Indian Classical Music - Live performance

Hi,

Recently purchased an L1/Model II with Tonematch T8S. Love it so far but have had a few issues for which I would like the community here to weigh in. In searching this forum, I see a few posts but those are somewhat dated; I did read the part about feedback basics, mic placement/gain structure and such.

1. Placement of speakers: This is the singular reason for my purchase of L1's. I've reviewed many videos/testimonials etc. and from my limited experience now with the L1, I've had trouble placing it behind the performers. My set up involves 6 to 8 mics; 3 Vocals (SM58), 1 Tabla (drum set)- have done both SM 57 and SM 81 (condenser); Harmonium/violin on SM57 and Bansuri (Bamboo Flute) on AKG C1000; And an iPhone app for the drone directly into the T8S. I've had to set up the L1's stage Left a few feet in front of the performers. With a few issues with feedback but manageable. My specific questions:

a) best way to deal with condenser mics. Are there any tips on the tonematch for the small condensers?

b) On one occasion, I tried an Audio Technica AT 4040 for group vocals and it was disastrous for feedback. Yes, the two performers sitting in front of it sat back more than 2 feet away, but what are some basic tips? I feel like I am totally lost with these. They sound awesome in the large shrine with an installed PA system but my first trial with the L1's was a disaster. Don't want to give up.

Just to clarify I am using just one L1 to connect all of these mics through the T8S. Am I pushing it too much? Needless to add, my budget does not allow adding more L1's:-(

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. 

 

 

Original Post

Hi ICMlover,

Thank you for joining the Bose Portable PA Community.  Thanks for using the Sketcher. Here is your Sketch. I swapped in an L1® Model II and T8S.

In your Sketch, is the audience above or below the picture?

What does this represent?

Thanks,

ST

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Hi ICMlover,

There are some tips in the article about Microphone Feedback that should help. Things that come to mind.

The singers must use close-microphone technique (lips brushing the windscreen).

The instrument microphones must be as close as possible to the instruments.

Use proper gain staging for each individual microphone. The video below shows a T1, but the principles are the same. Note: The T8S trim lights show only green or red (no yellow).  If you see red on the trim lights, turn down the trim.

Use the T8S Gate function to shut down the microphones automatically when they are not being used. The video shows a T1 but the principles are the same.

For the AKG C1000 use the PPC1000 Polar pattern converter

How large is the audience area?

What are people in the audience doing while you are performing?

ST

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Thanks for the tips. Audience is mostly quiet (good listeners:-)).

As to singers getting close to mic, most do, but it is often out-of-my-control. The lead vocalist moves the head back and forth; it is part of the way classical vocal music works and it is out-of-my-control. 

The tabla artiste needs room to move his hands up and down, thereby mic cannot get too close (no closer than 4" or so); 

I do use the PPC1000 and yes, it is a god-send. BTW, some of the maestros of Tabla carry their own personal AKG C1000 with them. I mentioned this attachment for feedback rejection; they appreciated that. For those managing audio on Tabla, the C1000 sounds fantastic. 

Should I be placing the L1 stage right instead? The Tabla (or Mrdangam) microphones are often the culprit, as I've seen it. So, getting the L1's to the other side of stage may help? 

Also, should I be adding more separation(distance) between the performers and the L1? 

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

 

 

 

Hi ICMlover,

ICMlover posted:

Thanks for the tips. Audience is mostly quiet (good listeners:-)).

As to singers getting close to mic, most do, but it is often out-of-my-control. The lead vocalist moves the head back and forth; it is part of the way classical vocal music works and it is out-of-my-control. 

I would try using a uni-directional head-worn microphone.



The tabla artiste needs room to move his hands up and down, thereby mic cannot get too close (no closer than 4" or so); 

Can you try a different position (from the side instead of above the Tabla).



I do use the PPC1000 and yes, it is a god-send. BTW, some of the maestros of Tabla carry their own personal AKG C1000 with them. I mentioned this attachment for feedback rejection; they appreciated that. For those managing audio on Tabla, the C1000 sounds fantastic. 

Should I be placing the L1 stage right instead? The Tabla (or Mrdangam) microphones are often the culprit, as I've seen it. So, getting the L1's to the other side of stage may help? 

You can try moving the L1®. Look at the angle of the Tabla microphone. Imagine that the microphone is a laser-light bouncing (reflecting) off hard surfaces. Is that light hitting the L1®? If so, change the angle of the microphone or move the L1®.

Also, should I be adding more separation(distance) between the performers and the L1? 

That could help.



Thanks for the quick reply.

ST

My band often plays pretty loud through an L1s under two 10 by 10' canopies at the top of a hill above a large Farmer's Market and (unfortunately) two of my band mates are addicted to the effects in their TC vocal vocal doubler boxes...lots of feedback inducing high frequency in the effects.

There's not enough room behind us so we have to have it next to us.

I've finally found some success in placing the Bose to the right and ahead of us with the sub as far as possible from the stage to the right of the base unit.

The good news is that once you get used to the sound coming from the side (I'm the furthest away from the PA) it works pretty well.

Another issue we had is that we had to use extension cords to get power from about 100 yards away and the Bose would act funny - start out muffled and lower volume than normal and then suddenly operate at normal volume and eq (causing feedback at the change) so we'd have to dive for the master fader on our mixer!  We were sweating this out since there is NO BOSE REPAIR anymore within 2900 miles of us.

We found a closer A/C source and are using very heavy duty extension cords and the problem went away.  I've seen other comments that indicate that these guys don't like large voltage drops below a nominal 115-120volts.

Thanks for the tips. I especially am anxious to move the L1 tower a bit further away from the stage and the B2 sub even further away. As to power quality, I bought a power conditioner along with the L1; Will carry a heavy duty extension cord(haven't needed one since I'm setting up indoors).

Thanks again!

I have mixed numerous shows with the exact instrumentation you mentioned, as well as some "hybrid" setups (tabla drums, cajon, djembe, hand percussion, acoustic-electric guitar, electric bass, harmonium, woodwinds, and in one case a traditional drumset.) I placed a single L1 MII tower with two B2s about 4-6 ft behind the band.

I have never used a ToneMatch mixer, but generally speaking I would avoid condenser mics in close proximity to the L1 array, especially the C1000. You'll be much better off if you stick with cardioid or hyper-cardioid mics like SM57s and SM58s.

Good luck on your future shows!

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