I am 1/2 of an acoustic duo. We use the Bose system for two vocal lines and 2 instruments line. Our Martin Acoustic guitars w/ built in preamp work great with the system. Plenty of volume and overall great sound. We also use a Uke thru a Radial pz-pre acoustic preamp to give the Uke a boost into the ToneMatch.  This too delivers the amplified results we want. The problem is with my National Resolectric Guitar. This National guitar has a P90 pickup and active electronics. (2 - 9v batteries). The current model uses an audiophile-quality Highlander preamp to mix both the magnetic and piezoelectric pickups.  I have the National going thru several Boss pedals and also give the National a boost with a  Radial pz-pre acoustic preamp. We just cannot seem to get much tone or volume out of the National. Thru a regular guitar amp the national sounds great. Thru the Bose it kind of sucks. Any ideas on why the National and the Bose won't play nice together?

Thanks

 

Powerful amplification is enclosed in the Model II power stand – enough to drive the L1™ Model II system and up to two B1 bass modules to output levels required by bands in venues up to about 500 people.



Edit Subject: Previously "L1 Model II w-B1"
Bose Pro Community Admin  

Original Post

Hi Jim,

Welcome to the Bose Portable PA Community. Thanks for the interesting question.

JIm posted:

I am 1/2 of an acoustic duo. We use the Bose system for two vocal lines and 2 instruments line. Our Martin Acoustic guitars w/ built in preamp work great with the system. Plenty of volume and overall great sound. We also use a Uke thru a Radial pz-pre acoustic preamp to give the Uke a boost into the ToneMatch.  This too delivers the amplified results we want.

It sounds like the Bose part of the system is working okay.

Do you have a ToneMatch mixer (T1 or T4S/T8S)?

The problem is with my National Resolectric Guitar. This National guitar has a P90 pickup and active electronics. (2 - 9v batteries). The current model uses an audiophile-quality Highlander preamp to mix both the magnetic and piezoelectric pickups.  I have the National going thru several Boss pedals and also give the National a boost with a  Radial pz-pre acoustic preamp. We just cannot seem to get much tone or volume out of the National.

What output are you using from the Radial PZ-Pre?

What kind of cable are you using from the Radial PZ-Pre?

If you are using at ToneMatch mixer, what channel are you connecting to?



Thru a regular guitar amp the national sounds great. Thru the Bose it kind of sucks.

Assuming you have a ToneMatch mixer;

What happens when you connect the national directly to channel one on the ToneMatch mixer - using an ordinary instrument cable (1/4 inch (6.3mm) Tip-Sleeve)?



Any ideas on why the National and the Bose won't play nice together?

Thanks

Powerful amplification is enclosed in the Model II power stand – enough to drive the L1™ Model II system and up to two B1 bass modules to output levels required by bands in venues up to about 500 people.

Please fill in the blanks above and we'll take it from there.

Thanks,

ST

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Hello
 
We use a xlr x 1/4 from the pz pre #24 pre-Eq to the T1 ToneMatch #4 in. 
 
I have tried the National direct into the ToneMatch. The sound is just kind of bland. Adding Boss reverb , distortion and delay to the pedal board gets me the sound I like. I tried the settings on the T1 but just didn't really dig it so I went to pedals.. Maybe the path from the guitar to the ToneMatch is too cluttered with stuff. Just can't get much volume or  tone. Thanks 

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the added information.

I'm trying to troubleshoot the volume issue first.

JIm posted:
Hello
We use a xlr x 1/4 from the pz pre #24 pre-Eq to the T1 ToneMatch #4 in. 
Is that an XLR to1/4 inch (6.3 mm) Tip-Ring-Sleeve or XLR to 1/4 inch (6.3mm) Tip-Sleeve?
Does it sound different if you plug the same cable into T1 channel 3 instead of 4? It might be a little louder through channel 3. After you adjust for the volume, do you notice a difference in the sound?
I have tried the National direct into the ToneMatch. The sound is just kind of bland. Adding Boss reverb , distortion and delay to the pedal board gets me the sound I like. I tried the settings on the T1 but just didn't really dig it so I went to pedals.. Maybe the path from the guitar to the ToneMatch is too cluttered with stuff. Just can't get much volume or  tone.
Have you tried the ToneMatch Presets for Electric Guitar?
You might need a guitar amp modeler or guitar cabinet emulator to get the sound you're looking for.
Thanks 

ST

Thanks everybody. If I can get the sound or tone I'm looking for I have solved 50% of the problem solved. However something is still robbing my volume. I'll likely have to divided and conquer. One pedal at a time to different to inputs on the ToneMatch and log the impact.. I'm just trying to not lug a small amp to the gig. Our acoustic duo play small clubs of like 50 people. I just always go back to Bose's claim of "the L1™ Model II system and up to two B1 bass modules to output levels required by bands in venues up to about 500 people".  Thanks 

Hi Jim.

From your first post, you're happy with the Bose system for the guitars and vocals and the uke.

JIm posted:

I am 1/2 of an acoustic duo. We use the Bose system for two vocal lines and 2 instruments line. Our Martin Acoustic guitars w/ built in preamp work great with the system. Plenty of volume and overall great sound. We also use a Uke thru a Radial pz-pre acoustic preamp to give the Uke a boost into the ToneMatch.  This too delivers the amplified results we want. The problem is with my National Resolectric Guitar.

Yes, it's time to do some diagnostic troubleshooting to isolate the problem with the National Resolectric Guitar (or the signal chain before you get to the Bose system).

JIm posted:

Thanks everybody. If I can get the sound or tone I'm looking for I have solved 50% of the problem solved.

The characteristic tone you're looking for may only be possible with an electric guitar amp (or guitar amp modeler). 

JIm posted:

I have the National going thru several Boss pedals and also give the National a boost with a  Radial pz-pre acoustic preamp.

Most Boss guitar pedals are designed to be connected to a guitar amp (not a mixer or PA).  Unless one of the Boss pedals has guitar amp or guitar speaker cabinet modeling, you may not get the tone you want to hear.

Once you have the tone the L1 can share that with the room.

However something is still robbing my volume. I'll likely have to divided and conquer. One pedal at a time to different to inputs on the ToneMatch and log the impact..

To save some time;

  • T1 channels 1, 2, and 3 have the same electronic characteristics
  • T1 inputs 4/5 have the same electronic characteristics (different from channels 1, 2, and 3)

If you want to contrast and compare, save some time and compare channel 3 to input 4.

I'm just trying to not lug a small amp to the gig.

That's where the guitar amp modeler comes in. I often use a Boss GT-1 between my electric guitar and the L1. There are several products from Boss that have Boss COSM amp technology. And there are similar products from Line 6.

Our acoustic duo play small clubs of like 50 people. I just always go back to Bose's claim of "the L1™ Model II system and up to two B1 bass modules to output levels required by bands in venues up to about 500 people".  Thanks 

You've already narrowed down the problem to the sound of the National Resolectric Guitar. 

ST

"The hole in daddy's arm where all the money goes" (John Prine) . Ok I have an update. Good news. I took to the divide and conquer route. Started over with my pedal board and T1 settings. First thing I did was eliminate a Boss SD-1 Overdrive. Nothing wrong with the pedal just not the sound I was looking for I finally realized. That made things better. Still not quite enough on the low end so I added a Boss Blues Driver BD-2 pedal. That added the lows I was looking for and a little more crunch. As you may recall I was trying like **** not to drag a guitar amp to the gig. We put all our acoustic duo vocals and instruments thru The Bose L1 Model II B1.  I also found some of the T1 settings on my instrument line were not bypassed. Delay, Reverb, EQ etc... All bypassed now. Whew. Soooo much better.  Thanks to everyone that had suggestions.

More good news. "It's all about the bass not that treble". I previously was trying to shape my tone with effects pedals. DOH ! I finally have a Boss GE-7 EQ in the pedal chain. "Now we're on the trolley" ! All kinds of great sounds.  Tuner, Blues Driver, EQ, Delay, Reverb, ToneMatch, Beer.   Cheers!

Thanks again everybody

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