L1 Model II

Let's talk about the L1® Portable Line Array Systems

Using proprietary Bose® technology, L1 systems combine  PA and monitors into a single, highly portable unit. The  loudspeaker can be positioned behind or to the side —and you hear what the audience hears.

Highly portable PA and monitor combined for solo performers, DJs and general-purpose use. Fixed vertical control with 180° horizontal coverage Reduced vulnerability to feedback.

Three systems to choose from (Compact, Model 1S, Model II)
Two passive bass module options (B1 or B2)
Consistent coverage and tonal balance, portability and easy setup.

L1® Compact System Questions

quote:
Originally posted by HLH:
I'm already hearing a lot of what I take to be misinformation. It looks to me like the L1 Compact is a true line array but I've heard people say that it isn't so I'd like to confirm that it is.

I'd also like to know if the speakers are the same ones used in the larger L1 systems and if they are not, I'd like to know their diameter as some are claiming they are smaller.

Some people are saying that there is no woofer in the base. I'd like to confirm that there is one. I'd also like to know if the bass response is as deep as that of the larger L1. Also, is the crossover point the same as the that of the L1 Model II?

Thanks.


Original discussion appeared in the Ask Bose for Help forum and has been moved here to the L1® Family of Products forum.

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Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by HLH:
I'm already hearing a lot of what I take to be misinformation. It looks to me like the L1 Compact is a true line array but I've heard people say that it isn't so I'd like to confirm that it is.

I'd also like to know if the speakers are the same ones used in the larger L1 systems and if they are not, I'd like to know their diameter as some are claiming they are smaller.

Some people are saying that there is no woofer in the base. I'd like to confirm that there is one. I'd also like to know if the bass response is as deep as that of the larger L1. Also, is the crossover point the same as the that of the L1 Model II?

Thanks.


Hi HLH,

Welcome to the forum.

There are certain specifications, such as those that you are asking for that we do not publically elaborate on.

Heres what I can tell you..

The L1 Compact systems power stand has integrated bass with an 8" woofer and will play down to 65hz. The drivers in the loudspeaker array are indeed smaller than those used in the L1 model I and model II systems.

I look forward to us getting our display units in stores so you can experience the performance of this system for yourself. This will be taking place over the course of the next 30 days or so.

-Neil
Hi HLH,

I'd like to add my welcome to Neil's. I'd be curious to know where the folks you talk about are talking about the L1 Compact? It may be helpful to look first hand at the sources of these opinions if they're on the internet.

Here's what we say about the array in the L1 Compact on our web site:

quote:
The L1 Compact loudspeaker array is smaller than those in L1 Model I and II systems, but it produces comparable horizontal sound coverage. L1 Model I and Model II loudspeakers project sound further with less dropoff of volume than the L1 Compact array.


Does this answer your questions?

Ken
Thanks for the replies and the welcome.

I'm resigned to the Bose policy of not providing many specifications and understand the reasoning behind the policy which is why I asked if the Compact's bass response was as deep as the larger L1 systems rather than requesting the minus 3dB point. Speaker diameter and the crossover point of the larger L! systems has been provided in the past so I thought it a fair question to ask for that information regarding the L1 Compact. Still, your responses help me better understand the performance differences between the Compact and the Models I and II.

Here is a link to the current discussion about the L1 Compact that I mentioned. http://www.acousticguitarforum...wthread.php?t=150745
quote:
Originally posted by Kramster:
Can one extension be used or just all or none?


Hi Kramster,

Thank you for your inquiry. We recommend either using both extensions (extended position) or no extensions (collapsed position)

Extended Position – Recommended for larger audiences, the extended position allows users to elevate the L1 Compact loudspeaker array,
enabling it to project sound clearly and evenly throughout larger venues. Included with the L1 Compact system are two interlocking L1 Compact
extensions used to elevate the array.

Collapsed Position – Recommended for smaller audiences, the collapsed position allows the L1 Compact loudspeaker array to be inserted in the front of the power stand, creating a very small profile. When used in this position, the system should be placed on top of a table or elevated stage. This will allow sound to project clearly and evenly throughout the room.
Kramster

Ha u doin?

The answer is yes you can use it with one extension only, putting the top of the array about 3' off the deck. Both extension pieces are identical and interchangeable. Not sure where you would use this but as more users get their hands on the Little Darling, they will teach us new things, as always, about the work we do.
Hello Cliff,

You are probably the most qualified to answer this question because of your extensive hands-on with the new Compact system. After all, none of us on this Forum has heard it in action except the at-Bose folks.

Question: How would you rate the performance of the Compact against a single B1 Model II? What would be a reasonable audience size for a single Compact being used by a singer-songwriter?

Speakers, after all, must move air. The Compact has one-quarter the number of drivers of its big brother, the drivers are smaller, and four of them point slightly up and down. To me, this translates into less energy reaching the ears of those in the seats.

I have applied a Model II with two B1's many times for guitar soloists to an audience of 350 with plenty of headroom remaining. If this room were larger, I expect 500 wouldn't be a problem either.

In your opinion, where would you rank the Compact on the 'audience scale'?
First of all, the L1C is very different in basic nature from the two original ones. It has a head-high vertically-divergent array that is ultra-wide horizontally. the vertical angle is narrow enough so its sound pressure fall-off with distance is not as severe as, say, a guitar amp, but it's somewhat greater than an L1 I or II. We have data galore taken on the L1C array, but to a musician, its not only useless, it's confusing. Thinking about this stuff intellectually leads nowhere.

So, forgetting all this, The L1C sounds the same and, from personal experience playing and singing solo, it feels the same. When I played (this seems to be a typical configuration), the system was off to the side 5' and back of me 4'. It is louder when you get on top of it (unlike the L1) so you need to get a little further from it. But not much. It's very well behaved and it's easy to arrive at an organically-correct distance from it. But; bottom line; it really behaves like the other L1's. I know it has less overall output than the big ones, but I never felt that limit playing demos for a variety of audiences prior to yesterday's launch. I know the system will allow me to entertain at a level I'm happy with in our live music theater. I really don't want more level from it. Our theater holds over 100 and is acoustically treated to be pretty dry. Charlie Farrin did the same on a number of occasions. He's an experienced pro, playing guitar and singing to demonstrate for other audiences. As an audience member listening to Charlie, I was delighted with the sound quality and level. It was exceptionally articulate musically and I understood all his words, on songs I wasn't familiar with. I'm guessing if you're playing guitar or keys and singing (a solo gig), you can play for 100 with great quality. I never thought once about the capacity of the LF. My keys are never exaggerated on the low end and I want them to sound like, for instance, a real piano or a Rhodes Suitcase. I'm guessing an organ player playing a heavy bass line and singing, like a solo gig, might put the thing to the test. I haven't experienced this and don't do it myself.
Thank you, Cliff, for your response. That's about where we need the Compact to be.

With the Models I and II, I have had to tilt them forward on occasion (no more than an inch on the PS cabinet or back legs) because the output pattern is so horizontal. This made a very audible improvement for the back seats.

I expect, with the Compact, this will no longer be necessary due to the new array configuration. Any idea what the vertical dispersion angle is on the high end?
Hi Cliff,

quote:
Originally posted by Col. Cliff-at-Bose:

✂ ✂ ✂

The L1C sounds the same and, from personal experience playing and singing solo, it feels the same.

✂ ✂ ✂



To me this is HUGE.

I want to rehearse and hear and feel what I will hear and feel when I'm playing live.

That means that if I rehearse in front of a Model II (I do), then when I get out there I want it to sound the same whether I'm in front of another Model II, a Classic (it does), or an L1® Compact. That's the dream.

Sounds like the dream come true.
It is never clear to me how BOSE determines what will be put in and what will be left out.

This product seems to have started with a price point, then figure the margin and see what can be done with what's left.

Why no tonematch port? The T1 (I think) has become a very desirable piece of equipment, and making it easy to use with the Compact would have been a big plus in my book. There simply is no good argument for not including the input / converter / power supply neccessary for its "easy" use.

No tone controls on the "guitar" input??? You guys are good but I haven't tried a guitar / pickup / preset combo yet that didn't need to be tweaked to suit my taste.

Beginners are not the only ones who want the simplicity the compact offers, but I think the well seasoned performer who might otherwise love this piece of equipment could be turned off from the lack of features and control.

The change from conventional equipment to the Bose L1 has been an enlightening experience, yet I find myself disappointed from time to time because Bose tends to intentionally not make systems that can mix and match.

I think a new power base similar to the compact that would work with the Model II speaker columns would be a good seller. If it also had two B1 capability and worked with a speaker like is in the Compact it would be a truely versatile mix and match component system that could expand or contract as the need arose.

All this being said I look forward to an opportunity to try the Compact, maybe it's good enough to make me like it.

In looking at the available info I noticed the animation showing the dispearsion characteristics for the L1C, it doesn't show any response from the base /Bass portion of the system. You may have missed a good chance to use the trick that Chris showed us in Lil' Switzerland last year. Two colors high and low response would make a good show.

O..
quote:
Originally posted by Col. Cliff-at-Bose:
The answer is yes you can use it with one extension only, putting the top of the array about 3' off the deck. Both extension pieces are identical and interchangeable. Not sure where you would use this but as more users get their hands on the Little Darling, they will teach us new things, as always, about the work we do.

What if you need to use the tabletop setup but did not have a table... Use one extension and the loudspeaker array is just a few inches higher than it would be if it was placed on a table.

I was somewhat excited when I first started reading about the L1C. Unfortunately the one venue where I play twice a month on average has an acoustically reflective ceiling and I fear that the L1C's dispersion towards the ceiling would be a problem. There are a few other locations where this would be problematic for me. My Classic and T1 are serving me well and I always appreciate the joy they add to performing. Even if the L1C does not seem to be in the cards for my needs at this time I can appreciate the fact that it will fill the needs of many in the near future. I look forward to future additions to the L1 lineup.
Le5,
Now there is an excellent suggestion. Why did't anyone else think of that.

Perhaps sit-down keyboardists, guitarists, drummers and accordian players could use it with one extension only as well. That means that the two drivers pointing slightly upward would come into play a little more. After all, how would they hear themselves while sitting down if the sound is coming out way up there?
That is what I was getting at with one extension (I think)... maybe the base off the floor a bit as makes the thing that much more versatile so if not on a stage but at audience level it gets the lower notes (though less directional) out there...and the array not too high.
quote:
It is never clear to me how BOSE determines what will be put in and what will be left out.

Yo G-hair. You think YOU don't understand this? Let me tell you, it's way more of a mystery to the people that do the work here. Let me explain: There were so many Really Good options that we considered for the L1C that it was literally a mind-numbing project to choose the right ones. The fact that we did this is amazing to me. It's an acheivement of team-work. And, contrary to what anyone might think, the L1C was developed directly from market demand. That reads "what real musicians want". It did not start as a price point. It started first as a service for players. If we put all the features that were really cool into it, I'll guarantee it wouldn't have the price it has. Basically, the question we had to answer was "what are the really high-value (bang-for-the-buck) qualities that must be put into it". And of course, that was portability, tone and coverage, not in that exact order. I think the L1C is a great acheivement in musical-equipment value. It cranks, sounds great, has very useful ToneMatch presets, is really easy to use and is deceptively easy to schlep around. And so what if it doesn't have a TM port for a T1. It's really useful on its own, and if you have a T1, use the convenient power supply and a guitar cord.

What's really interesting is that the L1C is so useful to the human race at large. It was really obvious very early on that this system could be used as easy as a Wave Radio but sound better than anything for anyone needing amplified voice or music. It's a real Volks-speaker, like a good pair of shoes. I think you'll be seeing this system literally everywhere, not just at the gig.

Kramster: What makes you think Eric, Neil and I are related? Is that because we look so much alike?
Hey Cliff,

It's always such value to hear from you. Plus great, cause you're hilarious, colorful, and a working musician. THANKS for joining the discussions brother.

When you've used the Little One, was it with your band? Were the other guys using their usual L1's? Were y'all playing at "normal" band level, kicking it pretty good?

OK - here's my REAL question: were you running your VOCAL thru the Compact too, or just your keys?

I ask because early on I used my SoloAmp with my band in a lower-key setting on a guy's patio and it was ok. Then I tried it, also with the band, kicking it in a bigger room, and it did NOT keep up. Especially my vocal just didn't have the power of the L1's running next to it. It finally actually overheated or something and quit altogether. So, I'm back to using my Classic with the band - awesome as ever. (truth told, kinda hate to admit it here, but I use the SoloAmp for my acoustic solo work, and it is great for that...)

I was wondering these additional details about your findings and results, if you can share them.

Thanks!
MIKE
Hi Cliff,
I too appreciate you weighing in. I called the closest Bose store and they are sending me an email as soon as the L1C arrives. I'm very excited to try it.

Would you mind addressing the lack of mid control on the vocal channel and the lack of any tone control on the guitar channel?

I've heard a lot of of comments and speculation on this already. I'd love to hear from those in the know!

Thanks!
Matt
Cliff...Same last name on the site "at Bose"... never mind, had to be there... So if this is what "real musicians" want..?? ...who are they... do we Bosians count too??
.
.
Andrew ... maybe "Von" Bose but "McBose or MacBose" too.... good one. Yopu are right "at" is not working unless it was misspelled and and should read "@Bose".
Either way get me one of these critters to try.
Hey, Cliff (and/or whoever knows about the design decisions)...

I'm curious about the slight 'convex' arrangement of the 6-speaker array. Why that rather than a straight or even a slightly 'concave' arrangement?

Just thinking about it, it seems that the shorter array will already have an increased vertical dispersion; I would have guessed a slightly concave configuration would have preserved more of the "big sibling's" characteristics than a convex arrangement.

Or is this question just too 'vexing? Eek Big Grin Razz

p.s.: I'm glad to read that a single extension is viable.
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Cornett:
Hey, Cliff (and/or whoever knows about the design decisions)...

I'm curious about the slight 'convex' arrangement of the 6-speaker array. Why that rather than a straight or even a slightly 'concave' arrangement?

Just thinking about it, it seems that the shorter array will already have an increased vertical dispersion; I would have guessed a slightly concave configuration would have preserved more of the "big sibling's" characteristics than a convex arrangement.

Or is this question just too 'vexing? Eek Big Grin Razz

p.s.: I'm glad to read that a single extension is viable.


Dan,

We want to help get you familiar with the system and answer your questions. As much as we would like to, I know you understand that it is not possible for us to get into all of the technical details on why we made specific design choices.

In regards to your question on using just one extension, it is not recommended in our marketing materials. This is to address the probability that not all customers will have the technical knowledge to know whether one or two will work best. It is understood that more advanced users like yourself may choose to use it with one extension, it will not harm your system, but at the same time this is not something that we are generally going to recommend.

Neil
quote:
Originally posted by Neil-at-Bose:
...it is not possible for us to get into all of the technical details on why we made specific design choices...
Marketing answer! Frown

I'm not asking for technical details. Gee, something like,

"we tried it all three ways and found the convex worked best for what we wanted to achieve"

or,

"we did some calculations and experiments which showed the convex ought to be better then flat or concave, which our ears confirmed".

or,

"we were surprised to find out that the convex arrangement was closest to the sound we were seeking".

I'm really just trying to learn something ...
Alladoods (ha u doin? thanks for the kind words)

1. My demos (that I played here on various L1C protos) were all voice and piano, both digital grand and digital Rhodes. I was very satisfied all the time, never wanted more level for me or my audiences (no more than 50, but could have easliy worked for 100). But, I'm not playing aggro rock or hip/hop with The Fat BAss. It's (always) possible someone wants to be louder. That's actually true, no matter what sound system you have.
2. I never played the L1C with my band. Look: It doesn't have the max spl as the adult L1 ( I love "the Little One" . How about "El Oneita"?). That said, I'm guessing it would work fine for most ensembles. I wish I could give you first-hand experience about this, but not yet. It's truly designed for a solo show but I will do it with the ensemble soon.
3. About features, eq, etc. It's all just talk before you try it. After you do, it's real. So wait till you (any of you) get a real tast of the little Jewel. Then let's talk. We never had anyone say they didn't like the sound or want more eq. Don't forget, our company drills deep on what customers really want. Frankly, we can't afford to NOT do this and miss the mark. We did extensive testing where we knew no one held back. We had a lot of players try our protos out. We knew it was good and right before launch.
4. The vertical convexity of the HF array will actually produce a very useful vertical dispersion at HF. The unit needs this. IF it were a straight array, you'd be shooting over the heads of, say, people seated in front of a bandstand looking up. That geometry coupled with the driver articulation (like the L1/II) makes for a spectacular distribution of sound, especially in the HF. It's amazing when you hear it.
5. Ever since the L1 came out, we have had a total nonstop monolog from customers, instrument makers, all kinds of people, asking us "can't you make something like the L1 that's lighter, easier to carry, simpler to use, sounds great but doesn't have to be so loud (as the L1)". I mean, this stream of consciousness has been nonstop, steady and unchanged since we put the L1 out over 5 years ago. Plus, it reinforced what we all knew to be true also. You can't ignore something like this. We all get it and got it all the time. That's real marketing: When the market is screaming at you nonstop, you give it what it wants and then you have a real business. It's actually pretty simple. And when a player plugs in and plays over the L1C, they'll be really happy in most cases. The L1C is simple, light and beautiful-sounding. YOu want more features and tone adjustment? We got the L1/II and the T1, the flagship Tone-Monster of all time. You want simple and a single trip to the car (including your axe)? I'll give you a hint: It ain't the big L1.
Great stuff Cliff, per always...

and great bottom line - ya gotta HEAR it. Yourself. Then we talk, again.

I've been in the habit of saying The Little One since last week - we got a new Boston Terrier puppy - Say Hello Gracie, but I call her Little One- the L1C just fell in...

Come on kids...we ALL know that Bose puts out the best product for it's intended purposes. L1 is as perfect as can be for it's intended design.
The new lil kid has it's purposal (is that a word?) design and no doubt is the best of it's kind.
Now we have the best as usual to work with... now get me one so I can prove my own point!
quote:
Originally posted by Col. Cliff-at-Bose:

3. About features, eq, etc. It's all just talk before you try it. After you do, it's real. So wait till you (any of you) get a real tast of the little Jewel. Then let's talk. We never had anyone say they didn't like the sound or want more eq. Don't forget, our company drills deep on what customers really want. Frankly, we can't afford to NOT do this and miss the mark. We did extensive testing where we knew no one held back. We had a lot of players try our protos out. We knew it was good and right before launch.


Thanks Cliff!
Again, your info is much appreciated. I enjoy the speculation about new products. That's part of the fun! Smile I like pondering how I might use something that isn't out yet. I think about how it will fit in my car, I look at any new cases I might need, what mic(s) I'd use, what guitar(s) and how I'll plug in.

I've been an avid L1 fan since first hearing one outdoors in Naples, Florida in January of 2005. I drove to Fort Myers the next day and bought my first L1! I've been a staunch supporter ever since. I'm cheering for the L1C too and I'm waiting to be proven wrong about needing EQ for my guitar.

When I play my Taylor 810ce through my T1 I use the Taylor Dreadnought Strum preset, I use the zEQ to take a -5.0 - -7.0db cut to the mids and adjust the highs and lows depending on the venue. I also use the Para EQ to take a -7.0db cut at 440Hz. With all that, can you blame me for wondering how I'll get by with no EQ for my guitar?

I'll be anxiously waiting to try one and waiting to be proven wrong!

Thanks again!
Matt
I do the same thing Matt... I already have been imagining this new kid ... how cool just to set it down on a table and plug and play. Really get all jazzed after Cliff telling us how good keys sound and can't wait to try some guitar and compare... Tis fun for sure...
quote:
Originally posted by Col. Cliff-at-Bose:
There were so many Really Good options that we considered for the L1C that it was literally a mind-numbing project to choose the right ones.
.....the L1C was developed directly from market demand. That reads "what real musicians want".

It did not start as a price point. Basically, the question we had to answer was "what are the really high-value (bang-for-the-buck) qualities that must be put into it".

And so what if it doesn't have a TM port for a T1.


Hi Col.

I appreciate your candor and hope you can appreciate mine.

I can't imagine asking a room full of real musicians "Which would you rather do, plug in the cat 5 cable and go, or untangle the cords, plug in the power supply, route the extra guitar cord and then go?", and have that question produce one positive answer for the external power supply.

Think ipod, then think T1. Bose should be so lucky to have as many devices on the market with a ToneMatch port, as the ipod has places to dock.

So much has been put into the T1, to not include a special place for it in all new products that fit in the L1 family is an oversight that only a bean counter could make. I think Bose needs a new way to measure "bang-for-the-buck".

This won't keep me from buying the L1C, though the economy might, in fact I played a while this evening with the L1C guitar preset, flat, on my Model II just to get an idea how it might sound. It wasn't what I like but in a pinch where time and convenience mattered more I could get by.

G-hair
quote:
Originally posted by Col. Cliff-at-Bose:
... I'm guessing an organ player playing a heavy bass line and singing, like a solo gig, might put the thing to the test. I haven't experienced this and don't do it myself.


I would like to see/hear the results of such a test - or even better an arranger keyboard playing and singing, "like a solo gig".
Ciao,
Jerry
quote:
Originally posted by Neil-at-Bose:
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Cornett:
Hey, Cliff (and/or whoever knows about the design decisions)...

I'm curious about the slight 'convex' arrangement of the 6-speaker array. Why that rather than a straight or even a slightly 'concave' arrangement?

Just thinking about it, it seems that the shorter array will already have an increased vertical dispersion; I would have guessed a slightly concave configuration would have preserved more of the "big sibling's" characteristics than a convex arrangement.

Or is this question just too 'vexing? Eek Big Grin Razz

p.s.: I'm glad to read that a single extension is viable.


Dan,

We want to help get you familiar with the system and answer your questions. As much as we would like to, I know you understand that it is not possible for us to get into all of the technical details on why we made specific design choices...

Neil



I've been aware of Bose's policy regarding technical specifications since the advent of the 901 and have understood the reasoning behind it. However there are many legitimate questions about Bose products whose answers do not involve violating Bose policy. Asking why the speakers of the L1 Compact are arranged on a curved plane is one such question. The answer to that question involves no more technical details than explaining Waveguide technology or the propagation of a line array as Bose does in their advertisements and product literature.

Given the misinformation found on many forums, often presented as fact, I appreciate being able to come to a forum that provides authoritative information about Bose PA systems. The absence of definitve answers creates a vacuum that is filled by more wild speculation and disinformation. I hope that future questions will be carefully considered rather than be summarily classified as requiring a response that would violate Bose specification policy.
quote:
The absence of definitve answers creates a vacuum that is filled by more wild speculation and disinformation. I hope that future questions will be carefully considered rather than be summarily classified as requiring a response that would violate Bose specification policy.


Hi HLH,

This is very thoughtful of you. We definitely try here to live up to your well-said words.

The curvature in the array is to achieve the +-20 degree vertical pattern. We designed for that pattern so the speaker would work in a typical raked seating area -- something we thought the L1 Compact system would be used for a lot, and we wanted to make sure that those seated in the front row of a cramped venue with the product in it's extended position would still get sound.

With best regards,

Ken

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