Discussions about the Bose S1 Pro system

Bose S1 Pro

Designed for musicians, DJs and general PA use, the S1 Pro is the ultimate all-in-one PA, floor monitor and practice amplifier that's ready to be your go-anywhere Bluetooth music system for nearly any occasion. 

This is the place to discuss the S1 Pro system.

Several folks have started using the Behringer 1200D subwoofer with the S1 to bolster its lower end. It got me to thinking that it would be nice for Bose to develop a similar type of optional subwoofer for the S1, but perhaps base (no pun intended) it on a B1 or 2.

Further, it would be nice to have this new B1/2 interchangeable with a L1 as many of us use both depending on the venue size. 

I expect one of the challenges would be how to make this new subwoofer work off battery power to compliment that wonderful feature in the S1. Also, another challenge to keep its weight down. 

Original Post

Thinking about a bass module for the S1.

Many of us have B1's. That's about as small / light as we can expect and still get down to 40Hz, and have appropriate output to match the S1.

We also have A1 amps. All we need is a properly voiced crossover / eq to use with the B1 to get a good match for the S1.

If the crossover was available separately or in a B1 / A1 / crossover package, at a reasonable price, it might be a good seller.

Something similar, in a S1 dedicated and marketed package might sell better than a repurposed B1.

Of course to make this really work good, we need a bass line out on the S1. That would eliminate the need for outboard crossover and eq. If they had done this to begin with we wouldn't be having this conversation.

So maybe the answer is, redesign the S1 with bass line out, redesign the B1 to look like the S1, and put a battery in it.

I sometimes think Bose doesn't do well when making various components that work in multiple combinations. They seem to like unit construction and dedicated connections so we only use them in a predictable manner.

All that being said, I don't think a bass module bigger than a B1, but designed for use with the S1, would be a big enough seller to warrant building. That puts us right back where we are today with individuals making use of available components to satisfy their needs.

O.. 

Oldghm posted:
"redesign the S1 with bass line out, redesign the B1 to look like the S1, and put a battery in it."  O.. 

I like these ideas.  However, given that so many current model S1s are already in circulation (without a bass line out), perhaps examining the Behringer speaker management features on the B1200D-PRO and installing something similar in a smaller battery powered subwoofer would make it more accessible for current users. With the Behringer system, you just connect your guitar and vocals to the stereo inputs of the sub, then connect the S1 Pro (or any other amp) to the hi-pass-filtered outputs. By adjusting the variable hi-cut frequency on the sub, you balance the output of lows for the sub and mids and highs for the S1 Pro (or other amp).

I think Bose would hit the mark by creating a subwoofer that has these speaker management features in a B1 size/weight, tuned to Bose systems (S1 Pro, L1 Compact), and battery powered (maybe two lithium batteries).

I also like O's suggestion for a dedicated simple cross-over that would allow us to use the current B1 module.  Since there are no dedicated bass line outputs on the S1 or Compact, perhaps the cross-over could work like the Behringer speaker management features outlined above.

An interesting conundrum. If we accept the B1200D idea we sacrifice the built in two channel mixer to use the sub. For those already using a mixer not a big deal, for those looking for the greatest simplicity in a full range system, it's another component to worry about carrying, connecting, and powering.

An S1 with a bass line out would encourage those of us who only have one S1 to buy another.

I am not smart enough to decide how to manage the bass line out and a full range line out in the same unit, but I would want both, and while I was adding the bass line out I would put in a third channel.

O..

Oldghm posted:

Thinking about a bass module for the S1.

Many of us have B1's. That's about as small / light as we can expect and still get down to 40Hz, and have appropriate output to match the S1.

We also have A1 amps. All we need is a properly voiced crossover / eq to use with the B1 to get a good match for the S1.

If the crossover was available separately or in a B1 / A1 / crossover package, at a reasonable price, it might be a good seller.

Something similar, in a S1 dedicated and marketed package might sell better than a repurposed B1.

Of course to make this really work good, we need a bass line out on the S1. That would eliminate the need for outboard crossover and eq. If they had done this to begin with we wouldn't be having this conversation.

So maybe the answer is, redesign the S1 with bass line out, redesign the B1 to look like the S1, and put a battery in it.

O.. 

What if Bose made a new A1 packlite that was battery powered, 250 watts,  had cross over built in for the S1 and Compact but retained its normal base line out input for L1s. You could use B2, B1 ect.

Is that what you are referring to O?

edit: added the highlighted part

Hi O.  When you said, "An interesting conundrum. If we accept the B1200D idea we sacrifice the built in two channel mixer to use the sub."

Here's what I do. I don't know if it addresses the concerns you noted, but here goes... 

On the S1 Pro, I use channel 1 for vocals and channel 2 for guitar.

I'm not interested in the subwoofer feature on my vocals.  So I connect my mic straight to channel 1 on the S1 Pro and avoid the subwoofer all together.  I adjust the EQ for the vocals/mic via the S1 Pro's mid and trem controls.

For channel 2 (my guitar channel), I want a deeper and more present bass sound. This is where the Behringer B1200D Pro subwoofer comes into play. (BTW, I use a Boss OC-3 Octave to get this lower bass sound.)

I input my guitar first into a channel on the subwoofer and then output it from the subwoofer to channel 2 on my S1 Pro.  I use the Behringer's high cut feature to minimize the bass frequencies to the S1 Pro; and use the subwoofer's boost frequency and level knobs to adjust the bass sound.  For my purposes, I keep the mid and trem controls set flat on the S1 Pro.

Oldghm: "An interesting conundrum. If we accept the B1200D idea we sacrifice the built in two channel mixer to use the sub."

OR - I suspect one could use a TRS - XLR cable to run the (mixed) line output from the S1 to the B1200D to "pump up" the low end...

Starvin: "What if Bose made a new A1 packlite that was battery powered, 250 watts,  had cross over built in for the S1 and Compact but retained its normal base line out input for L1s. You could use B2, B1 ect."

Well (grinning), A1 amplifier $399 + B1 bass unit $299 (smaller but not as punchy as the B1200D) = $698 vs. $299 for B1200D.

Chet posted:
 
Starvin: "What if Bose made a new A1 packlite that was battery powered, 250 watts,  had cross over built in for the S1 and Compact but retained its normal base line out input for L1s. You could use B2, B1 ect."

 

Well (grinning), A1 amplifier $399 + B1 bass unit $299 (smaller but not as punchy as the B1200D) = $698 vs. $299 for B1200D.

(Grinning here too...) A smaller, light-weight, battery-powered, Bose-built unit = "priceless!"

I like the idea of a bass line out from the S1 with a modified B1 or B2 to take that bass out. That would side step the taking away of all the S1 inputs.

It’s intuitively appealing to me to have some shared tech between the S1 and the L1. Of course, there’s a lot more details to figure out with this approach. 

Regardless, this is a very interesting discussion. Thanks to all who are participating. 

Archtop Eddy posted:
Chet posted:
Starvin: "What if Bose made a new A1 packlite that was battery powered, 250 watts,  had cross over built in for the S1 and Compact but retained its normal base line out input for L1s. You could use B2, B1 ect."<
 

 

Well (grinning), A1 amplifier $399 + B1 bass unit $299 (smaller but not as punchy as the B1200D) = $698 vs. $299 for B1200D

 

 I'm sorry I was only thinking of what would work for my situation and others like me. I have B1s and B2s already and I happen to love the sound of the B1/2 products . A battery powered  A1 with cross over and eq that was set up for B1/2 and was compatible with the L1 products would be ideal.

Chet posted:

OR - B1200D - Power consumption 110 Watts.

Theoretically a 100 AH battery (through inverter) will run one sub for at least 4 or 5 hours...

Getting to be lots of (getting heavy) pieces to carry around though.<

I guess we should also include the cost of a 100 Ah battery & inverter.

for me and others like me a redesigned A1 packlite= $699? Canadian vs B1200D = $472 Canadian + 100 Ah battery & inverter = ?

 

Archtop Eddy posted

(Grinning here too...) A smaller, light-weight, battery-powered, Bose-built unit = "priceless!"

I'm with Archtop Eddy here.

Starvin: I agree.  If Bose was selling a light-weight, battery powered highpass filter and amp (last year) that could drive two B1s or a B2 at a price less than $600 or so, I may have held on to my 2 B1s instead.  :-)

And true.  Battery: $350, Inverter $125, Charger $50 (or solar panel/charge controller) has to be added to the tab.  Although I already have all of those.

Chet posted:

Starvin: I agree.  If Bose was selling a light-weight, battery powered highpass filter and amp (last year) that could drive two B1s or a B2 at a price less than $600 or so, I may have held on to my 2 B1s instead.  :-)

And true.  Battery: $350, Inverter $125, Charger $50 (or solar panel/charge controller) has to be added to the tab.  Although I already have all of those.

$700 or so ?

While I was gone you guys have touched on why we don't have every gadget we want.

There has to be a demand in the market place that goes beyond a few special needs musicians.

The only reason I would like to have a sub for the S1 is so I could use my Travelog. I would still need the third channel.  

I have a 12 inch sub that I can run the S1 line out to, and I have a small bass amp that would do in a pinch, but neither is a proper solution when compared to just using my Model II. For me a proper crossover to use with a B1 and A1 might be a viable option because I already own the A1 and B1. For someone to buy those units to supplement an S1 I don't think is something Bose could bank on.

If the S1 had a slight I/O redesign and marketed with a matching sub as a truly professional small system, it might work.

 

O..

 

 

Oldghm posted:

While I was gone you guys have touched on why we don't have every gadget we want.

There has to be a demand in the market place that goes beyond a few special needs musicians.

O..

 

 

While I see your point and you may be right in general, I think in this case the market demand may go beyond the needs of just a few musicians.

Bose has tapped into a great market of solo buskers, giggers, etc., with the battery powered S1 Pro. I suspect they have sold many hundreds if not thousands of these units.  A lot of folks I know (including me...) have more than just one!

The draw about the S1 Pro is it sounds great, is easy to set up, it's lightweight, and can be battery powered.  That is a killer combination!  Especially, the battery powered part for outdoor buskers and giggers. Yes, not everyone will get full use of the battery, but many people enjoy having that option for when they want to use it, and for outdoor buskers/giggers, it's a game changer.

I suspect battery power is such an important part of the S1 Pro's charm, it's the reason Bose started offering the S1 Pro with the battery installed.  They want customers to think of this systems as a "go-anywhere" mobile system. They knew their superior sound and battery capability was what set the S1 Pro apart from the other small acoustic amps on the market.

For these reasons -- thousands sold, the great "Bose Sound", light weight, robust battery life, and mobility -- I think a matching subwoofer (or improved battery-powered A1 packlite) would be a solid addition to the S1 Pro and L1 Compact lineup.

As further example, Fishman is now marketing their upgraded "tower" system with a subwoofer, and many of the other companies with their "tower" PAs are also offering subwoofers with their smaller units.

We all know that these are direct copies of Bose's line array systems (particularly the Compact), but none of them are battery powered.

Seems to me, a battery-powered, lightweight, great sounding Bose subwoofer is the next logical step!

Oldghm posted:

The only reason I would like to have a sub for the S1 is so I could use my Travelog. I would still need the third channel. 

O..

 

 

Hi O.  For what it's worth, the setup I note above with the Behringer actually leaves an open subwoofer channel so you could insert a foot-stomp pedal like the Travelog into the second subwoofer channel.  However, you wouldn't have much EQ control on the stomp pedal...

Starvin posted:
Oldghm posted:

 

If the crossover was available separately or in a B1 / A1 / crossover package, at a reasonable price, it might be a good seller.

 

O.. 

What if Bose made a new A1 packlite that was battery powered, 250 watts,  had cross over built in for the S1 and Compact but retained its normal base line out input for L1s. You could use B2, B1 ect.

Is that what you are referring to O?

edit: added the highlighted part

Actually, I was thinking existing components with the addition of a crossover sold at a reduced price as a "package".

O..

 

I wrote the following last night but decided not to post it up as it is slightly off topic. The idea of how many units a company must sell has entered the conversation so I'll print this. I don't know what kind of numbers Bose has in mind, but they are a world wide company and I expect it is very, very high.

About twenty or so years ago I was shown an old Yamaha guitar with a pickup in that I had never seen before. It was heavy, made of various tubing, wire, metal plates, and had multiple adjustments, but it sounded better than anything I had heard at that time. There was no name on it and though it seemed well built I could not determine if it was factory made or a one off hand built unit.

I talked to the folks at LR Baggs and described best I could the device, and from my description they believed it was acting as a microphone. The mass of the device was physically attached and wired to the end pin jack and was not in physical contact with a metal plate attached to the bridge plate. They surmised the vibrating top made the metal plate act as a diaphragm moving within a magnetic field / coil on the end of the tubing. 

The discussion covered a lot of ideas. The one that stuck in my mind all these years later was that they told me when they (LR Baggs) went to market with a pickup they fully expected to sell multiple hundreds of thousands of units. ............  Obviously not all ideas get to market.

O..

Hi, Archtop Eddy,

Archtop Eddy posted:
Chet posted:

Starvin: I agree.  .

Now if we could only get Bose to read this thread and agree too!

From Bose:

We're listening.

Please understand, we cannot comment on products that may be in development. But we're always working on something.

Cheers,

ST

@ST we all understand. I was a product manager in a large IT firm for many years so I’m well aware of the issues Bose faces. It’s a delicate balance among market demand, product features, engineering requirements, support, documentation, and of course cost/profit margin.

From a product management perspective, one thing I always valued was constructive customer feedback/suggestions. That helped drive a lot of features in our software. I think Bose does this pretty well, but the mantra should be always listen to your customers. You might not do everything customers would like, but always be listening. 

The... "I need more bass thing" has been plaguing the portable Bose PA family from the start. It seems to be a constant theme here. Bose has answered the call many times in the past. I think Bose tries very hard not to shoot them selves in the foot... since they already have larger systems for sale that offer more output, I think they would rather sell one those then have consumers buy a smaller system and then scale them up to provide larger output levels. 

Archtop Eddy posted:

Thanks ST.  While we don't expect a commitment from Bose, it's good to know they're listening!

P.S. to O:  I connected my Shadow Stompin' Bass foot pad to the extra channel on the subwoofer and it worked like a charm...

 

The requirements for me to choose the S1 and a sub over the Model II would require at least these features:

The S1 would have to have at least one more channel. Bass line out. Still usable as a standalone. The Sub would be a cross between the B1 and the Model II power stand. It would need to safely support the S1 on a pole. The Model II style legs might be an option, but vibration could make that unacceptable.

As I start adding features that would make me want to purchase a S1 compatible sub, I realize I am talking about a new and improved, more powerful, deeper bass, Compact.

I don't think there is a design, or I can't imagine one,  that would match a sub to the S1 that would work better than an improved Compact.

So, could they design and build a battery powered improved Compact with three or four channels?

One thing I have learned since I started using the Bose line arrays is you can turn down the Model II to suit most any space. The smaller systems don't work so well in the other direction.

O..

 

For me, it's not a question about how the S1 Pro compares to the Compact or the Model II.  It's the fact that the S1 Pro is...

Battery-powered.

For some people this may not be important -- for me it's what the S1 is about:  Light-weight, good sounding, battery-powered.

It's as Bose themselves acknowledge in their very image at the top of this forum. A picture of a guy busking outdoors with the words, "Ready to Perform. Anywhere. Anytime."

Staying with this purpose and theme is why I'd like to see a compatible light-weight, good sounding, battery-powered subwoofer to complete the whole S1 sound.

Archtop Eddy posted:

For me, it's not a question about how the S1 Pro compares to the Compact or the Model II.  It's the fact that the S1 Pro is...

Battery-powered.

For some people this may not be important -- for me it's what the S1 is about:  Light-weight, good sounding, battery-powered.

It's as Bose themselves acknowledge in their very image at the top of this forum. A picture of a guy busking outdoors with the words, "Ready to Perform. Anywhere. Anytime."

Staying with this purpose and theme is why I'd like to see a compatible light-weight, good sounding, battery-powered subwoofer to complete the whole S1 sound.

I tend to agree with what I highlighted. That's why when you make the S1 "system" into something as heavy and cumbersome as the Compact or Model II, it is no longer as attractive as the S1 is by itself. Even a battery powered sub would most likely weigh at least as much as a B1, about 30 lbs I think. At some point the portability and convenience of the S1 is lost to the added components, weight, and complexity of setup, tear down, transport, etc. If a new sub is not made large / heavy enough to be a stable platform for a raised S1, then in most cases where it would provide the desired performance enhancement, one would still need to carry a stand of some sort for the S1.

I realize I am the devil's advocate here, throwing sticks in the spokes.

I'm not convinced a busker would rather have a roller cart with two speakers on it, that are probably louder than the municipality will allow anyway, than he would a suitcase to carry the S1 in and then use the case as a bass drum.

I don't know if it's feasible but maybe putting the S1 array in the same cabinet as the B1 components with the S1 exterior geometry. Double the weight with a half octave lower output and the added channels. Again I'm right back to a version of an improved Compact

I know you have specific needs / wants for your performances, as do I. I just wonder if enough people have similar desires to justify a specialty sub.

Those interested in a small sub, I'm curious what price point would you expect Bose to meet? 

On the other hand, If I was doing now, what I did in 1975, two S1s with matching subs would be a great little system.

O..

Hey Everybody,

I ran a line out of my S1 Pro to the A1 PackLite Amp to a pair of B1s. There was no crossover or EQ in the mix. 

Overall, the bass was more substantial and it sounded better than I expected without a crossover.

If you've got the gear and want to check it out, please let us know what you hear.

Thanks,

ST

Hi Archtop Eddy,

I hear what you're saying. You want a battery powered subwoofer to work with your Super Octave OC-3.  That's it, yes?

Archtop Eddy 1

And for others, we can swap in some other kind of bass/kick drum type (foot operated) percussion. 

The subwoofer has to be big enough, and loud enough to play this kind of instrument (outdoors) and still be as portable as an S1 Pro and run on batteries.  It would have to be road-ready and tough enough for portable applications, and still be small and light to be attractive to S1 Pro owners.

That's a tall order for sure.

ST

Tony 5 posted:

Has anybody used a NA4LjX Speakon to 1/4 TS Female adapter to connect a B1 to the to the line out of the S1?  I haven't tried it or know if it will even work, but I ordered the adapter.

Hi Tony,

The S1 line out will not drive a speaker. It must run to an amp of some kind, then from the amp to a speaker.

O..

Oldghm posted:
Archtop Eddy posted:

For me, it's not a question about how the S1 Pro compares to the Compact or the Model II.  It's the fact that the S1 Pro is...

Battery-powered.

For some people this may not be important -- for me it's what the S1 is about:  Light-weight, good sounding, battery-powered.

It's as Bose themselves acknowledge in their very image at the top of this forum. A picture of a guy busking outdoors with the words, "Ready to Perform. Anywhere. Anytime."

Staying with this purpose and theme is why I'd like to see a compatible light-weight, good sounding, battery-powered subwoofer to complete the whole S1 sound.

I tend to agree with what I highlighted. That's why when you make the S1 "system" into something as heavy and cumbersome as the Compact or Model II, it is no longer as attractive as the S1 is by itself. Even a battery powered sub would most likely weigh at least as much as a B1, about 30 lbs I think. At some point the portability and convenience of the S1 is lost to the added components, weight, and complexity of setup, tear down, transport, etc. If a new sub is not made large / heavy enough to be a stable platform for a raised S1, then in most cases where it would provide the desired performance enhancement, one would still need to carry a stand of some sort for the S1.

I realize I am the devil's advocate here, throwing sticks in the spokes.

I'm not convinced a busker would rather have a roller cart with two speakers on it, that are probably louder than the municipality will allow anyway, than he would a suitcase to carry the S1 in and then use the case as a bass drum.

I don't know if it's feasible but maybe putting the S1 array in the same cabinet as the B1 components with the S1 exterior geometry. Double the weight with a half octave lower output and the added channels. Again I'm right back to a version of an improved Compact

I know you have specific needs / wants for your performances, as do I. I just wonder if enough people have similar desires to justify a specialty sub.

Those interested in a small sub, I'm curious what price point would you expect Bose to meet? 

On the other hand, If I was doing now, what I did in 1975, two S1s with matching subs would be a great little system.

O..

Thanks O for your thoughts.  As you've pointed out, being able to use the B1 somehow with the S1Pro would be a good solution.  And it seems maybe with what ST has said about trying the A1 Pack-Lite with a couple of B1s, we may all have more options soon to consider.  I hope some other folks with the A1 and B1s will give it a try and report back to us!

Oldghm posted:
Tony 5 posted:

Has anybody used a NA4LjX Speakon to 1/4 TS Female adapter to connect a B1 to the to the line out of the S1?  I haven't tried it or know if it will even work, but I ordered the adapter.

Hi Tony,

The S1 line out will not drive a speaker. It must run to an amp of some kind, then from the amp to a speaker.

O..

****!  Close but no cigar!!  Thanks nonetheless Tony for trying to think out of the box.

ST posted:

The subwoofer has to be big enough, and loud enough to play this kind of instrument (outdoors) and still be as portable as an S1 Pro and run on batteries.  It would have to be road-ready and tough enough for portable applications, and still be small and light to be attractive to S1 Pro owners.

That's a tall order for sure.

ST

Tall order that for sure sure, but I appreciate that at least Bose is listening and maybe grinding some mental gears to see if they can do it.

By the way, your analysis of what I want to do with the Boss Super Octave OC-3 is close, but I also want the sound to go through the looper so I can't run just the "bass" sound only through the subwoofer. 

Yeah, I know.  I'm being a pain...

Archtop Eddy posted:
Oldghm posted:
Tony 5 posted:

Has anybody used a NA4LjX Speakon to 1/4 TS Female adapter to connect a B1 to the to the line out of the S1?  I haven't tried it or know if it will even work, but I ordered the adapter.

Hi Tony,

The S1 line out will not drive a speaker. It must run to an amp of some kind, then from the amp to a speaker.

O..

****!  Close but no cigar!!  Thanks nonetheless Tony for trying to think out of the box.

Thanks.  I appreciate it.

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