Help using B1-s with conventional speaker system

I won't get into the "whys" of why I want to do this; I have a pair of powered conventional speakers on stands that work well for me. These are two way speakers with a single 15 and a horn. I also have a first generation Bose Model L1 with two B1 subs. I use my conventional speakers at a regular weekend gig where no gear tear down is necessary, everthing stays there; I use the Bose for other gigs elsewhere during the week as it's more portable obviously. In my specific application, I'm a solo guitarist, but I pump a full menu of self created MIDI sequences for backup, to include drums, bass and everything. With my conventional speakers however, I do miss the bottom end "kick" of the B1-s when using my conventional speakers. Is there any way I could utilize the B1-s with my conventional speakers without having to set up the entire powerstand, stick etc? If it will help in your answer, my mixer, a Mackie does have a "sub out" jack. I was wondering if I could run a line from that "out" to maybe an input on the powerstand and just use the powerstand to power the subs. My second idea which would be my preference simply because it would be much more portable would be to purchase a Packlight amp to power the B-1's pulling a "sub" signal from my Mackie mixer. I don't want to damage the B1's by overloading it with too deep of a frequency, but wonder if I could make either idea work? Thanks for any help you can give me.
Original Post
Hi LG,

Yes, you can use the L1 Model I (or Classic) Power Stand to run the B1s. It is completely okay to run the Model I (or Classic) Power Stand without the Cylindrical Radiator®s.

You should be able to take the sub-out from the Mackie to Power Stand Channel 1 or Channel 2. I would try Preset 00.

If you use Channels 1,2 (or 3,4 for that matter) the Power Stand will NOT send any signal below the frequencies that the B1s were designed to handle. That is, it protects the B1s by sending only frequencies above 40Hz.

There is another option to use the Power Stand "All Amps In" but there is NO protection for the B1s if you do that.

You could also use the A1 PackLite® amp, but there is nothing in the PackLite® that will protect B1s from frequencies below the recommended frequencies. So while the PackLite® is lighter and more convenient than the Power Stand, I would try using the Power Stand before spending any money. This will give you a chance to hear the B1s with your powered speakers and figure out if you like the result.

Can you set the Mackie sub-out so that it does NOT send signal below 40 Hz? (You need a high pass filter set at 40 Hz or higher). If so, then you could use a PackLite®

Does that help?
hI.
Thanks for the info. I don't think my Mackie has a frequency adjustment for the crossover frequency. However, I"ll look in the manual to see where it's set at as is. If I'd be lucky enough for it to be within parameters, I'd be ok, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. First, I'll try the powerstand approach. Thanks again for your help.

quote:
Hi LG,

Yes, you can use the L1 Model I (or Classic) Power Stand to run the B1s. It is completely okay to run the Model I (or Classic) Power Stand without the Cylindrical Radiator®s.

You should be able to take the sub-out from the Mackie to Power Stand Channel 1 or Channel 2. I would try Preset 00.

If you use Channels 1,2 (or 3,4 for that matter) the Power Stand will NOT send any signal below the frequencies that the B1s were designed to handle. That is, it protects the B1s by sending only frequencies above 40Hz.

There is another option to use the Power Stand "All Amps In" but there is NO protection for the B1s if you do that.

You could also use the A1 PackLite® amp, but there is nothing in the PackLite® that will protect B1s from frequencies below the recommended frequencies. So while the PackLite® is lighter and more convenient than the Power Stand, I would try using the Power Stand before spending any money. This will give you a chance to hear the B1s with your powered speakers and figure out if you like the result.

Can you set the Mackie sub-out so that it does NOT send signal below 40 Hz? (You need a high pass filter set at 40 Hz or higher). If so, then you could use a PackLite®

Does that help?
One more question...if I'm using the powerstand to power the subs and it already does the job of separating the proper frequencies it feeds to the B1-s, then, maybe I don't even need to use the "sub out" jack from my mixer. Would I get the same result by using a normal "out" that would go to mains speakers? Just curious.
Hi LG

quote:
Originally posted by sologigger:
One more question...if I'm using the powerstand to power the subs and it already does the job of separating the proper frequencies it feeds to the B1-s, then, maybe I don't even need to use the "sub out" jack from my mixer. Would I get the same result by using a normal "out" that would go to mains speakers? Just curious.


You should be able to use the a full-range output from the mixer if you have one available. I just figured that if you were already running two powered loudspeakers from your Mackie board, you might not have another full-range output.

The B1s are going to get sound in the 40-180 Hz range through the Power Stand.

You can try it both ways: through the sub-out and one of the normal-outs. Whether or not you hear much difference will probably depend on the what is coming through the sub-out. (high-pass, band-pass, low-pass).

Let your ears tell you what works best. It will likely be faster to do that than dig into the specs and speculate. You'll have to do a listening test anyway.

Please be aware that where you place the B1s will also have some impact on what you hear. You might want to check out this article by Chris-at-Bose

B1 Bass Module Positioning
solo,

I agree with ST - let your ears tell you what works best. Either scenarion, as long as you feed into Channel 1, 2, 3, or 4 will not harm the B1's.

FWIW, my money would be on the 'sub out' from your Mackies sounding the best. Usually, conventional systems are going to cross over much lower than the 180Hz (or 200 for the model II) the L1 family crosses over at.

If you rely solely on the L1's crossover and use a full range out from your mixer, you will probably have extra 100-180Hz.

But as I said at the top, there's no way to know which will sound better until you try it :-)

Mike
I'm back with some more information on my Mackie mixer. I got to the gig and checked the sub output. On the mixer by the output, it is marked "75 HZ". Pardon my illiteracy on this whole issue...but in your first reply to my original posting, you said the powerstand will not send a signal to the sub below 40 HZ. So, I'm assuming with my Mackie mixer labelled 75 hz, that I'd be well within parameters to feed this to a packlight amp if I so chose to go that route at some point in the future, correct? Thanks again. LG
Hi again LG,

I did some digging on the Mackie site and for the Mackie CFX series of mixers this is what the sub-woofer output does.

From page 9 of the manual...

--== click the picture to see it in context ==--

This is described as a low pass filter. So it allows frequencies below 75 Hz to pass through to this output. BUT there is no mention of any limit on the frequencies. That is - there is nothing mentioned about preventing frequencies below any particular threshold.

Ideally, for the B1s you want to prevent anything below 40 Hz. It doesn't appear that the sub-woofer output on this series of mixers will do that for you.

What model is your mixer?
Ah....it's back at the club but you've already done the "footwork" for me. It is in fact a CFX 12. And also, have brought up another issue I'd thought of; that being, what would prevent anything below 40 Hz being fed to the B1's, unless it was built into the system. I think I'll play it safe and try the powerstand approach. Thanks again for all the info.
LG,

Happy to hear you are going with the powerstand approach. I know it's one more thing to lug, but its the only way to ensure your B1's are protected.

Loudspeakers designed to be used with other gear (typical 2 way PA speakers, third party subs, etc.) usually have some sort of passive protection built into them. The B1, since it was designed to be used with L1's, has no protection. All of the protection is built into the L1 itself.

That being said, the B1 can take a lot of punishment before having an issue, but running frequencies either too high, or too low through a loudspeaker really puts it under stress.

Good luck,
Mike
I was thinking of doing the same thing as this other person. I like the sound of conventional speakers on the top. However I am getting tired of carrying the Mackie 18" bottoms and the Mackie 3 ways. So I scaled down to the eon's ugggg. But I need some low end. Looking for the small footprint. Its a 5 piece band with acoustic drums. Just purchased the version 2 Yamaha ProMix. Can you just add a seperate crossover to protect the B1's as well?? Do you think two B1's per side would be enough.

Thx
Mark
Hi Mark,

quote:
Originally posted by thepanacheband:
I was thinking of doing the same thing as this other person. I like the sound of conventional speakers on the top. However I am getting tired of carrying the Mackie 18" bottoms and the Mackie 3 ways. So I scaled down to the eon's ugggg. But I need some low end. Looking for the small footprint. Its a 5 piece band with acoustic drums. Just purchased the version 2 Yamaha ProMix. Can you just add a seperate crossover to protect the B1's as well?? Do you think two B1's per side would be enough.

Thx
Mark


I don't know the answer to your question but I can give you a little more information.

The B1s are designed to handle 125 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms.

You can try asking in the Ask Bose For Help forum (answers are from Bose Technicians).

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