hi...

We're considering purchasing three PAS systems for our celtic fusion band. Everything seems straightforward with one exception. The drummer plays a hybrid kit made up of components of a traditional kit with hand drums. He has a kick drum, djembe, snare, conga, two mini-congas, bongos, cymbals, hi-hat, and various hand instruments. We are currently using a mic on the kick, djembe, conga, and mini-congas. Two overhead condensers pick up the cymbals.

From what we understand we would still run mics into an intermediate mixing board and from that into the PAS. But, where would we place the PAS itself? Behind, to the side, in front? Just not sure the best placement for minimizing feedback and allowing the drummer to hear his playing.

Thanks very much for any advice you can give us.
Original Post
gruvnmelo-
What we've done in many situations is keep the drummer's system a bit off to the side. Directly behind works OK but I find skewing the system-drum kit is better.

Also, you may want to try using the overhead condenser mics before a gig first. We've found that more simple, closer miking techniques fare better for more stages. What has worked very well for us has been a pair of identical mics wired with a differential "Y" cable and a single kick drum mic. This configuration allow you to not have to submix (if the drummer does not sing) and there are some nice benefits in using the differential cable (reduction of bass regeration onstage), use of the new diff-mic preset. Let me know if you'd like more details on this.
I teched an unbelievable 10-piece band last year at the Folk Alliance conference in San Diego, called The Boneshakers. I think they would be okay with Celtic Fusion.

Anyway, to an audience of professional musicians, they literally blew the doors down. It was incredible. Do you know them? They had two fiddles, bass, guitars, percussion, keys, mandolin, and the kitchen sink. The ability to hear and pick out each instrument on the new system was to my ears simply amazing. Booking agents in the audience from around the world literally rushed the stage after the performance.
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle-at-Bose:
gruvnmelo-
Also, you may want to try using the overhead condenser mics before a gig first... What has worked very well for us has been a pair of identical mics wired with a differential "Y" cable and a single kick drum mic. This configuration allow you to not have to submix (if the drummer does not sing) and there are some nice benefits in using the differential cable (reduction of bass regeration onstage), use of the new diff-mic preset. Let me know if you'd like more details on this.


Hi Kyle;

I'm working with the same band as gruvnmelo and most of the times I'm the one getting saddled with running the PA. So, this system is especially interesting to me.

But, I do need some more info about the differential "Y" cable. Thats something I'm not at all familiar with. I've used stereo "Y"s, but this doesn't sound the same. Is this something I can easily order online?

Also, the overhead condensers we're using are two Shure KSM 109s. But, Bling Bling (seen posting elsewhere here) also has several other mics thats he's been using. I should avoid using the 109s? Or can I use those for the close micing?

Thanks very much for any help you can give us -- I think we're about a week away from ordering 3 PAS systems and getting some of these questions resolved ahead of time would be awesome.

cheers!!

Patrick
quote:
Originally posted by Ken-at-Bose:
I teched an unbelievable 10-piece band last year at the Folk Alliance conference in San Diego, called The Boneshakers... Do you know them?


Hi Ken;

I'm working with the same band as gruvnmelo... no, we're not familiar with the Boneshakers -- yet. But, you can bet I'll be looking for their site and tunes right quick! Thanks very much for the tip.

take care

Patrick
quote:
Originally posted by GeezerFaction:
Hi Kyle;

I'm working with the same band as gruvnmelo and most of the times I'm the one getting saddled with running the PA. So, this system is especially interesting to me.

But, I do need some more info about the differential "Y" cable. Thats something I'm not at all familiar with. I've used stereo "Y"s, but this doesn't sound the same. Is this something I can easily order online?

Also, the overhead condensers we're using are two Shure KSM 109s. But, Bling Bling (seen posting elsewhere here) also has several other mics thats he's been using. I should avoid using the 109s? Or can I use those for the close micing?

Thanks very much for any help you can give us -- I think we're about a week away from ordering 3 PAS systems and getting some of these questions resolved ahead of time would be awesome.

cheers!!

Patrick


Patrick,

Ken & Kyle are currently traveling, so I will try to answer your questions. I would NOT recommend the out-of-phase Y adapter (or any kind of Y-adapter for that matter) with condenser mics. These mics have build in preamplifiers and connecting the outputs directly will present the mics with the wrong input impedance.

The Y-adapters are pretty rare, I don't think you can buy them on line. You can buy an ordinary 2-female/1-male XLR Y adapter like YMFF type from here and put an XLR phase inverter like this here on one of the female ends.

Again, I would only recommend the adapter for dynamic microphones (like for example a Shure SM57). If you want to use KSM109s (which are nice microphones), you may have to use a little mini-mixer to combine the microphone signals. You can still use the XLR phase inverter on one channel to get the cancellation effect. The 109s should work for bear field as well as for overhead. For near-field you might have to engage the -15 dB pad on the mics.

Hope that helps.

Hilmar
quote:
Again, I would only recommend the adapter for dynamic microphones (like for example a Shure SM57). If you want to use KSM109s (which are nice microphones), you may have to use a little mini-mixer to combine the microphone signals. You can still use the XLR phase inverter on one channel to get the cancellation effect. The 109s should work for near field as well as for overhead. For near-field you might have to engage the -15 dB pad on the mics.
Hope that helps.
Hilmar


Thanks very much Hilmar...

that definitely helps! The good news is that it gives us several options to try. Our drummer does have a couple of other dynamic mics we can try initially. But, we may need to use a submixer anyway... he's also picked up one of those Yamaha SubKick quasi-"mic" things which appears to work best in tandem with another kick drum mic. And we've got a small intermediate board that can handle putting these things in along with a couple of near field mics. We can try using the dynamics or the 109s and see which is best.

Thanks very much for your assistance.
slainte!!

Patrick

Sounds like we can experiement with the options and see what yields the best sound.

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