Are any of you vocalists using an external microphone preamp (tube or non-tube) for live applications?

If so, could you please explain to me what you gain by doing so?

Also, what type & brand have you had success with?

Thanks for your assistance.

Jab
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jabber53:
Are any of you vocalists using an external microphone preamp (tube or non-tube) for live applications?


Just a clarification. The above question should read Do any of you vocalists connect a mic preamp before going into the PAS?

I thought I read of some vocalists utilizing a mic preamp with the PAS and wanted to get some input as to whether or not I would gain anything by using one myself.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jab
The PS1 has a very decent pre-amp build in (for Channels 1 and 2). We did some evaluations against a wide variety of commercial pre-amps and were very happy with the results, so it's not clear to me what you would gain or what you are looking for.
Do you have any indication that another pre-amp would do better ?

Hilmar
quote:
Originally posted by Hilmar-at-Bose:
The PS1 has a very decent pre-amp build in (for Channels 1 and 2). We did some evaluations against a wide variety of commercial pre-amps and were very happy with the results, so it's not clear to me what you would gain or what you are looking for.
Do you have any indication that another pre-amp would do better ?

Hilmar


I agree that the preamps on 1/2 are great.

I believe that I read in a couple Bose Message Board posts that some PAS users were using outboard tube preamps to "warm up" either their vocals or acoustic instruments.

I had noticed that on my previous sound setup which consisted of a Mackie mixer and 2 SRM450's that when I added an outboard tube preamp to my vocals it really added a nice microphone sensitivity which picked up alot of the intimate nuances that previously were missing.

I would do an A/B comparison but I have since sold my ART MP Studio tube preamp (and just about everything else in my old setup) so I was wondering if any PAS owners are using an outboard preamp on vocals or if they had experimented with using one. By the number of responses Smile to this topic it just may be that no one feels the need to use one which is a great thing !!!!

I hope that clarifies my original inquiry.

Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by Jabber53:
[QUOTE]
I believe that I read in a couple Bose Message Board posts that some PAS users were using outboard tube preamps to "warm up" either their vocals or acoustic instruments...

I had noticed that on my previous sound setup which consisted of a Mackie mixer and 2 SRM450's that when I added an outboard tube preamp to my vocals it really added a nice microphone sensitivity which picked up alot of the intimate nuances that previously were missing.

I would do an A/B comparison but I have since sold my ART MP Studio tube preamp...


Jabber,

I'm quite positive that the PAS pre's will way outperform an ART. As a recording engineer AND a tube freak (refuse to use anything but tube amps for my guitars, anyhow!), trust me when I say that there are no magical properties about a tube that make a preamp "warmer." A lot of manufacturers will simply stick a tube in something as a marketing ploy - "Hey, it's a tube! It'll sound better!" - even if the design and build quality of the entire circuit is suspect. A very well designed and built solid state pre is always going to sound much better - and even much "warmer" Wink - than a cheap tube pre. Not that I've never found ART pre's useful for anything, they can be an interesting "flavor" - but very high fidelity they ain't.

Now if you want to talk about a $2000 tube pre vs. those in the PAS, then you might be onto something. But I doubt you want to take a $2000 pre on the road with you. Smile And really, as far as the mic sensitivity issue, the pre's on the PAS have VERY good sensitivity, and do an excellent job of picking up nuances. They're MUCH better than the Mackie pre's that way.

If you DO end up doing any experiments with other mic pres, another thing to keep in mind is that even if you keep the trim on the PAS all the way down, you'll still be going through its preamp, which means you're passing through two preamps. That usually does nothing but muddle up the sound, plus you aren't really hearing your external pre, it's still being "colored" by the PAS pre as well. The only way to by pass the PAS's pres is by using the inserts on channel 1 or 2 rather than the inputs. So don't forget to do that if you do use any other pres.

But I wouldn't bother too much about it. You'll do better to experiment with different mics using the PAS pre's, as well as different presets/EQ settings, and keep the chain as simple as possible.

What The...?
http://www.what-the.com
quote:
Originally posted by Lee Flier:
But I wouldn't bother too much about it. You'll do better to experiment with different mics using the PAS pre's, as well as different presets/EQ settings, and keep the chain as simple as possible.


Well said Lee !!! That answers my question. I'm not even going to mess around or even think about it any further. KISS !

I think I just need to turn up the vocal channel's preamp trim more than where I currently have it set. I'm not sensing that my mic is as sensitive as what I've been used to.

While singing, turn up the trim until the SIG/OL light turns red correct? Then the same with the remote.

Thanks again Lee for your input! I've enjoyed your posts throughout the Message Boards.
quote:
Originally posted by Jabber53:

I think I just need to turn up the vocal channel's preamp trim more than where I currently have it set. I'm not sensing that my mic is as sensitive as what I've been used to.

While singing, turn up the trim until the SIG/OL light turns red correct? Then the same with the remote.[/qb]


Yes. Actually I've found it tough to get the light to even turn red on vocals. But the trim on the PS1 is indeed the preamp trim, and the most sensitive stage of amplification, so you want to make sure you get that pretty hot. Then do the same with the remote channel level, and finally turn up the master on the remote to get the volume you want. I found though that I had to tweak the trim a bit while singing into it to find the optimum level, because like I said, the thing has quite a bit of headroom and it's hard to actually get it to clip, at least at normal singing levels. Unless you're our drummer, who has a really loud voice! Big Grin

Anyhow, I'm glad someone else appreciates the value of simplicity. Smile

What The...?
http://www.what-the.com
Just a little tip: The LED on the power stand and on the remote are calibrated, if nothing is connected to the insert loop.
The LEDs are in sync when the channel volume on the remote is at 12 o'clock.
Occasional red is fine, since you still have reasonable head room from the point where either LED turns red to when something really bad happens.
Hilmar
quote:
Originally posted by Jabber53:
[Bold]I think I just need to turn up the vocal channel's preamp trim more than where I currently have it set.[/BOLD] I'm not sensing that my mic is as sensitive as what I've been used to.


This is definitely what needed to be done. My microphone definitely seems as sensitive as it was before PAS, possibly even more so.

I had back to back gigs this past weekend and as I was basking in the sound of my own guitar and vocals during the 2nd night, my mind quickly shot back to this forum and I thought to myself "Damn I sound great!!! I have never heard my own voice sound so pleasing..." and I confidently knew that the audience was hearing exactly what I was hearing.

It took me 2 gigs and some home tweaking until I finally dialed in "my sound". Thanks Bose, I'm HOME !!!!!
What an incredible story. Reminds me of what my Dad said once: when you stop trying to fall in love so hard, and forget about it, you'll fall in love. (Hope this relate isn't too much of a stretch.)

Man, it's AWESOME to hear folks like you break through like this. There is simply no going back. I know the feeling. Play on, bro'.

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