L1 model II / T1 discussion - March 29th

Hey everyone,

As you know tomorrow and in the days ahead there will be *lots* to talk about. Myself and several other of the -at-Bose folks will be ready and really looking forward to answering any and all questions about the new products. As a team we are really proud of the new products and can hardly wait to show them off!

So everyone is on the same page, please read the information that will be posted on the main website (www.bose.com/musicians) beginning tomorrow (3/29).

There will be a new section of the messageboard dedicated to discussion about the new products, so I'll see you over there.

Looking forward to it,
MikeZ
Original Post
Live from Messe ...

Well, the cat's out of the bag (all the way this time). I can't wait for the web site to pop for everyone.

The initial response from the press here has been terrific in my opinion. They seem to really be "getting it" this time. I hope that we'll see lots of reviews in upcoming issues.

The band here, called Straight Up, is simply HOT! They did an amazing job at the shows we did yesterday for press only. I'm supposed to be sitting patiently on the side of the stage, waiting for my cues, and I find my self bouncing my head or tapping my feet. They are great (and it sounds great too).

I'm meeting many fans of the current system too. The Model II is making fans quickly and the T1 is a blast. Hilmar showed a guy yesterday how to use it and within minutes the guy was showing his buddies how to run it.

I'll be here to chime in more after you guys get to dig into the web site.

e-ya later in the day,
Steve

PS Harmony Central was here yesterday so keep an eye on their site for content as well.
quote:
Originally posted by tombo007:
On the main website it says the release date is March 30th.

I this wrong?


It's a surprise to me. An internal call yesterday said it would be up this morning. Since the folks at Bose are just now rolling in, they may not have hit the switch or there may have been a minor delay. I'm waiting too.

quote:
What will the price be?


AMRP for an L1 Model II Cylindrical Radiator with B1 Bass Module and T1 Tone Match Module is $2999.99

The T1 Tone Match Module is $499.99, so if you're a DJ and don't need the mic preamps and just want to use the one line level in from your mixer, you can subtract the price of the T1 for a L1 Model II/B1 combo price of $2499.99.
Additional B1 models stay the same. L1 Model I stays the same.

quote:
Can you buy the stand with out the remote?


What stand?

quote:
I'm placing my order today!

I bought my L1 11/15/03.

Long time user
Tombo


Thank you for your early belief and continued support. I think you'll enjoy this.
quote:
Originally posted by Oldghm:
Tom have you been up al night waiting? Hurry up guys.

O


I was excited to see if everyone was buzzing yet, so when I woke up at 4:00 to use the facilities I also had a quick look online.

I'm truly impressed with the great work our friends at-Bose have done. BRAVO!!! Cool
quote:
Are there the same number of drivers in the new model as the Classic, and is there more power for the Model II?


There are the same number of drivers in a model II, and the max sound level output between a Classic and model II is almost identical.
Looks like the Bose folks heard us. It has alot of the 'wish-list' stuff we've talked about ... ez to read/see, effects, etc.

NICE WORK !

I'll still have to make an audio loop of screeming happy fans to play between all my songs tho... dang, you guys have got to add that to the next unit <G>
Part of tone match... some of the voices have to chant the owner's name too.
According to Bose:

No. The cylindrical radiators look the same, but they are not swappable between the Model I and Model II.

There is no "basic" remote...The T1 *is* the remote for the Model II and is plugged into the Model II base via an Ethernet cable.

Like the Model I, you can use the system without a remote at all...which is why you can buy a Model II without the T1. This is to meet DJ needs.

The B1 remains the same.

Actually, making the T1 usable with the Model I (via a straight audio connection) is brilliant...it gives you almost all of the significant enhancements without having to buy a whole new system.
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew Douglas:
According to Bose:

No. The cylindrical radiators look the same, but they are not swappable between the Model I and Model II.


Not smart from an end user perspective - but nice from a sales point.

My opinion, you should have at least made 'enhanced L1 sticks' that the new stand would adjust to - yet behave like a PS1 w/o remote for old style L1 sticks.

So, if I need to make another purchase, most likely it will be an old style system for redundant part swap.
A small correction on pricing in the us:

Model II with 1 B1 MSRP $2499.00, T1 $499.00. Pennies different but I wanted to set the record straight.

I can't wait for you guys to hear this Model II. It STILL blows my mind and I've been listenting to it MANY times a day this week (and quite a bit the last 9 months or so). It's very cool if you ask me ... but I'm a bit biased.

The most amazing thing to me, here in Frankfurt, is how quickly newbies learn to run the T1. Within minutes they are flying around the thing making adjustments. It's very cool to watch.

The other thing that's fun to watch is the people who walk all the way down the side of the stage trying to find a dull spot in the sound field. They smile or shake their head in disbelief. I know how they feel. Smile

Lastly, folding and unfolding the legs is just good clean fun. People love doing it. The Model 2 power stand is 21 pounds and people always seem to smile in disbelief.

Sleep is hard to come by here for the Bose folks here (and it's about to get worse) but I am completely jazzed! Can you belive the pay us to do this?

Steve

PS A big shout out to the dev team. We did it! It's ALIVE!!!! And a whole lotta thanks to the musicians who gave us feedback along the way. Told-ja we were listening. Smile Keep it coming.

I REALLY need to sleep. Tomorrow I've got to play a substitute at the electric guitar booth for an hour. Anyone know a good "learn German REALLY, REALLY fast" course? What day is it?
I wish they would of made the power stands interchangeable with the towers. Confused I have invested a lot of my money in Bose L's and now they make my L1 obsolete. (not really) But I totally disagree with their marketing approach. Yeah the new unit is cool but I need a new power stand. I thought they would improve the L1 power stand with a better mixer and make it for use with all PAS/L1 product.

The L1 I have now (purchased 11/2003) has it's problems,sometimes! I played 2 gigs last Sat, the afternoon gig was great 6 hours. 1:00 to 7:00, went to my 2nd gig and the power stand would not work!! I went into all amps in and could use the unit and play the gig (get paid) The next day I set up the system and it worked, thank god! I know I can send it back and pay $250 to get it reworked but I play every weekend. I saving up some time and money to send it back and get it fixed soon!

Just my opinion!

Were Musicians not millionaires!

This Model II is not in the L1's family, it's a new Model!!!!!!! The only old Bose product that works with the new Model II is the B1's.

Sorry for the rant.
quote:
I have invested a lot of my money in Bose L's and now they make my L1 obsolete.



Hi Tombo,

We're obviously very interested in finding ways to make improvements. The L1 classic was an improvement over the conventional approach, and the Model II and T1 represent further improvements. But at the same time, we're being very careful not to force these new features on anyone who doesn't need them. So if the L1 classic does everything you need, then you're all set! There's no need to upgrade to the Model II. And far from being obsolete, the L1 classic will still be available -- we'll keep right on selling and maintaining them alongside the Model II.


quote:
I thought they would improve the L1 power stand with a better mixer and make it for use with all PAS/L1 product.


That's the beauty of the T1: if you're looking for things like more inputs, built-in effects and processing, more powerful tone controls, etc., you can add the T1 to your existing setup without having to invest in an entirely new system -- or even a new power stand.



And by the way -- I'm sorry to hear about your power stand problems. I hope you've contacted our support group: 1-877-335-2673. They should be able to help you out.
quote:
Originally posted by DJ ED:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andrew Douglas:
According to Bose:
No. The cylindrical radiators look the same, but they are not swappable between the Model I and Model II.

quote:
So, if I need to make another purchase, most likely it will be an old style system for redundant part swap.

DJ ED,
Also bear in mind what Mikez-at-Bose posted:
quote:
The line arrays for the three models:

L1(tm) Classic (what everyone has now)
L1(tm) model I
L1(tm) model II

Are not interchangeable with each other.

Meaning if you want parts swapping you will need to buy Classic models...not Model 1.
I'm just back from MusicMesse in Frankfurt and our debut of the new system.

The band; "Straight Up"; simply killed it. I couldn't imagine better playing. They got tighter and stronger as the show progressed and the last day they were off the chart. All great players and the singers; both different but both great musicians; went for the fences every time and the whole thing was to be believed only by being there.

The band was set up exactly like the Linemen, amazingly. I must have done 50 shows with this band from all the shows in our theater in Framingham to all over America, Canada, Germany and Holland. And so, I've really got the sound of those shows in my head. It's a very exciting "live-CD"-like sound and it was alway consistant and familiar, even though we played in a lot of different places. And so I was particularly interested in standing by the keyboard position; where I played with the Linemen at stage left; to see how the new system's sound related. I never played with a full band during development, even though others certainly did. This would be my first real full-band listen. I must tell you that, while it was similar, the instruments sound clearer and closer, plain and simple. I was very happy with what I heard and thought you should hear about it.
Innerestin': At full chat, the L1/II is about as loud as the L1"classic" in front but definitely louder off to the side, due to the extra bit of spectrum wrap we got with the articulated array. Plus, we did all this with less power by the application of Real Science: a far better impedance match to the amp, a better amp, better power control processing and an improvement in the acoustical package. As a result, the new Power Stand is lighter. Sort of like the car engines from the 1930's can't touch today's lighter-weight EFI engines. The new unit is a real engineering acheivement.
Ah, the Kick Gate. Wait till you get your hands on this little wonderment. It defies description, but let me try:

Live kick drum has always been a problem for me, in particular with the overall sonic integrity of our system. To get a good agressive kick sound onstage, we were always close to feedback. And because of this, the kick mic always rebroadcast the bass guitar in particular, thereby muddying up the ensemble mix. Yeah, we had nice sounding shows, but I never loved the kick and the sound of the bass. I always knew it could sound better.

I witnessed this demo: A retaining wall of bass speakers was arranged in an approximate semicircle around the front of the kick drum, a big resonant one and not the little damped one we use for our shows. With the KickGate adjusted properly, the kick produced little atomic explosions in and around the drum, but no feedback. Bam, bam, tight, punchy and clear. Then the demonstrator ("Mike-at-Bose") took the mic out of the drum and banged on the grille of the bass speaker with the mic itself. Bam, bam, tight, punchy and clear, and no feedback. Think about this a moment. You can do the same when you get your own T1 (ah, that's "Mr. T1" to you, as in " ah pity th' foo' ")

At the Frankfurt show, the bass was the clearest and most defined I have heard it. I know this is partially because the kick didn't rebroadcaast the bass signal onstage.

I think people will buy the T1 just because of this one feature. It's not available anywhere else, it's patently unique in its approach and it solves a major problem that exists in all sound systems, not just those using the L1. It's a bigger problem with the L1 because everything is so much clearer. The L1 reveals more than a stage full of roaring and conflicting sound systems ("The Triple Amplification System").

The KickGate is like when you first saw the L1 system. "That shouldn't work". Same for the Kick Gate.
I just have to tell you little story about the KickGate.

A couple months ago, Mike and I were working on a demo setup with it. We were using a full-size drum, a big honking 18" sub (for reasons I decline to explain), driven by a bigger-than-kilowatt amp. For maximum effect we had the sub in the corner of the room. All was working fine, perfectly adjusted, but I decided that the amp had too much fan noise, so I swapped it out for a quieter one of the same power. The amp was near the corner, so I was squatting next to the sub when I turned the amp on. Of course I had the amp volume all the way down when I did this--what kind of dummy do you think I am? So, no problem. I turned up the gain on the amp, and kept on going up to full. No problem. Not even a hint of regeneration. We've got the KickGate, remember?

So Mike just taps the kick drum pedal with his foot to make sure we're live, and !!!BAMM!!!--I thought I was dead. It felt like being inside God's own kick drum when The Man puts the hammer down. And it was so tight that it was all over in far less than a second. No boooom, no ringing, just silence, except for the sound of me whimpering and Mike apologizing. ("I just tapped it Chris, I barely hit it, I swear.") Well, I couldn't even stand up for a little bit.

So after a more "professional" amp gain adjustment, we figured out that I had set the gain about 30 dB too high. There was no warning sign. You know, you turn up the gain until you hear that you're close to feedback, then you back off, right? Not with the KickGate in there, you don't. You better be careful, because this thing is loaded. There will be no warning at all, so creep up slow and keep tapping.

You guys will have fun with this. We sure do.
Chris
Just had my first blast at using the L1 system. I was not convinced of its appropriateness for a band such as mine. Loud Guitars, Bass, oppressive huge keys and a full, aggressive kit.

Bowled over by the system in use - it may have certain uses where it excel over others and vice versa, but the ability to turn up most anywhere and plug in and play, with a very portable quick setup. This rocks. Big bells!
YOU FIENDS!

Haha, I was hoping to buy an L1 soon, but looks like I'm going to be short because the L1-II has so many more things I want (need? No. Want? Ohyes) so I'll just have to wait.

BUT, I was wondering. What's the plan on getting this new system into guitar center so I can play with this T1 gadget and fall more in love with the black towers?

Thanks!
Just got my Model II to replace my Classic, which I have 2 of.

Only played through it for about an hour last night and will have it on stage tomorrow, but there are a few surprises I was unprepared for.

The good ones were that the carrying cases are improved with the bumper pad at the ends, the cord pocket for the stand is inside rather than the previous zippered arrangement and no more locking interface between the base and speakers.

Now the bad; what happened to the rich full sound, even without a sub connected!?!

Although I love the sound with the sub connected, at the least the Classic sounds great at practice levels whereas the Model II sounds like it's ready to die of starvation, and no amount of EQ from the guitar would cure it.

Bad move taking the ports out of the speaker columns and I hope they put them back soon.

Fortunately they sound great with subs, which is how I use them 90% of the time, but to have them sound completely useless unless I put the subs on is a huge bummer, which cost me a lot of money too.

The best things of course were the reasons I bought the Model II; wide, wide dispersion and very compact and portable base unit.
You're missing something fundamental about the Model II.

You MUST use a B1 AT ALL TIMES. It's designed that way. That's why you cannot purchase a Model II without buying a B1 to go with it. The "problem" you're having is that you're not using the system as it's meant to be used.

This has been well documented elsewhere.

Also, why is taking the port out of the speaker column automatically a bad thing? The point is how it sounds, not how Bose achieves that sound.

The Model II cylindrical radiators are completely redesigned and not the same thing as the Classic/Model I radiators.

Hope this helps....

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