Introducing the Bose® L1® Model 1S and Bose® B2 Bass Module

Since I had the camera out anyway here is a shot of the Cylindrical Radiator®s for the
Model 1S (top two) silver labels
Model II (bottom two) black labels

Sorry about the blur - that's the best of about 10 shots.

Looking at the right side - the ends:
If you look at the middle two, those are the lower sections and you can see where the extra 4.6"





Here is a closer look at the ends.



This is what the tops look like (identical)




I already posted the pictures below in the B2 thread, but in case you haven't looked in there yet here is a look at the B2 bass module.

7000 words













Hi Litesnsirens,

quote:
Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
quote:
Originally posted by ST:
Can you use the lower extension from the Model 1S in the Model II Power Stand?

Short answer ... No. It all fits, but there is no sound from the Cylindrical Radiator®


This is a real shame!!!!
It fits but no sound, well with any luck the fact that it fits leaves the door open that at least another firmware upgrade to the power stand could possibly make it work.

At a gut level after having spent a little time plugging and unplugging things I would guess that the pins in the connectors in the Power Stands are hard wired to the power amps and that it would take more than a firmware update to change the connections.
quote:


The only reason I could think of to make it not work is if there is some underlying reason that it would be a huge no-no to use the bass line out when using the blank and the top array, this guess simply "bassed" (misspelled on purposed) on the fact that the 1s power stand does not have the bass line out. But if that is the case and it's that crucial that a simple warning of "don't use the bass line out if using the blank bottom" wouldn't suffice, could they not write the firmware update to disable the bass line out if the power stand senses that you are using the blank bottom?
....


I doubt that the bass line out has anything to do with it. That's just the impression that I get from having played around with these things a lot.


I really doubt that Bose missed the opportunity in the sense that they just failed to perceive it. More likely to me, is that they considered it and decided that it was not feasible to make it happen, or that to do it would make the power stand or the Cylindrical Radiator® more vulnerable to harm in some way.
I hear you, but here's the thing that has me wondering about Bose's decision about what's feasible. They created a new power stand that is ultimately the same as a model II with a little less in features and power. They created new cylindrical radiators including a blank one that are exactly the same and fit but don't work in model II power stands, and the created a B2 which kind of a separate entity but thank the heavens they made it work with both units.

I look on their site and apples to apples a 1s with a B1 is 1800 a model II with a B1 is 2500. So $700 difference, let's allow 300 for the B1 and call it 1500 to 2200 still a $700 difference but now we are down to the 3 components that make up these two systems. So let's start with the model II @ 2200, the 1s is 700 cheaper but we can't just assume that one radiator is 700 from that. Still if you divide the cost of the 3 components evenly it's pretty darn close at $733, so I think we can ball park it somewhere near there based on both factors. And to make my point the math doesn't have to be perfect. Here's the bottom line they spent time and energy making stuff that wouldn't work together when they could have just made the hollow cylinder, put a dummy load on it if you have to, but just use the stuff you were already making and offer another package option.

Doesn't that make more sense?? Now that I use this gear, I'm a loyal customer, maybe they know that, but don't you think as a company they would want to give the appearance of building up on what they have already offered as opposed to tearing down. And I mean tearing down in the sense that you can't build on the system from a component by component sense, they went out of their way at a cost to ensure we can't do that and to the point where for the same money piece by piece you get less with the 1s. IMHO they should have called it the model 2s and just offered the same thing but with the dummy bottom. At least then you avoid the (very valid) criticism that Oldghm makes in that they included no mixing or tone match port options that are included in the compact. Everyone would recognize that it's just an added option to the model II.

And I say all this without even having a horse in the race, 1S isn't anything that remotely appeals to me. They could have gotten a little more money out of me if they'd made them compatible because I would probably be interested in buying some dummy bottoms as I said earlier, but they missed that when they went to the lengths they did to make their own parts incompatible. The truth is I am in fact over the moon happy that the B2 came along with this release. But as a bystander assessing the merits of the ls and the decisions made by Bose I have to shake my head. Let's face it, we were all smart enough to buy Bose in the first place, so you have to give us the credit that we are smart enough to work out the numbers. We can recognize they've just cut this out and cut that out, and the only thing they've added is incompatibility. If you're going to cut power and take away the bass line out and redesign a power stand that can't be used with model 2 components at least add a 3 channel mixer with tonematch switches so you can disable the tonematch settings if you want to and leave it flat. Now you've got something truly new that fits the middle ground. I mean I recently purchased a Yamaha DX10 powered speaker, I just wanted something small to carry to quick jams. At 1100 watts this thing kicks butt and for $650 it has 3 inputs with volume controls, it sounds great. This is the kind of thing you're competing with. I would have bought a compact but I don't need that kind of sound dispersion for what I'll use this thing for, nor do I need to spend almost double and it's got more dispersion than a guitar amp.

Anyway that's this week's episode of "Kev's View On Life". I don't want to come off as argumentative, just speaking my mind. I value everyone's comments and more than anything I value my Bose gear and the company itself, I just don't get the 1S thing. Sorry!!!
quote:
Originally posted by ST:
At a gut level after having spent a little time plugging and unplugging things I would guess that the pins in the connectors in the Power Stands are hard wired to the power amps and that it would take more than a firmware update to change the connections.


I really doubt that Bose missed the opportunity in the sense that they just failed to perceive it. More likely to me, is that they considered it and decided that it was not feasible to make it happen, or that to do it would make the power stand or the Cylindrical Radiator® more vulnerable to harm in some way.




We know that there is no harm done when using a Model II with only the bottom section. If the 1S speaker components were wired to line up with the connectors for the Model II bottom, it would work in a Model II base with no harm to the system.

Having only one section of the array would mess with spectral balance I'm sure, but that could be corrected with a program change and update. The system would have to sense there was only one speaker to make the EQ change but I think that could be accomplished. If there are other significant DSP changes that make the 1S speaker work well, well, that might be a different animal. We'll probably never really know the answers.

Not suggesting anybody try to modify a speaker or a powerstand, just saying I think Bose had the option.

I don't believe the decisions on what to commercialize are taken lightly. I think they probably are made over many cups of coffee and the gnashing of teeth, but that doesn't help me understand this one.

In my previous post I said, "I don't think Bose could add enough possibilities to make the 1S less desirable than it is, if the features are a good value".

That statement should have read, "..... less desirable than it is to a Model II owner"...... .

I do think there is a market for the 1S, and possibly quite sizable, but not nearly as great as it might have been.

Litesnsirens makes good points about value in his post above. Once again we are on the same page.

O..

edited for clarity, hope it helped
quote:
Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
We can recognize they've just cut this out and cut that out, and the only thing they've added is incompatibility.


Well said Litesnsirens!

I would really, really love to hear someone @ Bose address the incompatibility.

I'm not as active on here as I used to be but I'm firmly in the Bose camp and have toured with nothing but L1's since January of 2005! I have owned all the different L1's. I bought my Classic the day after hearing when while on tour in Florida. I barely had room for it in the car with my big old system! I was on the waiting list for the Model 2 and the T1 and took delivery of those the day they became available. It look me a little while to get a Compact after it was released. Now my shows are probably close to 50% Compact and 50% Model 2. In short, I love my L1's.

Like I said (and others have said) as a Model 2 owner I don't need a 1S but from my point of view, Bose had a chance to take what I (and others) have and make it maybe a bit more portable, more versatile and more adaptable. And for reasons that have yet to be explained, chose not to do this.

I know perhaps I'm just bummed that there was all this excitement over a new L1 and I have no reason to get one but it would be great to get an official explanation on the incompatibility.

Thanks!
Matt
Great posts guys...I'm with you totally.
But in a way, I'm relieved and happy not to have to buy the 1S.
Even as a product referral specialist for Bose, I don't feel the need for it.
I'm off the hook.

The B2 I'm happy to buy, based on what I've read here, it's a real upgrade.
I had expected maybe a powered sub at a grand, this option is cheaper and power-able with what I already have.
Thanks for that Bose, I really appreciate it!
I just saw this . Bose is having a special Bose l1s and b2 event for DJs and mucisians to try and buy the products at a special price.

Unfortunately, the Craigslist post was removed.

10/15: Bose Live Music Event /DJ's/Musicians/ Presenters
boston.craigslist.org › metro west › event › events
Sep 19, 2012 – Bose L1 portable line array system demonstration with popular Charlie Farren and Jon Butcher LIVE in concert. Monday, October 15th 2012 ...

I would love for the Bose reps to hold similar events across the country for loyal Bose users like us to try the products and purchase directly from Bose at a DISCOUNT.
I went to the atlanta store today. They have three in stock but the demo model has not had the firmware updated, so I could not tell what the different settings sound like. The sales rep said they have no access to Internet on the sales floor to perform such an update for the floor model or for any customers that do not have a T1.

The sales person also was not aware that buyers could be asking them to perform a firmware upgrade.
quote:
Originally posted by open-road-matt:
I know perhaps I'm just bummed that there was all this excitement over a new L1 and I have no reason to get one but it would be great to get an official explanation on the incompatibility.



I was thinking earlier as I posted, the Bose guys are reading this and saying, That O.. he must be crazy, bashing us because he can't spend money he doesn't have, for a product he doesn't need. Smile

O..
Hi Balvinder,

EDIT - I just found out that this event has been cancelled. See Note from Craig-at-Bose

quote:
Originally posted by Atlanta DJ:
I just saw this . Bose is having a special Bose l1s and b2 event for DJs and mucisians to try and buy the products at a special price.

Unfortunately, the Craigslist post was removed.

10/15: Bose Live Music Event /DJ's/Musicians/ Presenters
boston.craigslist.org › metro west › event › events
Sep 19, 2012 – Bose L1 portable line array system demonstration with popular Charlie Farren and Jon Butcher LIVE in concert. Monday, October 15th 2012 ...

I would love for the Bose reps to hold similar events across the country for loyal Bose users like us to try the products and purchase directly from Bose at a DISCOUNT.


Here's an announcement - same event?



Full sized version of poster - pdf format

EDIT - I just found out that this event has been cancelled. See Note from Craig-at-Bose
Price difference between model 11 and model 1s is around $700.00 or about $58.00 per speaker for the extra 12. Is there any other significant differences?
Being newer does the 1s have improved DSP or other technical advances that model 11 does not have? Are the speakers and base unit essentially the same? If they are you would think they would be inter changeable.
Hi Balvinder,

I just found out that this event has been cancelled. See Note from Craig-at-Bose

quote:
Originally posted by Atlanta DJ:
I just saw this . Bose is having a special Bose l1s and b2 event for DJs and mucisians to try and buy the products at a special price.

Unfortunately, the Craigslist post was removed.

10/15: Bose Live Music Event /DJ's/Musicians/ Presenters
boston.craigslist.org › metro west › event › events
Sep 19, 2012 – Bose L1 portable line array system demonstration with popular Charlie Farren and Jon Butcher LIVE in concert. Monday, October 15th 2012 ...

I would love for the Bose reps to hold similar events across the country for loyal Bose users like us to try the products and purchase directly from Bose at a DISCOUNT.
Has anyone measured or detected what the vertical displacement pattern is like on the Model 1S? The Compact is +/- 30 degrees, the Model II is 0 degrees.
With a live audience in the front row and the fact that the 1S only has the top section active, what might the distance have to be in order to keep everyone in the dispersion pattern? (That is without tilting the 1S.)
Hi Shawn,

The Model 1S is a straight, articulated array.

That is

Straight = all drivers point straight out - parallell to the floor (compared to the Compact that has the drivers pointed in a curve or arc in the verticle plane). The Model II is a straight array (0° vertical dispersion). The Model 1S is has a bigger vertical dispersion (10°Wink because (at least in part, because it is shorter, and elevated). (very long explanation goes here).

Articulated = drivers are pointing left and right in the horizontal plane. The Model II is an articulated array.

I'm not at my regular computer so I'll have to get back to you with references.

Hope that's good enough for now.



quote:
Originally posted by shawn smith:
Great question...

i.e. Does the Model L1S have any drivers mounted with vertical convexity to produce vertical dispersion, like Clifff-at-Bose explains why the L1 Compact does on the Compact Wiki page.

I can't find anything in the L1 Model 1S materials about it. Can anyone confirm?
Hi Bose Guy in Calgary,

More detail:

The Compact vertical dispersion is 40° (+/- 20 °)

The Model 1S vertical dispersion is 10° (+/- 5 °)


The Model II vertical dispersion is 0° (+/- 0 °)

Reference: L1® Comparisons page (see first link)

quote:
Originally posted by Bose Guy in Calgary:
Has anyone measured or detected what the vertical displacement pattern is like on the Model 1S? The Compact is +/- 30 degrees, the Model II is 0 degrees.
With a live audience in the front row and the fact that the 1S only has the top section active, what might the distance have to be in order to keep everyone in the dispersion pattern? (That is without tilting the 1S.)


I think this will depend on the distance between the audience and the Model 1S and how far below the Cylindrical Radiator (top portion) their ears are.
Thanks for the update ST.

My friend DJ Frank brought up some interesting points:

If it takes both the amp in the stand plus a paclite to run 4 B1's. How is the B2 able to produce more bass than 4 B1's from just the amp in the stand? Does the power needed for the B2 take away from the power needed for the Column?

Will there be some kind of update for the paclite so that it can sense the position of the switch on the B2?
Hi Balvinder,

quote:
Originally posted by Atlanta DJ:
Thanks for the update ST.

My friend DJ Frank brought up some interesting points:

If it takes both the amp in the stand plus a paclite to run 4 B1's. How is the B2 able to produce more bass than 4 B1's from just the amp in the stand?

The B2 is more efficient AND the system EQ is triggered by the position of the B2 switch.
quote:



Does the power needed for the B2 take away from the power needed for the Column?

No.

There are two amplifiers in the Power Stand.
One for the B1/B2
One for the Cylindrical Radiator®

Assuming adequate power at the AC outlet the two amps should operate independently.
quote:

Will there be some kind of update for the paclite so that it can sense the position of the switch on the B2?

No, all the sensing is done by the Power Stand.

The PackLite is straight power amp. It does not have any circuitry to tell it how many bass modules (B1 or B2 are attached). It just amplifies the signal at the Power Stand Bass Line Out.

The Model II Power Stand firmware updates allow it to recognize the position of the switch on the B2. When you change the B2 switch you notify the Model II Power Stand to alter the signal output to the Bass output, and the Bass Line Out.

Did that help?
quote:
The Model II Power Stand firmware updates allow it to recognize the position of the switch on the B2. When you change the B2 switch you notify the Model II Power Stand to alter the signal output to the Bass output, and the Bass Line Out.


Hello ST,

Based on the above observation, if you run a Model II with a B2 and a packlite with another B2 with the switch in the + position would that would determine the eq for both B2's?.

If so, what position would the switch on the B2 powered by the packlite need to be in and would it make a difference?.

Hope the question was understandable.

Thanks DJ Frankie C (Satin Latin)
Hi DJ Frankie C (Satin Latin)

quote:
Originally posted by Satin Latin:
quote:
The Model II Power Stand firmware updates allow it to recognize the position of the switch on the B2. When you change the B2 switch you notify the Model II Power Stand to alter the signal output to the Bass output, and the Bass Line Out.


Hello ST,

Based on the above observation, if you run a Model II with a B2 and a packlite with another B2 with the switch in the + position would that would determine the eq for both B2's?.

The position of the switch on the B2 that is directly attached to the Model II Power Stand will determine the EQ of the signal sent to both B2s.
quote:


If so, what position would the switch on the B2 powered by the packlite need to be in and would it make a difference?.

I just did some testing using different combinations of sound sources and power amps (not Power Stands) and from what I can tell, the position of the B2 (not directly connected to a Power Stand) does not affect the sound of that B2.

Based on that, ... for the B2 attached to the PackLite amp, the position of the B2 switch should not matter.


quote:

Hope the question was understandable.

Thanks DJ Frankie C (Satin Latin)


Did I answer your question?
Hi tahtah,

quote:
Originally posted by tahtah:
How about Lion Mountain tonematch updater? No PowerPc programs can use in MacOs. 10.8. How can I update firmware?


This is a known issue and Craig-at-Bose has announced in the last few days that a new version of the L1® Updater for Mac Lion and Mountain Lion will be coming out very soon.


Good news here:
quote:
Originally posted by Craig-at-Bose:
Hi JohnNell,

We are wrapping up the Mac Updater this week. I expect to have the final version possibly today. I'll make a post as soon as it's up.

Craig


Original Post
Hello Everyone,
I am happy to announce that Bose has a program set up to get updates to anyone who chooses to purchase a B2 module as an add-on to an L1 Model II.

If you currently own a T1 Tonematch Engine:
You can perform the update using your own computer at home. If you encounter any issues during the process, or if you do not have a compatible computer with internet access, feel free to contact L1 Technical Support at (877) 335-2673.

If you do not own a T1 Tonematch Engine, you have a couple options:

If you purchased from a Guitar Center or Bose retail outlet, you can bring your power stand into the store to perform the update using the Tonematch engine from their demo system. We would strongly recommend calling the store before you go there so that they are aware.
To do this, you will need to bring the following items with you:
• Your Model II power stand (no speakers needed)
• A laptop computer
o You will want to download all the appropriate files from our website. You will need the “L1 Model II system power stand firmware v1.4” zip file as well as the appropriate L1 Updater software for your platform (PC or Mac)
• A USB cable (standard A to B)

If you did not purchase from Guitar Center or a Bose store, do not own a compatible laptop, or are unable to make it to the store for any reason:
Call L1 Technical Support at (877) 335-2673, and we will ship you out a loaner Tonematch to perform the update at no charge!! We will even cover the cost of shipping both ways!
You will still need a computer with internet access and a USB cable, but you can then do the update from the comfort of your own home!
(Please note that this option is currently available for our U.S. customers only. If you are outside the U.S., contact your Bose-authorized service provider or point-of-purchase and they will work with you to ensure you get the update.)

Keep in mind that even without updating the firmware, the L1 Model II will still work with a B2 set to “normal” mode. However, we want to make sure that you can get the full benefit of all the voicing options that the B2 module has to offer.

Give us a call at (877) 335-2673 if you have any questions.
quote:
Originally posted by Adam-at-Bose:
Hello Everyone,
I am happy to announce that Bose has a program set up to get updates to anyone who chooses to purchase a B2 module as an add-on to an L1 Model II.

If you currently own a T1 Tonematch Engine:
You can perform the update using your own computer at home. If you encounter any issues during the process, or if you do not have a compatible computer with internet access, feel free to contact L1 Technical Support at (877) 335-2673.

If you do not own a T1 Tonematch Engine, you have a couple options:

If you purchased from a Guitar Center or Bose retail outlet, you can bring your power stand into the store to perform the update using the Tonematch engine from their demo system. We would strongly recommend calling the store before you go there so that they are aware.
To do this, you will need to bring the following items with you:
• Your Model II power stand (no speakers needed)
• A laptop computer
o You will want to download all the appropriate files from our website. You will need the “L1 Model II system power stand firmware v1.4” zip file as well as the appropriate L1 Updater software for your platform (PC or Mac)
• A USB cable (standard A to B)

If you did not purchase from Guitar Center or a Bose store, do not own a compatible laptop, or are unable to make it to the store for any reason:
Call L1 Technical Support at (877) 335-2673, and we will ship you out a loaner Tonematch to perform the update at no charge!! We will even cover the cost of shipping both ways!
You will still need a computer with internet access and a USB cable, but you can then do the update from the comfort of your own home!
(Please note that this option is currently available for our U.S. customers only. If you are outside the U.S., contact your Bose-authorized service provider or point-of-purchase and they will work with you to ensure you get the update.)

Keep in mind that even without updating the firmware, the L1 Model II will still work with a B2 set to “normal” mode. However, we want to make sure that you can get the full benefit of all the voicing options that the B2 module has to offer.

Give us a call at (877) 335-2673 if you have any questions.


Now thats what you call true customer care! At least here in Atlanta, GC still does not have a demo to showcase the full range for the B2.
Hey that's pretty cool. Hard to beat this offer. I travel around and am often many miles from a GC like I am now. This mail offer looks great. My question is... is there a requirement to buy a B2 now to take advantage of this offer?

I want to save up the money and can't buy one immediately. But when I do, I want my 2 L1/II systems ready. So can I do this by-mail offer anyway before I buy a B2?
Hi Tom,

I posted about this near the top of this thread, but I'll re-post here and in the L1 Updater thread.

quote:
Originally posted by ST:
Very Important Notice

Updated instructions
Important: After step #3 below (firmware update) you need to restart your system to see the firmware version number update on the T1®. I have inserted instructions in the screen shot below.



If you have already installed the updates The T1 and the L1 Updater sofware will report that you are now on version 1.2
Install the new files in the link in this notice.

If you see this error message click Yes






Original Post
this new system looks great,,its been long overdue to bring out an inbetween rig from compact to mII,however i do see something missing,,why wasnt it designed like the compact in being able to choose between extensions?,,many times i used my compacts at half height on high stages,the mII sometimes brings the top tower very close to the ceilings and can cause feedback issues,,at half height this would be an amazing tool for high stages,,also it would be great if mII owners had an option to use a half height extension and really think that these systems should be able to chop and change components.
Got my B2 in and am playing with it a little since I didn't book a gig for tonight. Very impressive! It does have the bass of at least 4 B1's, and I think it has more of that 100 Hz punch that some want more of.

Anyone else notice that the 4-conductor speakon cable that came with the B2 is shorter than the cable that comes with the B1?
B2 Cables: Heads Up
The cables that ship with the new B2 are 40 inches long. That is 20 inches shorter than the cables that shipped with the B1 (60 inches). Except for length the cables are identical.

You might want to check that your new cable works in your application.


This has been mentioned in a couple of posts. Just giving this a little more visibility.



--∈∞ΘΞ Please click the picture for more details ΞΘ∞∋--

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