Discussions about the Bose S1 Pro system

Bose S1 Pro

Designed for musicians, DJs and general PA use, the S1 Pro is the ultimate all-in-one PA, floor monitor and practice amplifier that's ready to be your go-anywhere Bluetooth music system for nearly any occasion. 

This is the place to discuss the S1 Pro system.

 
Thanks O for your thoughts.  As you've pointed out, being able to use the B1 somehow with the S1Pro would be a good solution.  And it seems maybe with what ST has said about trying the A1 Pack-Lite with a couple of B1s, we may all have more options soon to consider.  I hope some other folks with the A1 and B1s will give it a try and report back to us!
 

 

I found this from back in 2006 from Hilmer-at-Bose. This was in response to questions about using the B1 as a full range speaker for a bass or guitar. I went looking because I thought I remembered the high number being 350 Hz. My memory was off by just a little.

...................................

the B1 was really never intended for "full range" usage. Otherwise we would have designed a little differently.

That doesn't mean you can't use it that way. It's a relatively small woofer and it's good up to 3.5 kHz or thereabouts, which is plenty for many bass applications. It's not quite as smooth in the mid range as I would like for a "full range" speaker. Ultimately, your ears would have to be the judge of that.

Hope that helps
Hilmar

 

O..

Archtop Eddy posted:

Thanks O. That's very hip!  So tell me if I understand this correctly:  To use the SX21, I'd need to have a powered amp (subwoofer) for the lows -- meaning, I can't use a B1, correct?

You can use a B1, but, yes, you would need a separate amp (A1) to power it.

The crossover is key--that is what makes subwoofers work so well in a PA.  If you can eliminate lower frequencies from the S1 Pros, and those are handled by the sub, then the S1s will have more output available and not strain trying to reproduce those bass frequencies.  Your overall mix will sound so much nicer and balanced, and more headroom overall.  If you just "add" a subwoofer by running a line from the S1 to it, you will get more bass, but you are still working the S1 as hard as normal.  I would love to see a small sub designed to pair with the S1!  So many possibilities for that.  Obviously, I know this was not the intended use for the S1, but it is a sweet little PA (when the charge issues aren't showing up :-)).

This isn't made any more, and at 35 pounds not necessarily small, but Carvin had a batter-powered sub at one time for their portable Stagemate system.

https://carvinaudio.com/pages/...w-portable-subwoofer

 

I just want to take a moment to thank everyone for their very knowledgeable and useful information about subwoofers and the S1 Pro. I've learned a lot and have a lot to think about and consider at this point. One thing I stumbled upon while surfing the web is a YouTube of a bass player who says he thinks the best battery-powered bass amp is a Roland BA-330.  I realize that's not the same thing as a subwoofer, but since I am not looking for heart-thumping bass, do you think this could be an option for the S1 Pro and SX21 crossover?

Here's the YouTube link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ27CVRmS60

Eddy, I also own one of those and I'm not sure that it would be good for that.  It sounds nice, and it does run off batteries, but in my opinion, it just does not have much volume.  Not near the S1 Pro.  I also used it for tailgating (like I do the S1), and once any real bass kicks in on the music, it really seems to lose steam.  Roland makes great products, and it sounds really good--just not very loud to my ear.

I like it, it is fine for vocals and guitar, but I just wasn't as happy with it as I thought I would be.  Hence, that is why I went with the S1s!

At the end of the day once you have added more bass to the S1 sound just keep in mind now you are “playing” engineer ... I’d rather leave that up to the geniuses at Bose. This is not to say you shouldn’t try new things, but my experience with Bose gear is it always sounds the best if used as intended.

When I used a pair of S1 Pros with an F1 sub (matching the volume with the S1) I found that although it didn’t sound bad something was missing... I later figured out what that was... the Bose engineering (magic sauce) was gone. 

Sound is a mixture of science, math and time. The longer I play with it, the more the more I see this to be true.

Good sound is not an accident... in other words “Beter Sound Through Research”.

This is some sound thinking JD and very well stated.  I think I'm moving toward the same direction -- using the Bose gear as intended.  While using the Behringer BD1200D is still under consideration, in my case it may be too little return for the effort exerted in lugging it around (and the loss of a battery power option).  Please see my fuller comments in the thread entitled  S1 Pro with Mixer and Behringer B1200D Pro Subwoofer.

On the other hand, I'm still super stoked about the sound I'm getting adding the 2 Behringers to my 2 S1s and finding the sweet spot in the controls on the Behringers.

I'm now looking into buying a vehicle that's large enough to carry my kit, the S1s and the Behringers.  Alas, my Miata is too small.  :-)

Chet posted:

On the other hand, I'm still super stoked about the sound I'm getting adding the 2 Behringers to my 2 S1s and finding the sweet spot in the controls on the Behringers.

I'm now looking into buying a vehicle that's large enough to carry my kit, the S1s and the Behringers.  Alas, my Miata is too small.  :-)

Oh yeah -- the Miata is WAY TOO small.  I had one back in 1990 when they came out.  Loved that car!  One day someone called me "Miata Man", like some superhero name. I told him like any superhero I have limits to my power -- in my case: I could only rescue one damsel in distress at a time... and she couldn't bring too much luggage.

BTW Chet, I'm really glad the Behringers are working out for you!  Would you care to share more about the sweet spot you're dialing in on the controls?

Interesting conversation, but the S1's appeal is it's size and it's ability to be used on batteries. I feel muddiness, stability, and power consumption are the problems the S1 would have to master to achieve more lower end. Good effects and low end bass needs power and fast transients. Batteries would die quickly under such demand. By-amping might deal with it but weight and size and cone size would have to be changed, and then there is the battery issue.

I would use an 8 inch cone but for some that may not be low enough. I would also focus on versatility (ins/outs)... ... Again a major rethinking.

Adjustable crossover is a nice feature on a sub I have one on my home stereo, a 15 inch cone to match to my satellites. Again my bass unit is powered (not passive) and is not tied to one power supply. Remember bass transients take more power and are slower transients and that is the problem, aiming the cone down aids in base response. I used to take my friends base unit on his Bose L1 (one of the first Bose styx )  and place the base unit in the corner to aid in bass response. Making this happen in the S1 without adding supplementary bass unit and keeping the battery as an important factor would be an undertaking IMO. So that is my problem with Bose's tone match,  I would like to see this as both auto and manually tweak-able. 

We use the Bose S1 at race events in the paddock, everybody really enjoys the quality of the speaker, i have 2 S1 PRO`s connected with the bose app in bluetooth mode using spotify.

It would be great to make a new firmware including app, were we could still connect the 2 Bose S1 Pro speakers over bluetooth, next to that, it would be great to have a setting in the app were if switched on, 1 of the S1 PRO speakers line out only sends signals bellow 150Hz (the S1 speakers only get signals above 150Hz), one S1 line out could then be plugged in a A1 Packlite with a 1 or 2 B1 subs. The gain slider will make it possible to set the balance between S1`s and Sub. In the new firmware maybe the same EQ settings of the line out can be programmed that make sure the B1 sound great..!!

To me it`s sounds as a great plan..!!

I think Bluetooth is too slow and the S1s would be out of sync.   Get one of the new small guitar wireless units like the XVive or similar.  

I also thinking you’re asking for things the app cannot do.  Some, like a high pass, would require changes in the hardware.  

DavidE2 posted:

I think Bluetooth is too slow and the S1s would be out of sync.   Get one of the new small guitar wireless units like the XVive or similar.  

I also thinking you’re asking for things the app cannot do.  Some, like a high pass, would require changes in the hardware.  

With Bluetooth and 2 S1 speakers it is working. What would be different if the A1/B1 got wired signals from 1 S1 Line out?

If the app cannot change a setting in the S1, then a dedicated firmaware in the S1 could do the crossover/EQ part, if possible with the DSP.

Adding small guitar amp\speaker i did try, it was a waste of money.

For now my A1/B1 are collecting dust in the garage.

Last weekend, I tried out my new pair of XVive U3 wireless units - one from mixer to main PA and the other from a microphone to the mixer.

They worked GREAT. 

As expected from my experience with a bunch of XVive U2 wireless I've been using for quite a while on guitars to PA and one of my favorite time and hassle savers, from Stomp Boxe Pedal Board to PA.

jdbassentertainment.com posted:

At the end of the day once you have added more bass to the S1 sound just keep in mind now you are “playing” engineer ... I’d rather leave that up to the geniuses at Bose.

I'd like to hear if Bose is considering a sub for the S1 using a setup process similar to the Behringer BD1200D.  For me the ideal S1 sub would be small, lightweight, battery-powered, and engineered to augment the S1 -- and connect to S1 via an adjustable cross-over feature like the Behringer.  Now that would be something!

Hi, veteq,

veteq posted:
DavidE2 posted:

I think Bluetooth is too slow and the S1s would be out of sync.   Get one of the new small guitar wireless units like the XVive or similar.  

I also thinking you’re asking for things the app cannot do.  Some, like a high pass, would require changes in the hardware.  

With Bluetooth and 2 S1 speakers it is working. What would be different if the A1/B1 got wired signals from 1 S1 Line out?

There wouldn't be any latency with a wired connection.



If the app cannot change a setting in the S1, then a dedicated firmaware in the S1 could do the crossover/EQ part, if possible with the DSP.

Thanks for the suggestion. Please drop a note in this discussion.

S1 Pro system: Feature Requests and Suggestions



While I can't comment on this in any official capacity, it is highly unlikely that this is possible given the architecture of the S1 Pro.  Even if it were possible, this would make render the S1 Pro LINE OUT unusable for its intended purpose (full-range output for daisy chaining).  There would be no simple way to switch the behaviour of the line out (full range/subwoofer).

Adding small guitar amp\speaker i did try, it was a waste of money.

For now my A1/B1 are collecting dust in the garage.

The A1 was engineered to extend the functionality of the L1 Classic/Model I to power additional bass modules. This was part of the original design of the L1 Classic/Model I, and the L1 Model II that followed.  These three models all use the B1 or B2 bass modules and have Bass LINE OUT connections.

The L1 Model 1S, L1 Compact, and the S1 Pro do not support bass expansion.

veteq posted:

Hey Guys, 

How do we know if and when Bose has a solution for the A1/B1 solution?

Are they reading this forum, will they come with a firmware updat any soon?

The A1 and B1 are extension options for the L1 Classic/Model I, and the L1 Model II.  They are not supported for use with other models.

I'm sorry. I know that's not the answer you want to hear.

ST

Hi Archtop Eddy,

Archtop Eddy posted:
jdbassentertainment.com posted:

At the end of the day once you have added more bass to the S1 sound just keep in mind now you are “playing” engineer ... I’d rather leave that up to the geniuses at Bose.

I'd like to hear if Bose is considering a sub for the S1 using a setup process similar to the Behringer BD1200D.  For me the ideal S1 sub would be small, lightweight, battery-powered, and engineered to augment the S1 -- and connect to S1 via an adjustable cross-over feature like the Behringer.  Now that would be something!

That's a great suggestion. Please drop a note in this discussion.

S1 Pro system: Feature Requests and Suggestions

For everyone reading along; Bose never comments on products that may be in development.  And they're always working on something.

Cheers,

ST

Hey ST,

Good to hear, no problem man.

 

another question to you all.

When using 2 S1 pro`s with Bose bluetooth app, with both speaker volumes at 11.00 hours, the sound and bass is really good, almost never distorsion.

If i would use the line out to the A1 with a simple TRS cable, then the output gain of the line out would also be at around 40% (11.00 hours).

When i plug this TRS cable in the A1/B1, the volume is at 40%.
Is there a device in music land that boost the gain of the line out?

And is there a simple inline filter with a low pass function of 150Hz?

 

Best regards,

 

Roy

Just putting a thought out there ... although I feel this solution may not be viable...

Q) Could Bose Implement a complete Volume + Eq Solution for the S1 Pro in their Phone App?
Their current Volume & Bass/Treble knobs seem Analogue. If Bose could somehow get that to work in tandem with the app, Volume & Eq could be controlled digitally through the app giving a user better control ... 

If the above were possible, perhaps the app could tweak the Line-Out frequencies (attenuate the high frequencies), to output an "EQ'd" signal for a subwoofer. Then the user could reduce the BASS/Low frequencies manually on the S1's Channel 1 & 2 ... thereby reducing the BASS load on the S1's woofer, effectively giving the S1 Pro more headroom.

Just a thought ...

Hi Roy (veteq),

veteq posted:

Hey ST,

Good to hear, no problem man.

another question to you all.

When using 2 S1 pro`s with Bose bluetooth app, with both speaker volumes at 11.00 hours, the sound and bass is really good, almost never distorsion.

If i would use the line out to the A1 with a simple TRS cable, then the output gain of the line out would also be at around 40% (11.00 hours).

With volume controls at 11:00, the signal at the S1 Pro Line Out is pretty close to the signal presented at the input. 



When i plug this TRS cable in the A1/B1, the volume is at 40%.
Is there a device in music land that boost the gain of the line out?

A small mixer should be able to do this.



And is there a simple inline filter with a low pass function of 150Hz?

This is not a recommendation:  Some people have tried a Rolls SX21 with an L1 Compact. I'd expect similar results

The Compact and the B2, via the A1 and the Rolls SX21



Best regards,

Roy

Roy, if you have an A1 and B1, then it seems likely you have an L1. If you do, then you could connect the S1 Pro LINE OUT to the L1 with B1. That's probably going to sound better than you'd get with an external crossover and PackLite Amp.  Yes, I understand, it's heavier than other options.

ST 

Hi Prakash Wadhwani,

Prakash Wadhwani posted:

Just putting a thought out there ... although I feel this solution may not be viable...

Q) Could Bose Implement a complete Volume + Eq Solution for the S1 Pro in their Phone App?
Their current Volume & Bass/Treble knobs seem Analogue. If Bose could somehow get that to work in tandem with the app, Volume & Eq could be controlled digitally through the app giving a user better control ... 

While I can't comment on this in any official capacity, it is not likely given the architecture of the S1 Pro.  The Bose Connect app works with the Bluetooth signal being sent by the device running the app. It does not affect the S1 Pro directly.



If the above were possible, perhaps the app could tweak the Line-Out frequencies (attenuate the high frequencies), to output an "EQ'd" signal for a subwoofer. Then the user could reduce the BASS/Low frequencies manually on the S1's Channel 1 & 2 ... thereby reducing the BASS load on the S1's woofer, effectively giving the S1 Pro more headroom.

Just a thought ...

Same thing; it's not possible to access the internal functionality of the S1 Pro via Bluetooth.

ST

Durnbock posted:

The crossover is key--that is what makes subwoofers work so well in a PA.  If you can eliminate lower frequencies from the S1 Pros, and those are handled by the sub, then the S1s will have more output available and not strain trying to reproduce those bass frequencies.  Your overall mix will sound so much nicer and balanced, and more headroom overall.  If you just "add" a subwoofer by running a line from the S1 to it, you will get more bass, but you are still working the S1 as hard as normal.  I would love to see a small sub designed to pair with the S1!  So many possibilities for that.  Obviously, I know this was not the intended use for the S1, but it is a sweet little PA (when the charge issues aren't showing up :-)).

This isn't made any more, and at 35 pounds not necessarily small, but Carvin had a batter-powered sub at one time for their portable Stagemate system.

https://carvinaudio.com/pages/...w-portable-subwoofer

 

I agree a battery powered sub would take this S1 Pro product to a whole nother level.....I actually think the smaller speaker in the S1 does fairly good bass at some of the higher bass frequencies and I don't think it would matter that much to do the crossover at the S1....Let the S1 do its thing and just put a low pass filter in the sub so it can kick the lower bass that the S1 cannot. That is completely doable for Bose. They can also sell these for use with the compact...

On another note:

I fly sometimes and you'll laugh at this, I bought an extra pair of extensions for my compact and cut them in half and rewired them up and now they fit my suitcase. Then I took apart the compact, it actually disassembles pretty easy and I cut a couple parts in half and the whole thing fits in a suitcase. Takes about 10 minutes to put it back together. I am pretty sure I voided the warranty.  : )

Moon Dog said:

On another note:

I fly sometimes and you'll laugh at this, I bought an extra pair of extensions for my compact and cut them in half and rewired them up and now they fit my suitcase. Then I took apart the compact, it actually disassembles pretty easy and I cut a couple parts in half and the whole thing fits in a suitcase. Takes about 10 minutes to put it back together. I am pretty sure I voided the warranty.  : )

Yes, I did laugh. Doubt you're the first one to wish it fit, but probably the first to make it fit. I'd love to see pics of that disassembled in the open suitcase.

O..

Can I use the LC Compact sub without the additional speaker attached as a subwoofer for S1 Pros?   I understand there’s no crossover, but I could plug into the L1C and run out to the S1s with the bass turned down.  

Would this work?   I miss the thump. 

DavidE2, that's really a clever idea. I believe the Compact crosses over at 400 Hz, so it would function more like a bass speaker(withithout some sort of low pass filter). But the frequency response is a bit lower than the S1 Pro, so it may add a little more bottom. I've gotta try this out for fun...

Oldghm posted:

Moon Dog said:

On another note:

I fly sometimes and you'll laugh at this, I bought an extra pair of extensions for my compact and cut them in half and rewired them up and now they fit my suitcase. Then I took apart the compact, it actually disassembles pretty easy and I cut a couple parts in half and the whole thing fits in a suitcase. Takes about 10 minutes to put it back together. I am pretty sure I voided the warranty.  : )

Yes, I did laugh. Doubt you're the first one to wish it fit, but probably the first to make it fit. I'd love to see pics of that disassembled in the open suitcase.

O..

Well apparently Bose does not want pics posted here...thats cool. If you want some pics shoot me your email. 

Moon Dog posted:

Yep using the woofer in the compact is an interesting idea to try....but its not battery powered...Thats what Bose needs to jump on....a Battery powered sub. Just include  low pass filter circuit and boom you got this. 

 

I get that,  but I don't mind.   In fact,  there are times I'll plug in an S1 to eliminate ground hum.

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