Hi there 

I have L1M2 B2 +T1 and S1 Pro 

I have a Behringer 1002B battery mixer for extra channels when using S1

When using ac power I prefer using T1 with external power supply over 1002B with S1 

Is there a way of powering the T1 using a battery?

I could use for example  a 12v 4a/h SLA battery and pure sine wave 600w inverter to 240v then step down to 18v using the Bose power supply but it seems a bulky solution  

I see the pins on the power supply output are +18 v Rtn and -18v rtn so its not a simple case of supply 18v DC 1A to two pins   I understand that the cable to the power stand also transmits digital audio signal but in the T1 S1 set up feature this is not required  

any thoughts?  Cheers Eric 

 

 

Original Post

Hi Eric,

We're always interested in helping our customers to use our products in innovative ways and to better their craft and performances. However, connecting a ToneMatch mixer to a power source other than a ToneMatch Mixer Power Supply connected to AC Mains is unsupported. If you damage the ToneMatch mixer, it won't be covered under warranty. We can't warranty against damage for circumstances we can't anticipate or that we can expect will harm the products.

Here's a link to the warranty information for Bose Portable PA products.

Here is some more information about alternative power sources.

ST

Hmmm ... interesting question. I've seen folks on this forum who use battery power sources to power their L1 compacts ... so why not the T1?

I'd love to use my T1 with my S1 if I had a portable power source for the T1. Right now I'm experimenting with using the Behringer 1002B but can't eliminate the hum that I'm getting and it's really annoying.

I'd prefer to use my T1 if it were easy to power up ...

troubador posted:

Hmmm ... interesting question. I've seen folks on this forum who use battery power sources to power their L1 compacts ... so why not the T1?

I'd love to use my T1 with my S1 if I had a portable power source for the T1. Right now I'm experimenting with using the Behringer 1002B but can't eliminate the hum that I'm getting and it's really annoying.

I'd prefer to use my T1 if it were easy to power up ...

I don't have a hum running my Behringer 1002b and S1s.  I'm running a TRS 1/4" from each output through a balanced cable to an XLR into channel one of each S1.  I usually run the volume on the S1s at the detent (12 o'Clock) and do the mix on the 1002b...

How are you hooking them up?

I suspect it's easy to induce hum if you're going into the 1/8" aux input though...

I use the headphone out to a 1/8" adaptor from my Behringer Xenix throu a shielded 1/8" stereo cable to Channel 3 of my Bose S1 Pro, without him, @Eric SA . My setup does not produce audible hum. My guess would be the cable, or gain staging. Gain staging is very important to get great sound running my entire band through a Bose S1 Pro. That's why I use an active preamp DI box with each instrument. The additional EQ allows the dual use microphone/instrument channels to have independent EQ.

http://imgur.com/lMVYowL

http://imgur.com/e8R29bh

Chet 3 posted:
troubador posted:

Hmmm ... interesting question. I've seen folks on this forum who use battery power sources to power their L1 compacts ... so why not the T1?

I'd love to use my T1 with my S1 if I had a portable power source for the T1. Right now I'm experimenting with using the Behringer 1002B but can't eliminate the hum that I'm getting and it's really annoying.

I'd prefer to use my T1 if it were easy to power up ...

I don't have a hum running my Behringer 1002b and S1s.  I'm running a TRS 1/4" from each output through a balanced cable to an XLR into channel one of each S1.  I usually run the volume on the S1s at the detent (12 o'Clock) and do the mix on the 1002b...

How are you hooking them up?

I suspect it's easy to induce hum if you're going into the 1/8" aux input though...

Thanks, @Chet 3 ... I've tried connecting from the 1002B Main out to the S1 via TS (as per the Behringer manual) and TRS. Same thing - still get the hum.

Same cables going directly from my guitar to the S1 don't create a hum.

I pan the out from the 1002B L and R to the S1 ch.1 and 2. S1 is nearly always at 12 o'clock.

I usually run my SM58 to ch.1 on the 1002B (via XLR, of course).

I've tried going via TS from guitar to ch.3 on the 1002B and via TS/XLR through an ADI21. Either way I get a hum on my S1. Both guitars (Takamine acoustic or Godin A6 Ultra) have the same effect. I've tried a variety of TS cables too.

And I've tried the 1002B with power and on batteries. Same result.

I've already returned one 1002B to the retailer and am embarrassed to go back with the replacement as well!

That's why I would love to use my T1 if I could! (When I'm plugging into a power source I use my T1 - with my L1M2. To me, the T1 is the best mixer ever - for my needs. The S1 is usually out for busking or where I don't want to be bothered looking for a wall socket - but then I can't use my T1.)

The only reason I like to have a mixer is so I can have more than one mic and one guitar for use with the S1. I often have people wanting to singalong - so it's nice to have a separate mic for them.Or I can keep one mic which has a harmonica stand attached side-by-side with another mic - allowing me to switch easily when I need the harmonica.

And the Godin A6 has two output jacks. With a mixer I can have my Takamine (one output) and the Godin A6 (two outputs) connected without having to switch guitar cables. I can even keep my Uke plugged in and switch easily between instruments.

Hi Everyone

I understand the official Bose Position 

@ST I would never use modified sine wave because of noise and I do care about my sensitive electronics. Himlar a Bose does not appear to have an opinion on battery pure sine wave inverters, only modified, square wave (cheap) inverters.  I do use a 2200W Pure Sine Wave inverter and a 60AH AUSTRALIAN made Thumper battery pack with L1M2 B2 T1, effect Pedals etc.  The inverter produces clean regulated 240v AC Power just like mains. With plenty of power headroom.  I have absolutely no noise or performance issues. It’s a clean reliable but heavy solution.  I Prefer this to a petrol (gas) generator. I am interested though in comments about a pure sine wave inverter. Hilmar suggests that the Honda inbuilt Pure Sine Wave inverter is acceptable. I also understand it is impossible for a manufacturer to have an opinion on the many brands and combinations available in the world market particularly where warranty events may occur. Therefore there may be no official opinion other than the Honda Generator that has been evaluated  

@troubador@Chet 3 and @RicI’m not having hum issues I use 6mm TRS from left main to my single S1 CH 2. Pan everything left. It’s handy for adding my Ukes and Wazinator Stoop box. I can EQ and forget.  I would prefer use S1 Ch 1 exclusively for my Martin DC28e with LR Baggs Anthem Pro.  Using S1 Guitar TM Setting as it sounds better than through the 1002B.  It’s not difficult to use the same guitar cable and switch between instruments but I have to tweak the volume and tone settings on the fly to balance sound.   

If I had a choice I would use T1 on battery over 1002b  The solution outlined above, smaller battery and small 300W pure SW inverter works but heavy and messy  

Thanks everyone 

 

troubador posted:

I think @KingBiscuit hit the nail on the head ... as a solo performer I would REALLY like to use my T1 with my S1. How much power does the T1 need? Is it realistic to expect that a battery solution is feasible?

DISCLAIMER:  I am not an electrical engineer or certified in electronics in any way.  I have not attempted this project nor do I advocate anyone else try it.  I'm only sharing my thoughts.   Dealing with anything electrical is dangerous and should only be performed by individuals that are properly trained to do so.  Additionally, I'm pretty sure this would void your Bose warranty.   Should you decide to pursue this project, it is at your own risk.

I did a little research on building a battery pack for my T1. 

Here's what I came up with:

  • The Bose power supply for the Tone Match Mixers supplies 18 Volts DC to the mixer at 1 amp. 
  • Assuming you know which pins Bose uses to supply power to the mixer, you can simply buy an Ethercon cable, wire it to an 18 volt battery and you've got battery power.  I realize this is an over simplification, but that's the root of the solution.
  • Several cordless power tool manufactures use/market 18 Volt Lithium style batteries and associated chargers.  (DeWalt comes to mind)  If I remember correctly, the DeWalt 18V gives you 2.5 Amp Hours which would give you a run time of maybe 2 hours, assuming the Tone Match actually draws 1 amp.  I'm guessing it will be somewhere below 1 amp, but I haven't done any research in that area.
  • The last part of the puzzle would be making it look professional, portable and easy to use.  You could build a small box that can accept your 18 volt battery, have the required connections for an Ethercon cable, the appropriate fuses, switches and whatever lights/gauges you want to wire in.   The most difficult task will be coming up with a receptacle that will allow you to plug the batteries in without having to modify the battery.  You want to be able to quickly change the batteries and be able to use the stock charger for recharging.

 

Assuming this solution works, you could charge up 2 or 3 batteries before a gig and have enough battery power to last the night. 

DISCLAIMER:  I am not an electrical engineer or certified in electronics in any way.  I have not attempted this project nor do I advocate anyone else try it.  I'm only sharing my thoughts.   Dealing with anything electrical is dangerous and should only be performed by individuals that are properly trained to do so.  Additionally, I'm pretty sure this would void your Bose warranty.   Should you decide to pursue this project, it is at your own risk.

Edit: moved post to current discussion
Bose Pro Community Admin  

There is a thread on running your ToneMatch with a battery.  ST may choose to move this post to that thread.  I'm fine with that.

https://www.bosepro.community/...41#40582958932690641

KingBiscuit posted:
troubador posted:

I think @KingBiscuit hit the nail on the head ... as a solo performer I would REALLY like to use my T1 with my S1. How much power does the T1 need? Is it realistic to expect that a battery solution is feasible?

DISCLAIMER:  I am not an electrical engineer or certified in electronics in any way.  I have not attempted this project nor do I advocate anyone else try it.  I'm only sharing my thoughts.   Dealing with anything electrical is dangerous and should only be performed by individuals that are properly trained to do so.  Additionally, I'm pretty sure this would void your Bose warranty.   Should you decide to pursue this project, it is at your own risk.

I did a little research on building a battery pack for my T1. 

Here's what I came up with:

  • The Bose power supply for the Tone Match Mixers supplies 18 Volts DC to the mixer at 1 amp. 
  • Assuming you know which pins Bose uses to supply power to the mixer, you can simply buy an Ethercon cable, wire it to an 18 volt battery and you've got battery power.  I realize this is an over simplification, but that's the root of the solution.
  • Several cordless power tool manufactures use/market 18 Volt Lithium style batteries and associated chargers.  (DeWalt comes to mind)  If I remember correctly, the DeWalt 18V gives you 2.5 Amp Hours which would give you a run time of maybe 2 hours, assuming the Tone Match actually draws 1 amp.  I'm guessing it will be somewhere below 1 amp, but I haven't done any research in that area.
  • The last part of the puzzle would be making it look professional, portable and easy to use.  You could build a small box that can accept your 18 volt battery, have the required connections for an Ethercon cable, the appropriate fuses, switches and whatever lights/gauges you want to wire in.   The most difficult task will be coming up with a receptacle that will allow you to plug the batteries in without having to modify the battery.  You want to be able to quickly change the batteries and be able to use the stock charger for recharging.

 

@KingBiscuit Many thanks for that good explanation. I can't dream of messing with electronics so I'll wait for someone to come up with a design based on the seed you've sown!!

My wife is the power tool user in our household (for her woodworking/carpentry) and I'm sure there are 18v batteries lying about.

How sweet it would be to use one of those batteries to take my T1 out on the road!!

Thanks again. I have to say that this forum is so much fun because of all the wonderful contributors - questions and answers - and knowledgeable folks who are willing to take the time ( @ST you're at the top of my list!).

Cheers,

KingBiscuit posted:
I did a little research on building a battery pack for my T1. 
  • The Bose power supply for the Tone Match Mixers supplies 18 Volts DC to the mixer at 1 amp. 
  • Assuming you know which pins Bose uses to supply power to the mixer, you can simply buy an Ethercon cable, wire it to an 18 volt battery and you've got battery power.  I realize this is an over simplification, but that's the root of the solution.
  • Several cordless power tool manufactures use/market 18 Volt Lithium style batteries and associated chargers.  (DeWalt comes to mind)  If I remember correctly, the DeWalt 18V gives you 2.5 Amp Hours which would give you a run time of maybe 2 hours, assuming the Tone Match actually draws 1 amp.  I'm guessing it will be somewhere below 1 amp, but I haven't done any research in that area.
  • The last part of the puzzle would be making it look professional, portable and easy to use.  You could build a small box that can accept your 18 volt battery, have the required connections for an Ethercon cable, the appropriate fuses, switches and whatever lights/gauges you want to wire in … 

Assuming this solution works, you could charge up 2 or 3 batteries before a gig and have enough battery power to last the night. 

DISCLAIMER:  I am not an electrical engineer or certified in electronics in any way.  I have not attempted this project nor do I advocate anyone else try it.  I'm only sharing my thoughts …

Sadly this won't quite work, since the T1 mains adaptor provides split rail power of +18V and -18V.  One would assume that this is regulated internally to +/- 15V, and +5V et al for the electronics.  At first glance it looks like Bose use a 'Power over Ethernet' [PoE] scheme for the T1 and T4S, since the Power Stand provides +24V and -24V to the cable, which presumably allows for a bit of voltage drop on the cable (length).  However I then discovered that the scheme being used is proprietary, and any off-the-shelf PoE battery PSUs can't be used – which is what I investigated first.

I am also currently looking at testing a battery supply for a T1.  This will have  a +/- 18V supply at about 0.5A per rail.  As KingBiscuit also suggests, I've gone for an estimated mid-range power consumption figure of about 18W.  Once I've acquired a second-hand T1 I'll let you know how I get on!


Sadly this won't quite work, since the T1 mains adaptor provides split rail power of +18V and -18V.  One would assume that this is regulated internally to +/- 15V, and +5V et al for the electronics.  At first glance it looks like Bose use a 'Power over Ethernet' [PoE] scheme for the T1 and T4S, since the Power Stand provides +24V and -24V to the cable, which presumably allows for a bit of voltage drop on the cable (length).  However I then discovered that the scheme being used is proprietary, and any off-the-shelf PoE battery PSUs can't be used – which is what I investigated first.

I am also currently looking at testing a battery supply for a T1.  This will have  a +/- 18V supply at about 0.5A per rail.  As KingBiscuit also suggests, I've gone for an estimated mid-range power consumption figure of about 18W.  Once I've acquired a second-hand T1 I'll let you know how I get on!

It sounds like you're a lot further along than I am on this.  Have you already put a volt meter on the connector to see which pairs are carrying power and what the polarity is for each pair? 

Once you determine which pins have power and what the polarity is on those sets, could you do one of the following?

  • Use 2 different batteries, each wired to the polarity of the pins you are servicing?
  • Use 1 battery but wire 1 power set +/- to it and wire the other set -/+ to the same battery

As I pointed out, I don't have the stones to try this on my T1...a new one is too expensive.

I know Bose won't comment on it but with all this interest, It would seem a good  project for an engineer that already knows the systems and what's involved.  But, then they have marketing, focus groups to see how it's received, certification, and on and on.   It might end up being a lot of money for a solution to replace an extension cord.  LOL 

 

Hi Folks,

This is not a recommendation for a specific product. We're just exploring ideas.

Although not as elegant as a dedicated ToneMatch battery power supply, devices like this are available now.

Powkey 200Watt Portable Power Bank with AC Outlet for Camping 42000mAh Power Supply for CPAP ,2 AC Ports, 4 USB Ports, 2 DC PortPowkey 200Watt Portable Power Bank with AC Outlet

PORTABLE AND MUTIL-FUNCTIONAL : 2 x 120V AC power socket(pure sine wave,total max 200W)

HIGH CAPACITY WITH SUPER SMALL SIZE: 42000mAh(210Wh) Grade A lithium polymer battery,with only 3.3 lbs net weight

Item Dimensions7.87 x 1.81 x 5.71 in



You can use something like this as your AC power source and use the  ToneMatch® Audio Engine Power Supply to power the ToneMatch mixer.

ST

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ST, that's a much more elegant solution than what  had!  If anyone tries it, let us know how long you can run at what volumes and effects, etc.

I thought my idea might be feasible but as I pointed out in the last post, it might be an expensive alternative to an extension cord.  ST's solution is much easier, probably a lot less expensive and probably won't cancel your warranty! 

Love it.

Hi KingBiscuit,

Unfortunately, battery packs that tick all the boxes are at least double the price where I live.  But even if I could get a unit like the one to which I linked above, I probably wouldn't.

Why would I need to run a ToneMatch mixer without AC power:  Tonal shaping or more inputs?

Brief thoughts:

  • Busking in an urban environment
    • Fine control available with a ToneMatch mixer may not be heard by the audience
    • Although I prefer to use my phantom powered microphone, I have dynamic microphones that work fine, and I doubt the audience will hear the difference in a noisy setting
  • Do I need more inputs (two performers?)
    • I would bring a second S1 Pro (preferably, the second performer owns an S1 Pro.
    • In this situation, there is NO need to connect the two S1 Pro systems


I'm sure there are other use cases I haven't considered.

I'm not dismissing the idea. If I had a battery pack, I would probably use it with a ToneMatch mixer (and my computer, and tablets, and all kinds of other things like my L1 Compact). I might even take up camping.

ST

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