Due to input needs I sometimes need to run my mixer into my pas,is it better to run into xlr or jack inputs?to get a cleaner sound without o/driving the inputs.By the way if anyone wants a great tip for a mixer,I changed from a mackie cfx12 to the FANTASTIC new studiomaster 1u!yes 1u,12 channel rack-mount C3X and boy what a great sound,full on-board effects 4mic 6sterio channels 3lbs weght, no-brainer for solo/small combo needs. Apart from the brightest blue l.e.d. ever seen (almost a spot-light) power ind.its magic.
Original Post
Hello angello,

It doesn't matter whether you use XLR or 1/4 inputs on Channels 1 and 2 of the PS1 power stand. The only thing to consider is whether the 1/4" output on the mixer is balanced. If it is, then be sure to use at TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) cord. A TS (tip-sleeve) cord will be unbalanced and invites noise and hume problems (with any audio equipment).
Ken:
I would not have thought - just off the top of my head - that using the XLR OUTs from most mixers in to the XLR INs on the Power Stand would be recommended.

Isn't this a gain-staging accident waiting to happen, or do I need to be disabused of that notion?
KenvinT

Hi Kev,

In the discussion that follows, we are talking about mixer out to Bose System Channel 1 or 2.

XLR to XLR should be fine
unless you are having problems, but you should be able to solve that by turning down the output from the Mixer. Keep reading - more in three paragraphs.

¼" Tip-Ring to ¼" Tip-Ring is fine
unless you are running long lines or picking up noise

XLR (balanced) to ¼" Tip-Ring-Sleeve (balanced) doesn't do much for you
because the ¼" input on the Bose System is Tip-Ring unbalanced anyway.


So if you Kev are running XLR (from the mixer) to XLR (Bose System), you should be fine.
Things you can do if the signal is too hot (you are having trouble with the input clipping on the Bose System)...
- check to see if there is a 'pad' built-in on the mixer (most Mackie mixers have this on the panel beside the XLR outs)
- turn down the main outs on the mixer
- use a 20 dB pad (attenuator) between the mixer and the Bose System.



For anybody who is still reading.

¼" Tip-Ring-Sleeve balanced to XLR balanced Specialized instrument cable (probably Guitar)
This is probably a specialty cable that was supplied with the instrument, and intended for a microphone input on a mixer. This should work fine with the Bose System.


Female XLR to ¼" Tip-Sleeve (microphone adaptor)
will probably not work very well.
The ¼" input was designed for high impedance line-level inputs and may not provide enough gain for a microphone which is probably low impedance.

¼" Tip-Sleeve (unbalanced) to XLR (balanced) instrument adaptor
may not work particularly well
You are probably running an impedance mismatch (high impedance from the instrument to low impedance balanced XLR).

edit: see the new improved version of this post (with pictures) in PS1 Powerstand Connections - wiki version
Hi dansgold,

This really shouldn't be a problem. Because you can turn down the output of the mixer, it is likely that you can avoid clipping the input of the Bose System just by turning it down at one end or the other. If someone is setting-up and mindful of the trim clipping lights, I doubt there is any greater likelihood of a 'gain-staging accident' with balanced XLR to balanced XLR connections.

See the post above for a summary.

Where you may have heard of a problem is running the balanced line-outs from the Bose System into a mixer. Those balanced line-outs are +4 dBu which may be a little hot for mic inputs on some mixers. Some mixers have -20 dB pads on the inputs, others don't. In that case you'd probably need a -20 dB inline pad.


quote:
Originally posted by dansgold:
Ken:
I would not have thought - just off the top of my head - that using the XLR OUTs from most mixers in to the XLR INs on the Power Stand would be recommended.

Isn't this a gain-staging accident waiting to happen, or do I need to be disabused of that notion?
st - thanks for the info. i am running through a mackie dfx-6. i am not at all familiar with attenuators. first, i don't have my board with me right now, so i can't check to see if there is a built-in pad. secondly, if i had my board, it wouldn't help because i don't know what a pad is. lol. i must say i'm a little embarrassed of my ignorance on the matter. if you could, please direct me to a site or, if you have time, could you explain this to me? again, please forgive my ignorance. i see you on here all the time answering questions about much bigger and better things. i hate to waste your time with something that i should probably have educated myself on years ago. thanks for the help!!
Hi Kev,

You have no concerns here. I just checked the manual for the DFX-6 and it doesn't look like there is a 'pad' switch.

Shouldn't be a big deal either way. You'll probably just run the master out a little lower than someone who did have the pad switch. But if you are not experiencing any issues... don't give this a second thought.



quote:
Originally posted by KevinT:
st - thanks for the info. i am running through a mackie dfx-6. i am not at all familiar with attenuators. first, i don't have my board with me right now, so i can't check to see if there is a built-in pad. secondly, if i had my board, it wouldn't help because i don't know what a pad is. lol. i must say i'm a little embarrassed of my ignorance on the matter. if you could, please direct me to a site or, if you have time, could you explain this to me? again, please forgive my ignorance. i see you on here all the time answering questions about much bigger and better things. i hate to waste your time with something that i should probably have educated myself on years ago. thanks for the help!!
ok co0l. we get occasional feedback here and there. is it normally just better to run the mixer volume a little lower and bring the trim levels up on the bose? or keep the mixer and bose trim levels low, but use the remote for volume? what's my best bet? thanks again! basically, we're running two sm58 betas (one wirelss) into channel 1 & 2 of the mackie, then panning those to the left and sending them via xlr to bose channel 1. then we're running a guitar & sax into mackie 3 & 4, panning right and sending them to bose channel 2. on some songs, my sax player plays bass, which he just runs direct (from his processor) into bose channel 3. now, of course there are trim levels on the mackie as well. what's the best positioning for the individual mackie trim levels/sliders? then for the bose trim levels? it gets kinda confusing having so many different trim levels/volumes to work with. thanks for all the help man!
Hi KevinT (kev)

For some overall principles on Gain Staging (and that's what we're discussing here) let me refer you to the Gain Staging section in the Unofficial Users' Guide.

It's going to be difficult to tell you exactly how to set up the individual sliders (not being there to see and hear what is happening), but once you know the principles, the details aren't all that hard.

And hey, about this...
quote:
i hate to waste your time with something that i should probably have educated myself on years ago


I don't think most of us wanted to become educate ourselves about this stuff. Some of us have had to learn more than we would have chosen to, because we wanted to play beyond the reach of our acoustic voices and instruments.

The good news is that once you figure it out with our Bose Systems, it is generally - an easily repeated performance.

Editorial comment: For some of us, the Bose System is the first chance we've had to control the process end-to-end (source to listeners' ears). With that control comes a a little more investment. But it's worth it.

I'm not suggesting that it is practical for everyone but... If you can get to that place where each performer has his/her own System then these issues (gain staging for example) are very simple. Probably simpler than managing back-line amps, mics on those amps, a mixer, a PA, monitors and trying to hear what is happening in the midst of the musical mêlée.
quote:
ok co0l. we get occasional feedback here and there. is it normally just better to run the mixer volume a little lower and bring the trim levels up on the bose? or keep the mixer and bose trim levels low, but use the remote for volume?



Hi again Kev,

Should have tried to be a little more helpful. Tell you what, how 'bout you check out that link in the previous post. Then see if it makes sense to you to
- run the trims lower on the Bose and
- keep the outputs on the mixer high enough to keep the trim lights on the Bose System in the green.
We could go into a lot of permutations here, but I'll try and leave it general for now.

It should make sense to:
- control relative volumes of instruments on the channel sliders on the mixer
- control the overall volume on the Remote.

If you control overall volume with the master out on the mixer, you run the risk of clipping the inputs on the Bose System.

How's that?

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
Having trouble signing in?

We recently updated our sign-in procedure and if you have old sign-in data cached, this can create a problem. Please:

  1. Clear your browser cache and cookies
  2. Then close the browser (not just the window)
  3. Open the browser and try again
Thank you

Please make sure that your profile is up to date
×
×
×
×