If your mixers line level is +4db (pro standard) and you go into input #1 or #2 xlr or 1/4 in the pas will apply another +4db and this in turn will give you a very hot signal.
Buy 2 xlr IMP pad # 20 and use them on the ends of your xlrs and it will bring you back to a 0db signal and you will be able to set your gains perfectly.
You will fall in love with this system all over again!
If you go into inputs #3 or #4 you will be fine but you loose input #57 and the clip lights.
I do the above and life is good.
quote:
What about the pre-amp? Doesn't an XLR connection kick in the pre-amp while a 1/4" t/r does not? How about a 1/4" t/r/s into channel 1 or 2? Does that kick in the pre-amp or is it only an xlr connection?
The preamps on Inputs 1 & 2 are active when using either XLR (balanced, mic level) or 1/4" (unbalanced, instrument/line level)...
quote:
Are the presets active before the pre-amp or after?
Presets are applied after the preamp stage...

'Hope this helps...
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck-at-Bose:
...The preamps on Inputs 1 & 2 are active when using either XLR (balanced, mic level) or 1/4" (unbalanced, instrument/line level)...


As I understand (and I think I've experienced!), while the preamp is used with both connections, the XLR connection has an additional (fixed) gain stage that is not used with 1/4" (6.5mm) connection.
I use 3 & 4 because I don't (as yet) have any application for the remote. It's just one more bit of equipment to plug in and pack down and I can eq from my laptop effectively. So if I understand correctly, the only loss to me in using 3 & 4 is the presets like 57 (which I don't like anyway) and the clip lights (which I'll seldom, if ever, see)?

Sounds like I'm better off just using inputs 3 & 4.
Hello DJ Richard,

You might want to pack that Remote with you, even if you don't normally use it.

If the Remote is *not* plugged in when you power up the System, the Powerstand runs as though the Remote is attached and all the controls are straight-up (12:00 o'clock).

This means that the Master volume is also at 12:00 o'clock.


So without the Remote attached you won't have access to the full power of the System.


Edit - see Hilmar's comments below.
Last edited by ST
quote:
Originally posted by ST:
Hello DJ Richard,

You might want to pack that Remote with you, even if you don't normally use it.

If the Remote is *not* plugged in when you power up the System, the Powerstand runs as though the Remote is attached and all the controls are straight-up (12:00 o'clock).

This means that the Master volume is also at 12:00 o'clock.

So without the Remote attached you won't have access to the full power of the System.


Not quite correct. If you do proper gain staging, the system will get to full output with all knobs at 12 o'clock.
Since proper gain staging is not trivial, we provide the extra gain to take up the slack if the input is not quite hot enough.

Hope that helps

Hilmar
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Logan - Auckland, New Zealand:
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck-at-Bose:
The preamps on Inputs 1 & 2 are active when using either XLR (balanced, mic level) or 1/4" (unbalanced, instrument/line level)...


Isn't the XLR connected to a specific MIC preamp?

Yes and no (how's that for an answer Wink?)
Both XLR and 1/4" input go through the same preamp but they see a little different conditioning before they get there.

The XLR connects to a is balanced low impedance input stage with a lot of gain. The 1/4" input is unbalanced, has about 20 dB less overall gain but a very high input impedance.

Hope that helps

Hilmar
I am also confused. On another thread I explained the problems I had with my first night using the PAS. Suggestions from those in the know are that I should be running a DJ mixer into the JACK inputs, not XLR.

In simple speak, the mic preamp does not like the grunty high levels that come out of a DJ mixer?
quote:
Originally posted by double c deejays:
I am a little confused. I have been using XLR cables, coming from the outputs of my Mackie 1402 straight into channel 1 on both of my L1's. This is correct right??? Mike early mentioned I should be using some type of pad on the end of the cables??
Pat, your Mackie 1402 (and the 1202 & 1642) have a switch near the XLR outs that allows either 'Line' level or 'Mic' level output. As long as it's set to 'Mic', you can go straight into the PS1 Input 1 (or 2) without the need to pad it down first. Some (but not all) DJ mixing consoles have similar capability...

Anyone using a mixer that has only line-level outputs can connect via 1/4" (6.5mm) without a pad. If you want to run balanced lines (for longer runs and/or to reduce noise), connect via XLR, but you may need to pad the signal down with something like this...

Clear as mud?
quote:
Originally posted by Hilmar-at-Bose:

If you do proper gain staging, the system will get to full output with all knobs at 12 o'clock.
Since proper gain staging is not trivial, we provide the extra gain to take up the slack if the input is not quite hot enough.

Hilmar


Interesting, I don't recall seeing this info before.

Gain staging is certainly one of the most talked about and apparently the least understood of the issues that cause new users problems, and one of the most difficult to explain clearly.

I can't count the times I have started, and then deleted without posting, posts that say the same thing over again.

Maybe this is an issue that could use video to better illustrate the various possibilities. Perhaps it could be produced at Bose Headquarters and included as a DVD with new systems.

Just a thought, Oldghm
quote:
ok ...now i'm confused again
Sorry, Pat! Let me try to explain. With the mixer set to +4 and every previous stage of the mixer set properly (just below overload), you'll notice that the PS1 Trim control has to be at or near zero (all the way down) to prevent overloading the PS1 Input. (Sometimes even then it will overload, hence the need for a pad.) With the mixer set to 'Mic' and the same proper settings at previous mixer stages, you're sending a much lower-level signal out of the mixer and you'll be able to turn up the PS1 Trim control to an optimum setting where it might blink red only on the highest peaks...

In any audio system, best results are achieved when each and every stage is set optimally to allow the highest possible signal into that stage without overloading that stage. This gives us the best signal-to-noise ratio. When using just the PS1, there are only 3 stages - Trim, Channel Level and Master Level. When using a mixer before the PS1, it's a bit more complex in that we need to set each channel's trim, all channels' faders and the mixer's master output to optimum levels and then, with that optimized signal, we can set the 3 stages of the PS1 - first Trim, then Channel Level and finally Master (listening) Level. Better?
Chuck: Gadzooks!

If you plug in a mixer into channel 1. No Wired Remote connected. Mixer master out = 0. Line inputs = 0. Turn channel 1 trim level to, say, 12 0'clock. Loud hiss. Now what?

If you plug mixer into channel 1. No wired remote connected. Mixer master out = 0. Line inputs = 0. Channel 1 trim set at 0. No hiss. Now what?

If you plug in a mixer into channel 1. No Wired Remote connected. Mixer master out = 40%. Line inputs = 60%. Channel 1 trim set at 0, no hiss, excellent audio, controllable volume, no reds in the led. Now what?
Eskie, I was typing while you posted your request for "easy to understand wording". I hope that my last post didn't make things worse. I (and I'm sure many others) will work on a simple way to describe the not-so-simple job of optimizing up an audio system. (The PS1/L1/B1 is a system unto itself. Add an external mixer and, together with the PS1, we still have one system, but it's a bit more complex to get everything optimized. Not an insurmountable challenge, but one that requires some understanding of how the systems' components interact. Stay tuned...)
No problem Chuck, am eagerly awaiting the next instalment in your attempt at enlightening a technical dunce Wink
Mind you, a lot of this will become a lot easier to understand once I actually receive my 2 double systems. The delivery date keeps being put back Frown The latest info from Bose UK is that I'll receive it around April 8th.
The mixer I use is an Allen & Heath Xone 62. I've no idea whether A&H is popular in the US?
quote:
Originally posted by ST:
You might want to pack that Remote with you, even if you don't normally use it.

If the Remote is *not* plugged in when you power up the System, the Powerstand runs as though the Remote is attached and all the controls are straight-up (12:00 o'clock).

This means that the Master volume is also at 12:00 o'clock.

I always have the remote with me in the car, just in case. But... as I'm using inputs 3 & 4, the amplification is adjusted at the PS1 at the start of the night and the input is set for line level. The remote has no impact on inputs 3 & 4 right? so unless I am using 1 & 2, there's no reason to use the remote if I understand correctly.