How to route L1 to a house PA

Tonight I had my trusty Bose setup for vocal and piano.. the manager requested the music be "piped into" their hoise system. 

I had no idea how to route our sound to the house system - the place we played had multiple rooms and on 2 floors at least. So the issue is not about comparing Bose quality with unknown PA brands/ quality. But rather a practical matter. 

Are there multiple ways to connect? Please ennumerate the ways.. and any advantages of one way over another. 

I have the tone match as well.

Happy New Year.

Original Post

Hi John,

Great question.

johnjohnjohn posted:

Tonight I had my trusty Bose setup for vocal and piano.. the manager requested the music be "piped into" their hoise system. 

I had no idea how to route our sound to the house system 

Are there multiple ways?

I have the tone match as well.

Happy New Year.

If you are connecting your T1® to a Model 1S or Model II using the ToneMatch cable, then you can run line from the T1® Master Output to a house system.

Does that help?

ST

I did not attempt the connections, but the vocalist used two 1/4 inch cables into a direct box... I cannot give better details... and the sound did NOT transfer to the House.

Kind of an educated guess, based on my glancing at the ToneMatch   he plugged one of the 1/4 inch into Master Output and the second quarter inchm adjacent to it.  Could that second input somehow cancel the sound?

I do not even know what that 2nd input ( the adjacent one-- the one next to the Master Output ) functions as?

The other variable is the direct box. 

Personally I thought a single cable was sufficient for House sound.. but this whole area is outside my knowledge area. I know the functions within the ToneMatch are mostly unknown to me. Might one or more of the settings be cancelling the sound? The above vocalist ( bandleader ) playing with some settings in the Tone Match possibly explain the lack of sound transference? Or the second cable somehow cancel it?

Thank you for fast response 

 

Hi John,

johnjohnjohn posted:

I did not attempt the connections, but the vocalist used two 1/4 inch cables into a direct box... I cannot give better details... and the sound did NOT transfer to the House.

Kind of an educated guess, based on my glancing at the ToneMatch   he plugged one of the 1/4 inch into Master Output and the second quarter inchm adjacent to it.  Could that second input somehow cancel the sound?

It's pretty hard to speculate about what might have happened (or didn't happen) here. There are five analog outputs on the back of the T1®. 

The only one that is almost certain to have worked in this setting was the T1® Master Output. 

I do not even know what that 2nd input ( the adjacent one-- the one next to the Master Output ) functions as?

This is the T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Aux Output


Please click the picture for more details.  
 

The other variable is the direct box. 

Personally I thought a single cable was sufficient for House sound.. but this whole area is outside my knowledge area. I know the functions within the ToneMatch are mostly unknown to me. Might one or more of the settings be cancelling the sound?

Unlikely.

The above vocalist ( bandleader ) playing with some settings in the Tone Match possibly explain the lack of sound transference?

Unlikely.

Or the second cable somehow cancel it?

This is very hard to know without knowing the how the DI was wired, and exactly how it was connected.

Thank you for fast response 

A single connection to the T1® Master Output should have worked, but only if DI was wired to accept a balanced input, or you used an unbalanced cable.

At this point, it sounds like we cannot know what actually happened.

ST



PS

Here are some notes: Balanced and Unbalanced Connections

Having a similar problem. I have to run the Tonematch to the house system via 2 XLR inputs near the stage, but I want to use my L1 Model II as my monitor.

Last week I set up the system as usual and ran a 1/4" cable out of the Master output with a XLR splitter into the 2 inputs for the house. There was no sound coming out to the house. I then tried the Aux output with the same result.

Do I need a power supply for the Tonematch to boost the signal to the house?  And if so, do I then run a 1/4" cable from the Master to the Aux input on the L1 system base?

Thanks for any help.

Hi JustAcoustic,

I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. Let's figure this out.

What works

If you need to connect your T1® to an external system that requires an XLR input:

Run a line from the T1® Master Output to the input of the external system.

Use a 1/4" Tip-Ring-Sleeve to XLR cable or adapter.

14trsxlrmale

What didn't work

justacoustic posted:

Having a similar problem. I have to run the Tonematch to the house system via 2 XLR inputs near the stage, but I want to use my L1 Model II as my monitor.

I like to use my Model II on stage with me as my monitor too. That makes sense. Why do you need to send the signal out to two XLR inputs?  

Last week I set up the system as usual and ran a 1/4" cable out of the Master output with a XLR splitter into the 2 inputs for the house. There was no sound coming out to the house. I then tried the Aux output with the same result.

Splitters can cause trouble and that trouble can be hard to diagnose because we don't know how the splitter is wired. It's hard to know how they are wired without opening them up to look or using a continuity tester.

If possible I avoid splitters unless I know exactly how they are wired.

Do I need a power supply for the Tonematch to boost the signal to the house?

No. And there's no way to attach the T1 Power Supply if you connect the T1® to the Model II Power Stand using the ToneMatch cable (the preferred method).

And if so, do I then run a 1/4" cable from the Master to the Aux input on the L1 system base?

No.

Thanks for any help.

Getting to the heart of things...

A single 1/4" Tip-Ring-Sleeve to XLR cable from the T1® Master Output should have given you a duplicate of the signal being sent to the L1® Model II. 

14trsxlrmale

Using a splitter of any kind would lower the signal output and could have reversed the polarity of the signals. If that happened, then you would get very little output or none.

Let's get back to this: Why do you need to send the signal out to two XLR inputs? If we can understand this, maybe we can figure out how to meet the need.



ST

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Thanks ST.

The reason I need 2 xlrs is that there is a box by the stage that contains 2 xlr inputs (no mixer just a small box) and those get fed to the house system somewhere. It is a big resort and i guess one side goes to speakers around the bar and beach area and the other side goes to speakers around the rest of the property. See attached photo. 

Thanks

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Photos (1)

Hi JustAcoustic,

Thanks for the picture.

I'd check with the venue to see if it's absolutely necessary to connect to both channels. In a big resort, I would expect that they can handle routing to different areas from the console at the other end of the connections.

It looks like this is to facilitate two inputs (e.g. two microphones).  If that's the case, then you only need to connect to one and then you don't need a splitter.

ST

Hi ST and JustAcoustic,

Looking at the picture supplied by JustAcoustic, the "stage box" appears to be a "RAD3" (Remote Audio Device) wall jack by Rane.  It is an analog-to-digital converter to send audio signals digitally back to a central audio distribution system (their "HAL" system.)   It is designed for paging and distributed audio in large facilities (like resort hotels and conference centers.)

I'd check with the venue to see if it's absolutely necessary to connect to both channels. In a big resort, I would expect that they can handle routing to different areas from the console at the other end of the connections.

According to Rane's description, ST's assumption seems valid, and you shouldn't have to connect to both.  (I'm guessing the reason for two connections is to accommodate left and right signals from a stereo mixer?)

Also according to the description, it should have worked with the 1/4" TRS to XLR cable that ST described from the ToneMatch to the right-hand (line input) connection on the RAD3.  From that point it seems either the RAD3 wasn't working, or the venue didn't know how to activate it or route the signal through their equipment correctly.  All speculation on my part!

Fish

 

Thanks Fish

"According to Rane's description, ST's assumption seems valid, and you shouldn't have to connect to both. (I'm guessing the reason for two connections is to accommodate left and right signals from a stereo mixer?)"

Yes. I thiink so too. Because this worked last week. (See pics) I sent my Vocals, Guitar and Mp3 player from T1 Channels Line Out to Mixer, then Mixer LR Outs to XLR Box. But Jeez! Look at how I much I had to crank the mixer

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Hi JustAcoustic,

Yep, I think we're on the right track.  A couple of things to try -- run from the T1 Master Out directly to the wall jack, bypassing the mixer.  If that's still not enough oomph, try using the T1's Aux Out instead of the Master Out and set each channel's Aux Level settings higher.

If they still want both channels connected, run from the T1 Master Out (or Aux Out if you prefer) to channel 1 on the mixer -- that should push a hotter signal into the Mackie, which (hopefully) will translate to a hotter signal to the wall box.  (The RAD3 wall box accepts line-level signals, which should be fine with main outs on the Mackie 402VLZ4.)  With so much gain, though, you may have to watch for clipping.

Good luck!

Ok. A little unconventional but here's what worked. I needed to plug into both  XLR inputs for the house. One side feeds the bar area and one side feeds the dining/beach area. (See pics of stage, bar and dining area.) So I ran the Master out to one, and the Aux out to the other one. Still got very low volume even with the Aux turned up to 100%. So the manager boosted the volume on the house system and we were good to go, even tho he had to boost the house to 90%. I think the T1 just can't handle this particular situation on its own. Thanks for all the help tho. I really appreciate the support. 

Until the next question!!

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After comparing the pictures of your venue with the view out my front window, I may have to come help you test some more connection options in person -- maybe a week or two of testing!  

Glad you were able to work with the manager and get things to an acceptable level.  Thanks for posting your results!

Fish

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