I saw a few indirect references to Seagull's and more to LR Baggs pickups, but nothing that seemed directly related to the LR Baggs Duet II pickup I have on my Seagull S6+CW. Any suggestions for presets? For using the split mic / pickup outputs vs. mixing them on the Duet II itself? (which is the default I've used up until now, because I couldn't get anything decent when trying to use them as separate outputs.

I haven't really played with this yet on the PAS, so I'm just looking for some more experienced suggestions. Up until now I've just used 'mix', mono out, with the mic/pickup balance about 1/3 closer to the pickup side, and the bass internal EQ down a little more than halfway -- with conventional systems that seems to get closest to the bare acoustic sound (at least for me, the player!).

When using with the PAS at a rehearsal in a basement the other night, we were getting some pretty terrible feedback at times. We had 4 mics set up across two PAS's+dual B1's, and I was feeding the LR Baggs output into the PAS channel 3. It wasn't until the rehearsal was almost over that I realized the feedback was coming from my Seagull (depending on where I stood and what direction I held the guitar) ... probably mostly from the internal mic!

So... suggestions, guidance? I await your collective wisdom.


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just my input here as far as someone whom experiments with all types of pickups , amd/or mic combos. i personnaly like lr baggs pickups, at least the original plain lb6. the first i bel;ieve model to come out for their undersaddle pickup.
i have found any small internal mic on a guitar or lavier mic to be problems with the pas but also with any other conventional system. most of these small condenser mics are extremeley prone to feedback, before alot of gain is attained.
in my situations usually if you ned to be at the volume you are playin at (per your post) you will probably need to turn it down with the blend more to the pickup, or turn it off altogether. they are just really sensitive in m y view with any system. i do feel the pas does better if one can get the reccomended 7 ft away from the system. but you will never get as much gain from the mic before feedback as you will with just using the pickup.
some experimenting does make the combonation of the mic and pickup sound nice. but when using those types of pickups, the mic usually can only work well when alot of volume is not needed, as in a quiet audience, and being able to be as far as possible in front of the pas.
otherwise i always ( even though i sacrifice some of the blneded tone i like) just use the pickup if im needing to be at a volume the mic consistantly feeds back.
positioning, and experimentation with the blend and angles to the pas, will let you know what is max volume to expect from the mic before feedback.
unless in a concert situation, ive found in bars and regular gigs with external noise and audience noise etc, ive had no success at any great volume from the mic in those situatiuons, without feedback problems...however the pickup itself works fine by itself as far as feeback, and one should get plenty of volume.
these litle mics are tricky to me when it comes to feedback. hopefully maybe some others can offer tips to help. i after the longest time just gave up and at the louder volumes needed just use the pickup...always, if its not a hassle for me using the mic, it is for a soundguy in even a conventional system(monitors dont like em at all ). just my thoughts and experience, maybe it can help some....
I don't have a Baggs system but I have a very similar Fishman Stereo Prefix in both a Taylor and a Seagull 12-string. I always try to use as much microphone in the mix as possible but for most gigs with drums, that's very little if any because of the stage volume. Whenever I do a solo/duo acoustic gig, I can run practically 100% internal mic but once drums are added, the stage volume makes that practically impossible.

The output from my Fishman is plenty strong to drive PAS ch 3/4 line inputs though and I really don't need the remote and/or EQ since the internal system has everything I need on the guitar.

I suggest whenever you get feedback, back the mic off a little. Feedback will be much worse in a small space with PAS so don't judge that until you've had a chance to gig out more.
As anyone who has worked with pickup/mic combo systems has discovered, it's a struggle all the way. I had been putting mics inside my acoustic instruments for 15 years and working with blenders. Occasionally they worked brilliantly, most of the time decently, and sometimes abysmally. Of course even on the bad days, being able to mix just a little mic in with the pickup was better than the pickup alone. In band situations, it's pretty tough to get much contribution from the mic. After having tried just about every type of pickup and combination on my instruments and my customers', I'm currently just using an undersaddle pickup running into a Fishman Aura. The sound is quite good, and consistent. When you find an acoustic image that matches your guitar well (they have hundreds to download), you're pretty well set. They also have images for mandolin, fiddle, and dobro. To some extent, you can use images that don't match your guitar, and actually change the character of it. It's hit and miss, but it's kinda fun. The Aura allows you to blend your straight pickup signal with their acoustic image to taste. Live, it works best around half and half, or slightly favoring the image for me. Because the image is based on a microphone signal that has all the character and resonance of a guitar much like yours, if you use too much image at louder levels, it will actually feedback in a way that sounds like a mic, even though you're not using one. If you go to fishmanaura.com, you can view video clips with the processing switched on and off. It's pretty dramatic. With the Aura on, the bad piezo characteristics disappear, and a three dimensional depth suddenly appears. I love this thing, and it's really simplified getting good live acoustic tone for me. (I actually own two of them; one for my pedal board for the weekly gig, and one for everything else and backup)
If you do try one, remember to set your Baggs system to all-pickup. The Aura's not designed to deal with a mic signal.
Hey Kramster, tell me what makes the Mama Bear the better choice for you.......I should probably look at it again now that it's in production. I also responded to your other post about this piece of gear, so a response on either thread is cool.......
Previously in discussing acoustic guitar pickups, I've related that I've heard lots of good things about K&K pickups, but I hadn't actually heard them myself through the Bose system. Last week we got my son a K&K Ultrapure Western and installed it in his Seagull M6. Last night I spent a good bit of time listening, trying different patches on the Bose, and comparing it to my Taylor (non-ES). We settled on preset 47. I was very impressed with the pickup system. Its very even across all of the strings and picks up the character of the guitar, sounding very natural and full for strumming, flat picking, and fingerpicking. You could very clearly hear the natural sonic differences between the Taylor and the Seagull. The preamp mounts just inside of the soundhole, with a small volume lever unobtrusively available. The preamp also has some eq controls and a master gain control, but we left them in the factory position.

K&K also makes a version with a mic (the Trinity), but I would probably only consider it for quiet, fingerpicking events or if I was trying to highlight the unique characteristics of a high-end guitar.

i tok the bait awhile back and also bought the ultra pure. i thought the pickup was ok, but not a whole lot different than any other type piezo ive tried. ive even made my own.
i still think if one needs the max volume, although i think one sacrifices some tone, the undersaddle pickup will give most gain before feedback. also piezo's such as the pure, tend to give more finger noise and artifacts when tapping on the guitar itself. for some this will be great, others it could be a problem , depending on their playing style.
i did find one really interesting thing fooling with the k&k. they make a very small piezo for harmonica, the disc is smaller than a dime, and is meant to attach to the outside of a harmonica. immediatly i found it wouldnt work well while holding and playing the harmonica, but worked very well when i played the harp in a rack while playing guitar. although the wire was a pain. but interesting thing was, i took the pickup and stuck it on my martin d28 on the outside of the bridge. experimented with it on the treble side, and it sounded quite good. in my opinion very simialr to the pure, if not better...and it was a bit cheaper. just a thought. i am going to mount it on the underside of the bridge for an alternative, when i play quieter gigs. it sounds as good as any piezo ive ever used. as alwyas with the pieszo's it takes some time to exdperiment for the best spot to put it. i was quite surprised as far away from the bass side of things on the guitar, how well it reproduced the bass. pretty neat discovery.
I've installed quite a few K&K systems over the past few years. I used it myself for a year or so. It is definitely a much more natural sound than any undersaddle. It seemed to lack just a bit of top end sparkle (most contact transducers do), but for solo guitar players, it can be a great choice. The Pick-up-the-World
film transducers are even a little more natural sounding, without the resonance peak of the metal discs in the K&K. As wfs mentioned, they are more prone to producing guitar-top feedback when playing with a band. I've also found that contact transducers don't blend as well with an
internal mic as an undersaddle does. Contact transducers and mics seem to emphasize the same resonant characteristics of the guitar, and things get sort of messy when you blend them. An undersaddle and mic seem to complement each other a bit more.

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