

Hi Randy,

Welcome to the Bose Portable PA Community.

Thank you for sharing your experiences as you've experimented with different subwoofers with your S1 Pro systems.

Posts like yours are a huge part of what makes this community work.

Cheers!

ST

I have also used my Mackie DLM12 as a sub with both my Bose Compact and my Bose S1....it rocks. https://amzn.to/2q0iPdb , but the whole point of this thread was to discuss a need within the community for us Bose users. Between Randy and Moon Dog, Bose lost about $1500.... Another point that is being missed is many of us want a totally wireless battery powered solution....the way I see we are still one Sub away...

Good points Moon Dog.  I'll agree, the ideal solution is a Bose-built small, light-weight, battery-powered, subwoofer designed specifically for use with the S1 Pro.  Of course, every time we discuss these features, we go round and round with folks saying why it can or can't be done. I say leave all this guess work to the Bose engineers. Either they can or can't do it and let them decide if they do or don't want to do it.  Meanwhile, for S1 Pro users who feel they absolutely need a subwoofer now, it's good to hear how other folks are finding solutions to the problem.  I for one, don't feel I need a sub that bad, and I will continue to wait until the right one comes along (hopefully a Bose).  For me, small size and light weight are just as important as being battery powered.  These are the feature that drew me to the S1 Pro, and I'd like any subwoofer that I use to have these same feature advantages. Maybe it will happen; maybe it won't.

To all who crave a S1 appropriate sub.

Define your idea of small, and lightweight.

Compare your definition of small and lightweight to what is currently available across all makes.

If there is a discrepancy between your small and lightweight and the industry small and lightweight, ask and answer, why?

Define how you want to setup. Would the sub act as a base for a S1 pole mount? Or not? It makes a difference.

Compare published spl of various subs to the power rating and current draw of the amp. Determine if the necessary power to achieve desired spl is possible with the current available batteries on the market. Keep in mind capacity to outlast 4 hour gigs.

Try to come to a consensus here in this thread with a spec sheet that if built would be something you and 100,000 others would purchase.

O..

Hi Oldghm.  Good to hear from you.  I'll take a wag at it. For me -- it should be around the size of a Fishman SA300X ( 10.3 in. x 14.4 in. x 19.8 in.; weight: 30 lbs or less) with battery power and a Bose designed cross-over capabilities designed for the S1Pro.

Then I guess I'd just only have to convince 99,999 other users it's a good idea!

 

Oldghm posted:

To all who crave a S1 appropriate sub.

Define your idea of small, and lightweight.

Compare your definition of small and lightweight to what is currently available across all makes.

If there is a discrepancy between your small and lightweight and the industry small and lightweight, ask and answer, why?

Define how you want to setup. Would the sub act as a base for a S1 pole mount? Or not? It makes a difference.

Compare published spl of various subs to the power rating and current draw of the amp. Determine if the necessary power to achieve desired spl is possible with the current available batteries on the market. Keep in mind capacity to outlast 4 hour gigs.

Try to come to a consensus here in this thread with a spec sheet that if built would be something you and 100,000 others would purchase.

O..

Oh so you want us to be pragmatic about this..... : )

You made a great point about the sub being able to pole  mount the S1. I think you already knew that answer before asking the question..smart....so the answer is no since you need a specific size foot print to safely fly an S1 as well as something significantly heavy.

I would also say I would personally likely only use 1 Sub and 2 S1s for my micro mini wireless battery powered setup. 

My ultimate Sub would fit in a checkin sized suitcase...and for Southwest Airlines at least the weight limit per suitcase is 50lbs. So subtract 10 lbs or so for the suitcase and some chords and the weight would need to come in between 30 and 40lbs..... So for my requirements a 35 lb or less weight would work.

As far as power goes...I would say use the same battery as the S1 and the sub buyers could just buy a spare battery...nice to have anyway for the S1 and if the sub is thumpin and burning battery...just swap it out before the 3rd Set. 

 

 

I was looking at the user manual for Electro-Voice ELX200-12S.  This is kind of nice.   The sub accepts left and right in and provides left/right out.   The L/R ins are routed only to the matching output.   So, if you've panned your channels, say one vocal left and one right, that will stay intact after going thru the sub.  Additionally, the volume on the sub doesn't affect the output signal level.

 

Well, I'll not claim that what follows is truly pragmatic, but If you want to design a new sub, I think you have to be pragmatic. Can't expect a big company to make something different for each forum member. 

Seriously, If we look at the current market, the Bose B1 is one of, if not the smallest, true bass speakers on the market. It weighs about thirty pounds but is marginal in physical size for a carry-on for flight, no problem for checked baggage.

Since we don't see any subs in the 15 or 20 lb range we can probably assume there is a good reason. Manufacturers would not ignore a potential true market if the technology exists to cut 10 or more pounds from their current line up, and it still perform properly. Most of a subs weight is in the cabinet. The savings over time, in just material and shipping, would be tremendous, assuming the design was successful. Based on the S1 and the B1, It would seem that lowering the frequency range from 60 Hz to 40 Hz adds about 15 lbs to a cabinet. (producing low frequencies is not all that difficult, producing them at the desired SPL is the kicker)

Personally I think a single, full range, battery powered cabinet, possibly 3 way, in the 30/35 lb range, would be a more successful product. But what do I know?

I think the bean counters still make the decisions, and rightly so. The fact that a very successful small speaker is used beyond it's intended design purpose, doesn't necessarily mean providing a satellite bass cabinet would be equally successful. 

So "if" we use the B1 size and weight as a base line, "if" it is possible to redesign as a powered unit that uses the S1 battery and manages 5 hours of life, delivering loud, punchy bass lines, how many would actually buy it? 

O..

Claude, a search for a Proel HP10 produced nothing for me. The Proel website did not list a speaker with that designation. 

Archtop Eddy posted:

Hi Randy. Thanks for the report!  Could you share how you're connecting the Electro-Voice ELX200-12SP 12 to your S1 Pro?  Thanks!

Hi Archtop Eddy. Firstly, BTW, I really like your name. I love arch top guitars. Well, to connect the EV sub to the S1 Pro is very simple. I just connect a 1/4 inch TRS from the S1 Pro output to the EV subwoofer's input. I will try to share photos.

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