Large Outdoor Gig with F1 System?

Hi...

Just booked a large outdoor event coming up in two weeks.

Details:

Outdoor auto show

Live band - duo with acoustic/electric guitars and backing tracks playing dance/country/classic rock

Stage/canopy

Last  years attendance near festival epicenter/food & beverage area over 2000 people [I did not do the gig last  year - a similar duo did and they used the Yorkville Paraline system - two tops/two subs per side].

 

Question/discussion:

I have never used the Bose F1 system for a venue this large.  The largest I've attempted was 600 people indoors with a six peice live band - the Bose F1 sounded fine, but did not have the volume to cover the 600 dancers.  We ended up using delay towers [two more f1/f1sub stacks].

We did the 'beer tent' last year with one Bose F1-812/F1Sub per side.  Worked fine - only 500 people in a semi closed beer tent.

Mixer - either Allen & Heath QU-16 or Behringer XR18 [not sure if this would make a difference - we haven't used the QU-16].

We also have a Yorkville Paraline system [two tops/two subs] as an alternate.  

 

Asking forum for thoughts and experiences on:

* should we attempt the 2000 outdoor crowd with two Bose F1 812s and two Bose F1 subs [total]?

* should we augment the F1 system with an additional stack per side at staggered heights?

* should we use the alternate system, or rent a larger system?

* will mixer make a difference?

 

 

 

Original Post

I use the QU-16 with 2 F1s as our travel system.  I've covered 5-600 in a rather large auditorium.   I'm really finding if put the sound where the people are, and don't worry about filling the whole venue, you should be just fine.  If there ever a such a thing as "point and shoot" speakers these are them.  Only 10% vertical dispersion (flat face) and only 40 w/ J pattern.  Push waves of sound into your crowd. 

Hi Roger,

Roger Cortina posted:

Spoke with a local colleague.....his recommendation is to double up the F1 812's on each side, staggered on stands, and place 4 F1 Subs in center.....

I agree with JephSound (above). Put the F1 Model 812s where the people are. That is: distribute the F1 Model 812s instead of doubling them up. Depending on the physical layout of the space, putting all the F1 subwoofers in the center is good.  Watch out for overbearing bass on stage for the performers.

ST

Thx ST and Jephsound

i can try.  A few considerations:

I have limited stage (16 by 10) I think and will not power to distrubute across entire park 

 

people will be walking around food and beverage area as well as car show area. We've been tasked to be "loud and hi energy"

I don't have dimensions of area  

 

rc

 

There really is no good way of sounding a whole park with speakers on just the stage.  The calcs just don't work out, without blowing the hair off the people near the stage. It sounds like you're trying to sound quite a vast area. As ST stated above some sort of delays (speakers away from the stage) will give the most even coverage.

you could break the park up into two areas,  sound front part from stage

sound back part from 1/2 way down...   as for subs,  it's tough to get those lows a long distance.   Good luck. 

JS

Hi again.....not to beat a broken horse, but.....any additional thoughts on this??

Background again:

*two F1 stacks, and access to two more, as well as my Yorkville Paraline system.

*We are scheduled to perform for an outdoor car show in a week, and need to provide our own sound.

*We are a duo with backing tracks - all pop/country/rock/dance kind of stuff.

*The organizer tells me we will be on a raised stage in the center of the square where food/beverage and HQ will be.  They expect over 20,000 in attendance that day, and at any given time there could be up to 2500 people in the food/beverage area.

*tried to reach out to performers who performed last year, but so far unable to reach them

Now I realize not all 2500 will be listening to us, and there will not be a dance area, but I would like to ensure our performance is heard adequately across the majority of the food/beverage area.

Some good response from public post and it was suggested to call Bose Pro support - I may do that - but what are your thoughts?  One F1 per side and see what happens? Use the Yorkville paraline?  Double up on F1 stacks per side? Four F1 subs center stage and staggered height F1 812s per side?

 Looking for anyone with experience that may have been in similar situation and how it was handled?

Roger

Hi Roger,

Roger Cortina posted:

Hi again.....not to beat a broken horse, but.....any additional thoughts on this??

Background again:

*two F1 stacks, and access to two more, as well as my Yorkville Paraline system.

Not having heard a Yorkville Sound Paraline system, I cannot comment on whether or not you could expect better results.

*We are scheduled to perform for an outdoor car show in a week, and need to provide our own sound.

*We are a duo with backing tracks - all pop/country/rock/dance kind of stuff.

*The organizer tells me we will be on a raised stage in the center of the square where food/beverage and HQ will be.  They expect over 20,000 in attendance that day, and at any given time there could be up to 2500 people in the food/beverage area.

I found a people to space calculator and for people standing around at a reception, 2500 people should take 23,276 square feet. That could be a space around 153 x 153 feet. When I got my F1s I did some tests outside. I was measuring about 85 dB at 100 feet and 75 dB at 175 feet.  For details of how and what I measured, please see F1 Outdoors.



*tried to reach out to performers who performed last year, but so far unable to reach them

Now I realize not all 2500 will be listening to us, and there will not be a dance area, but I would like to ensure our performance is heard adequately across the majority of the food/beverage area.

If you're facing the food/beverage area and it's roughly square, most people will hear you. That is, they will know you are there.  To do that, you'll have to turn up - and then you'll be LOUD for the people within 30-50 feet.

Some good response from public post and it was suggested to call Bose Pro support - I may do that - but what are your thoughts?  One F1 per side and see what happens? Use the Yorkville paraline?  Double up on F1 stacks per side? Four F1 subs center stage and staggered height F1 812s per side?

If you have two F1 Model 812s, put one F1 Model 812 per side.  You will get more even bass coverage if you put the F1 Subwoofers together in the middle. But you may get overpowered by bass on the stage.

If you have two more F1 Model 812s (four in total) keep it simple: If you can put them at least 30-50 feet away from the stage (put the sound where the people are), great. If not, don't bother with the second two. I have this on the best authority I could find. I was recently at a gathering of Bose people who live and breathe the F1s using them in all kinds of settings, indoors and outside. I asked them if there was a way to configure two F1s side-by-side to get more volume. The answer: you might get 3 dB more volume but you will have interactions (plus and minus) at different frequencies. This will happen if you stagger them height-wise or put them side-by-side and angle them outward.  

If you need more bass, the you could add more F1s in the middle. If you have overpowering bass on stage, then split them. If you split them, you will end up with a power alley (lots of bass) in the middle and weaker bass depending on where you are in the audience area. 

 Looking for anyone with experience that may have been in similar situation and how it was handled?

Roger

I hope you get some more input from others.

ST

Ok...gig was last Saturday..thought I'd share my experience with the community..

 

* Classic car show....over 1100 registered cars covering 9 acres

* total attendance thru gate over 22000 people

* entertainment area was small stage in food/beverage area

* food/beverage area was [by eye], approx 100 by 100 [gauged by about four food/beverage trailers on the long side, 2 to 3 on the short side with passage ways]

* at any given time there were about 1500 people in the food/beverage area

 

What I used [pic below]:

Placed one F1 on a tripod per side angled outwards

Placed L1 M2 B2 front facing near center stage

Placed one F1 Sub next to B2 subwoofer

Used two Yorkville PS10 for monitors

Used Tonematch as mixer:

CAT5 to L1M2B2;  Master out to F1 812 L/S;  F1 812 L/S pass thru to F1 812 R/S; F1 812 R/S pass out to F1 Sub.

Used Aux out [post fader] to monitor.

Ch 1 & 2 - vocal mics; Ch 3 acoustic guitar; Ch 4/5 Ipad backing tracks; Elec guitar [thru tech21 character pedal/di] direct to analog in the L1M2.

F1 812's were set to Mic level input; Volume at about 10 o'clock each;  F1 Sub volume at 12 o'clock.  Tonematch master volume at 12 o'clock.

Observations:

* system was very clear and carried well

* believe most of the sound was coming from the L1M2B2

* had very even coverage as people walked across the area...no dead spots

* bass was substantial - not a dance club, but present

* overall the organizers were extremely pleased - absolutely no complaints on sound [or anything else actually]...got the repeat booking for next year along with the beer tent in the evening

Considerations:

* looking back, organizer didn't really communicate the true nature of her expectations of what we were supposed to provide...we had more than enough

* would consider using two L1M2B2s.....one per side about 20 to 30 feet apart as a traditional PA system....for over 10 years been putting the L1 behind us but many venues we would get feedback issues - stage area too tight and crowd too loud...so we began to bring the Yorkville PS10 as a monitor and place the L1M2 in front of us ....I know it's the intent of the L1 system but it has worked out a lot better for us - can get more volume out of the L1 and no feedback

* tonematch - great mixer for L1....not really liking how the F1s behave out of it.  No ability to EQ [ie 31 band graphic, or visual parametric EQ] to ring out the F1s......found if we ran volume about 11 o'clock on F1, would get some frequency issues

 

But overall, worked out fabulous.  A repeat booking and two other independent bookings is a good indicator.

 

Roger

 

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Photos (1)

Hi Roger,

Thanks for coming back to tell us how well you did at the gig. It's great you got the repeat booking and beer garden as well.  It's going to be so much easier next year when you know what to expect.

I appreciate all the detail.  Did I get that right: the electric guitar was heard (only) through the L1®?

ST

Hi Roger,

You can connect an iPad or iPod directly to the Model II Power (freeing up T1® Channel 4/5) for your electric guitar.

To connect the iPod or iPad directly to the L1® Model II Power Stand:

  1. Set your iPad / iPod to mono.
    1. Launch the Settings app on your iPhone or iPad.
    2. Tap on General.
    3. Tap on Accessibility.
    4. Under the Hearing section, turn On the option for Mono Audio
  2. Use a cable like the one shown below (it's the same as above)
    1. Connect one of the 1/4" jacks to the the L1®
      1. Because you set the iPad / iPod to mono, both 1/4" jacks carry both sides of the stereo signal
      2. It doesn't matter which 1/4" jack you connect to the L1®
    2. Do not connect the other 1/4" jack to anything. You can cover the tip with electrical tape to prevent picking up noise if the tip touches something.

iPad to L1



Do NOT use a cable like this (below) because it shorts the left and right outputs from your iPad/iPod.

Image result for 1/8 trs to 1/4 ts

Do NOT use a cable like this. This is not compatible with the L1® Model II Power Stand analog input.
Image result for 1/8 trs to 1/4 trs



ST

Thx ST..  hadn't thought of that...but then the ipad would come out of L1 and not the Aux out or Master Out if I run the F1 again?  

 

I actually thought of a lightning adapter on the ipad to the USB in on the Tonematch..that would free up ch 4/5 for elec guitar, but how would I control the volume of the ipad on the tonematch?  I would be using the volume at the source [ipad], correct?

 

Roger

Hi Roger,

Roger Cortina posted:

Thx ST..  hadn't thought of that...but then the ipad would come out of L1 and not the Aux out or Master Out if I run the F1 again?  

Yes, you're right.  Different input source, same problem. No solution. Sorry.

I actually thought of a lightning adapter on the ipad to the USB in on the Tonematch..that would free up ch 4/5 for elec guitar, but how would I control the volume of the ipad on the tonematch?  I would be using the volume at the source [ipad], correct?

Roger

When I tried the iPad via the Lightning adapter, this bypassed volume control on the iPad. The digital signal was at full volume. I had no control the volume on the iPad.

To control the volume from the iPad on the T1®, you have to route the USB from PC signal through Channel 4/5.  You won't be able to use Channel 4/5 for the guitar.

ST

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