Discussions about the Bose S1 Pro system

Bose S1 Pro

Designed for musicians, DJs and general PA use, the S1 Pro is the ultimate all-in-one PA, floor monitor and practice amplifier that's ready to be your go-anywhere Bluetooth music system for nearly any occasion. 

This is the place to discuss the S1 Pro system.

S1 Pro Busking Power Questions

   My good news is that I have an S1 Pro & Battery on the way today!!   The better news is that it is a gift!  So I will definitely be taking it out, reviewing, and putting it through more than several situations outside, inside, small venue gigs, etc.  

    My question has to do with busking power sources.  I want to be able to use my Infinity Looper, TC Helicon Mic Looper, TC Helicon Chorus pedal, VoiceLive 3 Extreme, and The T1 Tonematch just as I do in my shows with the L1 Model 2 /B2 Module and Tonematch.  

   S1Pro battery power...big power situation solved, but the rest!  I need to power the above mentioned pedals by generated source.  I do not want to use the inverter/marine battery rigged thing, and I definitely do not want a gas generator to run these pedals and the T1.   I have done a lot of research and I've narrowed it to a battery generator from Amazon.  (link below).  My units I need power do not show the wattage used by each, only the amps, volts, etc.  I tried to configure it all to convert to wattage needed, but get sketchy looking results.   I for SURE do not want to damage anything I have!   As of now, in regular wall AC, I have a Furman Power Strip that each of my pedals plug into.  I have this power generator from Amazon on the way, but want to be certain before putting it to the test and could use any advices or knowledge from any and all of you guys!  The info I can get from the units I need are as follows: (taken from the power adapter plugs and backs of the units )

Infinity Looper: 18 volts DC - 1.0 Amps
Helicon Chorus Pedal: 9 volts DC - 100 ma
Pigtronix Inifinity Looper: 18 volts - 300 ma
Helicon Mic Looper: 12 volts - 400 ma
T1 Tonematch: 18 volts  - 1.0 Amps

Anyone know how to get the wattage needed from these figures alone?
And also does anyone know that this generator (link below) will work for powering all these comfortably and safely?  It is a 500 watt Pure Sine Wave Unit.   

Any and all information, tips, knowledge is sure appreciated!    Thanks much,   Tom 
Amazon Power AC Generator Portable

power generator

 

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Hi MusicmanThomas,

Infinity Looper: 18 volts DC - 1.0 Amps
Helicon Chorus Pedal: 9 volts DC - 100 ma
Pigtronix Inifinity Looper: 18 volts - 300 ma
Helicon Mic Looper: 12 volts - 400 ma
T1 Tonematch: 18 volts  - 1.0 Amps

This looks like about 140 Watts (at 120 Volts). Allowing for inefficiencies, I'd budget for 300 Watts.  Looking at this another way, I normally budget 100 Watts for a T1 alone. So your list should be about somewhere between 200-300 Watts.



ST

Thanks so much ST!  You've saved me and helped me more than several times over these years.  Don't know what you are paid for what you do where you do it....but it isn't near enough! 

   The portable generator unit I have coming is rated 500 watts and is rated 288 Watt Hours.  If I've done the calculations correctly, this means I should get about 2 hours, perhaps more from a full charge using the devices I mentioned.  Was hoping for 3, but worse case scenario will be to buy a second portable just like it on standby, take a break, replug into the 2nd one and go another 2 hours which is more than plenty 99% of the time. 

   I had them figured on the conversion calculator at only 90 watts total and I knew that just couldn't be right. 

    As soon as I have the S1 Pro up and it's battery charged and the generator charged I will do a practice show and see just how long they both actually last in power.   By being able to also power all my effects, vocal processing, and the T1,  just like my regular show with the L1 Model 2, it will not be a game changer for me....it will be a game expander for me! 

   I will be reporting back as soon as it all arrives and I'm able to give it the road run.  Thanks again so much ST!!   And I welcome anyone elses ideas, tips, tricks or knowledge!   Keep the Fires Burning!   Tom 

Hi Tom, ST,

OK first of all thanks for the trust you're putting in my knowledge here.

So when I was at school and also during apprenticeships etc. one of the main formulas we learned was P = U x I whereby;

P is the electrical power given im Watts (W)

U is the voltage given in Volts (V)

I is the current given in Amps (A)

Let's put this formula to work in connection to Tom's gear using the information you've given.

1) Infinity Looper: 18 volts DC - 1.0 Amps 
2) Helicon Chorus Pedal: 9 volts DC - 100 ma                       
3) Pigtronix Inifinity Looper: 18 volts - 300 ma 
4) Helicon Mic Looper: 12 volts - 400 ma
5) T1 Tonematch: 18 volts  - 1.0 Amps

1) Infinity Looper: P = 18V x 1.0A = 18W

2) Helicon Chorus Pedal: P = 9V x 100mA (0.1A) = 900mW (0.9W)

3) Pigtronix Inifinity Looper: P = 18V x 300mA (0.3A) = 5.4W

4) Helicon Mic Looper: P = 12V x 400mA (0.4A) = 4.8W

5) T1 Tonematch: P = 18V x 1.0A = 18W

For these 5 pieces of Equipment I see a Power Requirement of 47.1W

Tom, you mentioned above that you'd also like to use the VoiceLive 3 Extreme but this hasn't appeared in the list. I've looked it up and they say the power consumption is <14W

VoiceLive 3 Extreme taken from the TC-Helicon Website.

Power

External Power Supply Mains Voltage: 100 to 240 VAC, 50 to 60 Hz (auto-select)
Power Consumption: < 14 W

 

This would make a total power consumption of 61.1W

I can't actually see the inefficiencies being as high as you calculate ST, as the inefficiencies here are going to be basically on the transformer side and that isn't usually too big a deal. If I were looking at inefficiencies between 15% and 20% on the transformer side of things I would be considering that to be pretty high. Maybe someone who reads this can say from experience where this inefficiency may lie. If it were 25% I'd still only be at roughly 75W.

In my opinion, depending on how well the generator delivers when its rechargeable battery is near to exhaustion, you could eventually be looking at 4 hours of usage from one charge. Looking at the specs of the generator 3 hours should be a doddle. To be on the safe side I would power up everything I wanted to use and see how long it takes until it can't deliver any more. I would do this at the type of temperature which I would normally expect to be working at. The colder the ambient temperature the more unwilling rechargeable batteries are at giving out power.

Of course all of this is how I see it and of course ... no guarantees that my calculations are correct. 

I hope that this has been of some help.

And now I'm almost in as much suspense as you Tom.

Tony

Tony,

This is magnificent and I'm ever grateful for your help and input.  And thank you for noticing my error in the list not including the VoiceLive 3 Extreme unit.  Don't know how I missed that!  

    This is assuring to me that the portable generator rated 500 watts/288 WH (watt hours ) will likely get me through most all gigs.  Rarely would I go any more than four hours and most are three or under.  

   But the bottom line for me will be in fully charging both the generator and the New S1Pro and then just performing a practice show till it drains.  And thank you for the "temperature conditions" advice as well.  When I am outdoors if it is extremely hot, that could weigh in another factor for me, though I won't be playing in any real cold weather, cool perhaps, but this ole boy just ain't that brave to be the "Busking Penguin" anywhere!  

   I will definitely be back here to report all my findings and how they both perform and last in power.   

   I appreciate you so very much....as well as ST helping the gazillions of us, and all the other members here that give advice and suggestions.  Love this place and love my Bose.     Thanks much guys!   Tom 

Hi Tom,

I'm hoping that I haven't made any elementary mistakes in my thinking and calculating. I can't see any but you never know.

I'm looking forward to reading about your "test-driving" of the system under battery power.

One Question Tom. The Infinity Looper (18V, 1A) I can't seem to find anywhere and I'm not familiar with it. At 18W that's a lot of power too. What does it do? Thanks for any information you can give me here to still my curiosity.

Tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks for joining the conversation.  Here's the basis of my thinking for the T1®

MattS-at-Bose posted:
✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄

The T1 power supply rating of 81-100 VA is the same as 81-100 watts (volts times amps is watts). So I consider T1 maximum power draw 100 watts.

✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄

Thanks and good luck!
MattS-at-Bose
Source: Compact plus T1® on battery power

Assuming similar consumption for the Infinity Looper, this is why I guestimated at over 200 Watts.  

Cheers,

ST

Wow Guys!  What an additional education I'm getting just from being a musician!   I did my calculations from the output numbers and not the input numbers which did not seem like it was high enough.   

    Since your replies, to double check I went to the Pigtronix website and got the specs directly from there.  I think I made a mistake with it as the site shows it as:
Voltage: 18V DC
Current Draw: 200mA @ 18V

    Current Draw....since that is what I'm really after I think, is MUCH less and I wouldn't have double checked had it not been for Tony, so thanks much friend.   I can't check my adapter again until I'm home from my office.
   Since I am now convinced that my using the power generator will not damage my equipment in any way, that this is now just a matter of how efficient and long lasting the power source will be, I am more at ease.  My main concern is equipment damage.  (expensive stuff!)  

   As a side note:  I also read that the way to check your adapter power supply's efficiency is to check it's temperature when plugged in.  If it gets really warm, it isn't comfortably efficient.  The ratings are usually in Roman Numerals (I, II, III, IV,) etc.  Class V is currently the best efficiency rating. 

     The bottom line is that I have received confirmation that my S1 Pro, the Battery, and the Power Generator will all arrive here tomorrow.   Once I have both the Bose and the power generator fully charged, I will come report the findings, results, and of course review it all.  After some practice wearing the new shoes and getting comfortable, I will be doing a small gig immediately and will report all the findings.   Thank you both so much for all your help....and I'm curious to see the further replies.   You guys are awesome!  infinity looper

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Hi ST,

First let me say that I based my Calculations on the values given by Tom.

As MattS-at-Bose pointed out Volts times Amps is Watts which is what I also said P = U x I  (Watts = Volts times Amps). Fo far so good.

As Bose doesn't part with knowledge regarding circuitry etc. I can't say anything regarding the actual power consumption of the units. I can only be theoretical here. 

Now let's look at the T1 Power Supply specs (your pic).

Input: AC (alternating current)  100 - 240V AC  

                                                    50 - 60Hz  81-100VA 

This is the transformer rating (specs).

Transformer power rating is always given in VA (VoltAmperes) which you can directly translate into Watts (W = V times Amps)

Output: DC (direct current) - and this is where it becomes interesting -                                                                                  

                                                     +18V, 1A DC

                                                     -18V, 1A DC

which would actually mean that the power supply is capable of supplying 

plus18V   ( through 0V )     to      negative (minus) 18V. If you take both the plus and the negative 18V you have 36V at 1A which would mean 36W. This is double the 18W that I calculated.

Now to look at the input and the output of the unit I would say that the designer has given him/herself enough headroom for the unit to be able to supply the T1 without breaking sweat which is the way it should be in my opinion.

If the power supply were to really use the 81-100W we'd be looking at a power dissipation of 45-64W which would be in the form of heat. That's actually a lot. The Power supply would become (in my opinion) pretty hot. The transformer would also be running at its limit ... and also not very efficiently ... not good.

When connected to a Powerstand, that would also be having to supply this power via the Tonematch connection. That's pretty high isn't it?

I think that MattS-at-Bose's suggestion in the 

Compact plus T1® on battery power

thread to use a "a kill-a-watt or similar" type of unit and actually measure what the equipment is actually using is a really good piece of advice to anyone who doesn't want any nasty surprises. Thinking is one thing, but testing, measuring and therefore actually knowing in something else altogether. Here's a link to that thread.

https://www.bosepro.community/...ery-power#1240040776

The T1 is just one piece of equipment being considered. It could well be that this unit needs +18V and -18V. This would mean up to 36W and not 18W. 

I'll leave it at that for now. This post ist long enough as it is, although I must say that such things interest me.

I can also understand your "guestimation" ST. If I'm unsure about something I'll always try to make sure I have enough reserve (power or, if necessary, redundancy with regard to equipment).

Sorry if this is now confusing you Tom, but as you've already written

Musicianthomas posted:

   But the bottom line for me will be in fully charging both the generator and the New S1Pro and then just performing a practice show till it drains. 

you'll not be walking into anything with your eyes shut. I'm also more interested than ever to know the outcome of your test-drive.

Try not to let us wait too long ... LO(very)L

Tony                                                

Okay Guys...here is the first report.  First, I'm amazed beyond what I thought I would be...and that was a lot to begin with!   With battery in the S1 Pro and charged and the 500 watt/288 Watt Hour Chafon Pure Sine Wave Battery Power Generator everything has phenomenal sound.  No hum, no noise of any kind.   The volume is way more than enough for just about any small venue.  I'm operating in my studio at only ¼ volume on the S1 Pro and it more than fills the room with nice rich lows and just the right mids and highs.  Using the T1 means I now have use of a Master EQ and Volume.  Not using the T1,  you have to crank the volume more than with the T1, but even then, there is still lots of play room with volume and EQ settings.    It all gets a huge BRAVO.  

    The only thing I haven't had a chance to do is to take them both through the complete cycle to see just how long the power will last.   That report is coming soon.  I will be getting a second power generator just so there is one always fully charging at all times and just in case the extra power is needed.  

     My only purpose for getting the S1 Pro was for the ability to take my entire show busking or for situations where power source is an issue.  Bose has really delivered here!

  Within the next couple days I'll have a full report of how long the battery power holds out and any other notices where power is concerned.  Thanks so much guys for all your help and the education to boot!    

 

Hi Tom,

thanks for this first impression of the functionality of the system so far. You've made no mention regarding how long your trial run was, but as you've said 

Musicianthomas posted:

    The only thing I haven't had a chance to do is to take them both through the complete cycle to see just how long the power will last.   That report is coming soon.  I will be getting a second power generator just so there is one always fully charging at all times and just in case the extra power is needed.  

     My only purpose for getting the S1 Pro was for the ability to take my entire show busking or for situations where power source is an issue.  Bose has really delivered here!

  Within the next couple days I'll have a full report of how long the battery power holds out and any other notices where power is concerned.  Thanks so much guys for all your help and the education to boot!    

I expect that you'll be giving us all the information regarding power time, sound outside of a controlled environment (your studio) and with a decent gig volume etc. What will really be interesting me will be how long the S1 Pro batteries will last when used under a decent volume. I look forward to reading about that.

For the rest (help), I'm always happy to let my grey cells do a bit of work here on the forum. Thanks again for the quick report.

Tony

   Following up here for anyone interested in additional portable power sources, but mainly for ST and Tony for all your help and to let you know how my Chafon 500 Watt/288 Watt Hour Portable Generator fared.  As well as testing the battery of the S1 Pro (those results in another thread), the same test with this generator was successful above and beyond my expectations.  I used all of the before mentioned devices (5 including the T1 Tonematch) and the generator provided plenty of uninterrupted power for every device thru the entire 8 hour and 15 minute duration of constant use.  
   By constant I mean that even when not playing through it myself, I constantly had a voice loop and a guitar loop going at all times.  It was never without consuming power the entire 8 hours and 15 minutes (so even more than with a live practical performance).  

     I was hoping to push for 4 hours constant use and delightfully got more than double that with still more room to spare.    The generator has a power percentage display that stayed at 100% for 1½ hours.  It then began showing the drop in power slowly.  At 4½ hours it still showed 73.8% and even at the end of the test at the 8 hour and 15 minute point, it still showed 53.2%.   I only used one of the three AC outlets on the generator going into a Furman Power Strip with all five devices plugged into that strip.  If this thing's internal battery lasts as long as I think it will,  this is a very good 259.00 investment.  I will be purchasing a second one to have one always fully charged and with me at all times. 

   This really eased my mind and confidence of having plenty of power for any gig, busking or otherwise, I may encounter where a total performance, including all my devices,  has no AC Wall Power Source available.    

    I'm really grateful to both of you, Tony and ST for taking the time to help me explore and think this through and get a pre-configuration idea in my mind before pulling the trigger.  You are very much appreciated for your dedication to helping myself and so many others here.  

Here is the link to the generator for anyone interested.  From the rigerous testing experience now...I highly recommend it.    

Chafon Portable Power Generator

battery chafon

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Hi Tom,

thanks for this really detailed report on the battery power generator. I'm really glad that it's delivering in such a way for you. It really does seem to be a good decision for you to have made when you decided to buy it.

When we step out into unknown territory it's always interesting to see where the road takes us. If we can do this with a safety net at the beginning (here testing before going out on the road with the gear) it's even better. After such a test I can't really see you being surprised by having no power in the middle of a gig.

Musicianthomas posted:

   This really eased my mind and confidence of having plenty of power for any gig, busking or otherwise, I may encounter where a total performance, including all my devices,  has no AC Wall Power Source available.    

I'm pleased that my way way of thinking when trying to make my calculations appears to have been somewhere along the right lines. I somehow couldn't get it into my head that this unit with its specs could only deliver 2 or 3 hours of power.

I'll leave it at that for now, Tom. I'm sure you'll be giving us a follow up sometime when you've actually used it all in a gig situation.

This review of the generator could well be of help to others here on the forum. There have been many questions over the years regarding such units. You seem to have found one that delivers the goods over a useable period of time. This feedback also shows how important it can be to come back and share your experiences after discussing something here on the forum. This way we can all learn, and it's the way the forum works best. This is new information that we can pass on to others in the future. Thanks Tom.

I wish you many problem-free gigs with your "newfound friend". 

Tony

Thank you for the information on this generator, does it make noise? How long to recharge, and line dropage? I will investigate this as I am currently looking at generators, pure sine inverters and batteries. Looking to find the best combination in the smallest package for my needs.

You are welcome!  And this Chafon Generator turned out to be an excellent choice.  Noise was important to me too.  There is ZERO NOISE....totally silent.   It also has a digital readout as to how much power remains at all times.   I experienced no line droppage in the entire 8 hours and 15 minutes I ran all of my pedals and the T1 Tonematch through. And another important factor for me....it is smaller than carrying a shoebox with a handle!  There is a full description on the Amazon site where I purchased it at the link below.

    I think it was an excellent Pure Sine Wave Generator choice that gives a lot of bang for the 290.00 price tag.  Here is the link to it if you want to read more about it.  ►►Chafon Sine Wave Generator on Amazon

@Musicianthomas

I'm so glad that this is working out well for you Tom. It was interesting for me to put my thoughts to the power consumption question. As we can now see, the actual power consumption (in real use) appears to be much lower than the nominal (or max) ratings given by the manufacturers. This shows itself in the length of use you're getting from 1 charge. Great.

I'm glad I was a part of this journey.

A very nice weekend to anyone reading this post.

Tony.

 

How long are you typically playing without a power source from? I've only had that come up for short proposals, wedding ceremonies and the like. Thinking of getting the smaller (cheaper!) power supply from Chafon, as 8 hours seems like overkill for me. 

I am still on the fence about these little units, all of these thus far. I have read mixed reviews and contacted some reps for some of these and the companies are saying you need to get two to three times the watts over your intended watts. So I am trying to read in between the lines on the specs but the proof is in the people who use them. So if anyone has been using these please post your pros and cons.

I initially got the Chafon Pure Sine Wave power source as I want to be able to busk if I want and still use my effects pedals and vocal processing.   And if I was going to do it I wanted to be able to have plenty of reserve.  I cannot see ever having 8 hours of need....it's just what my results were when running it wide open in my real-time testing experiment.    My actual longest use performing with it was a total of four hours...one hour at a festival, then to another gig where I continued using without recharge for another three hours.  I still had more than plenty of reserve left.   I'm only repeating what I have already posted for those who may not have seen the original postings.  With the results I have gotten from the Chafon Model I purchased, if you are not planning on busking and only doing few minute sets for weddings, store promos, etc....the smaller version generator may do you just fine.  I am just making absolutely certain I have plenty of power for any need that may come up.  

   Again, very pleased with the results....and definitely pleased with the longevity of the S1Pro battery life too.    

Let me ask you this? Are you also running your S1 on this battery? My needs are simple so I thought, Effects 300mp, 9-12 volts no battery insert. Boss VE-20 300mp 9v insert power adapter also battery insert power. My aim is to have plenty of power to power more effects. I want to place my strymon power zuma. All effects go to zuma and zuma plugged into ac or in what I want to do is plug into your Chafon. So you see problems with that?

   No, I also purchased the S1Pro Battery and do not use it plugged into the Chafon power source.  It stands alone.   Plenty of juice in the S1Pro for just about any length gig you could imagine.   What you need to do is figure how many watts total your effects will be pulling....that will give you the rating you need.  If you will scroll to the beginning of this thread, you can see how ST and Tony really helped me with this.   To me, it's worth the $$$ investment of both the Chafon and the additional Battery for the S1 Pro.  I'm a working full time musician and these are simply investments in taking things up the ladder a notch or two and investments in improvement and reliability.  

    Fortunately on Amazon, the Chafon is distributed by the Chafon Company but is fulfilled by Amazon itself.  Meaning, if you aren't happy with it, Amazon is very liberal with their return policies.  Bottom line is...with me pulling wattage from a total of 3 effects + a Voicelive 3 Xtreme  + the T1 Tonematch with my kind of results....what you have listed here that you will be using isn't going to be pulling near what I am.  I think you are definitely a safe ball game.   The only way you'll know...is to pull the trigger. 

   Wishing you the best of luck and be sure to let us know your choices and how it all works out for you!  

 

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