L1 Model II

Let's talk about the L1® Portable Line Array Systems

Using proprietary Bose® technology, L1 systems combine  PA and monitors into a single, highly portable unit. The  loudspeaker can be positioned behind or to the side —and you hear what the audience hears.

Highly portable PA and monitor combined for solo performers, DJs and general-purpose use. Fixed vertical control with 180° horizontal coverage Reduced vulnerability to feedback.

Three systems to choose from (Compact, Model 1S, Model II)
Two passive bass module options (B1 or B2)
Consistent coverage and tonal balance, portability and easy setup.

Hi - I hope you can help. I connected my Bose L1 Model 2 to a Mackie CFX 12 mixing desk last night as I needed 5 vocal mics and keys to go through the mixer.  I used a cable I had made up which is a XLR left and right main outputs from the mixer to the 1/4 inch jack on the power stand.  I have done this before many times and it has all worked great but last night the vocal and keyboard cut out for a few seconds.  This kept happening all through our first set every few minutes.  It only cut out for a few seconds then came back.  I also had some feedback from the PA which is very rare. Fortunately I had the Tone Match mixer with me as a back up.  Do you have any ideas why this could have happened?   Once I swapped mixers the PA all worked fine although I was seriously short of channels!  The Mackie mixer all seems in perfect working order too.  I can only think that the L1 couldn't cope with what the mixer was sending to it and so cut out. Any help much appreciated.

Original Post
Sandra posted:

Hi - I hope you can help. I connected my Bose L1 Model 2 to a Mackie CFX 12 mixing desk last night as I needed 5 vocal mics and keys to go through the mixer.  I used a cable I had made up which is a XLR left and right main outputs from the mixer to the 1/4 inch jack on the power stand.  I have done this before many times and it has all worked great but last night the vocal and keyboard cut out for a few seconds.  This kept happening all through our first set every few minutes.  It only cut out for a few seconds then came back.  I also had some feedback from the PA which is very rare. Fortunately I had the Tone Match mixer with me as a back up.  Do you have any ideas why this could have happened?   Once I swapped mixers the PA all worked fine although I was seriously short of channels!  The Mackie mixer all seems in perfect working order too.  I can only think that the L1 couldn't cope with what the mixer was sending to it and so cut out. Any help much appreciated.

Same cables for both scenarios?

I apologize if this is obvious  I don't have any experience with Bose Mixers.

No.  The ToneMatch uses a different cable into the power stand which only works with Bose.  The trim/clip was lit up on the power stand when I connected the Mackie to the power stand but not lit when using the ToneMatch mixer.  It stayed on green though.

This sounds like a cable problem. The L1 is only mono, so I would try panning all your mixer channels to either to extreme L or R, then take a single cable from whichever L or R you chose into the L1. You’ll need a special XLR to 1/4” TRS cable for that. Taking both L and R from the Mackie isn’t buying you anything. It just complicates your connection.

Sandra posted:

No.  The ToneMatch uses a different cable into the power stand which only works with Bose.  The trim/clip was lit up on the power stand when I connected the Mackie to the power stand but not lit when using the ToneMatch mixer.  It stayed on green though.

So, based on that there are really only a few possibilities.

1) There is a problem with the cables you made.

2) There is a problem with the Mackie Mixer.

3) Since the input to the L1 is clipping with the Mackie Mixer there could be an issue with your gain chain causing the L1 to go into protection mode.  IMO, this seems to be the most likely cause.

CityFolk posted:

This sounds like a cable problem. The L1 is only mono, so I would try panning all your mixer channels to either to extreme L or R, then take a single cable from whichever L or R you chose into the L1. You’ll need a special XLR to 1/4” TRS cable for that. Taking both L and R from the Mackie isn’t buying you anything. It just complicates your connection.

Thank you. I'll get an XLR to 1/4" TRS and try that.  I might also try the jack output on the Mackie.  It was all so very stressful!

Daniel Proctor posted:
Sandra posted:

No.  The ToneMatch uses a different cable into the power stand which only works with Bose.  The trim/clip was lit up on the power stand when I connected the Mackie to the power stand but not lit when using the ToneMatch mixer.  It stayed on green though.

So, based on that there are really only a few possibilities.

1) There is a problem with the cables you made.

2) There is a problem with the Mackie Mixer.

3) Since the input to the L1 is clipping with the Mackie Mixer there could be an issue with your gain chain causing the L1 to go into protection mode.  IMO, this seems to be the most likely cause.

Thank you.  I will try different cables first.  Do you mean I had the gains too high on the Mackie mixer?  Nothing went into the red but the sound was weird and not very powerful.

Once you try the different cable connection, also look to the gain staging of the mackie to L1. I missed that part of your description and Daniel is correct that you may be over driving the L1. See this page for general info on gain staging.

I’d look into whether the 1/4” main out from the Mackie is TRS vs just TR. A XLR to TRS or TRS to TRS is preferable. It gives you a better quality signal and has the additional benefit of being able to run a longer cable length (greater than 20’) from the mixer to the L1. Of course, you may not need that extra length. I’ve tried both TR- TR and XLR-TRS main out connections from my 12 channel Yamaha mixer and I noticed a marked improvement with the XLR/TRS connection. 

S

Sandra posted:
Daniel Proctor posted:
Sandra posted:

No.  The ToneMatch uses a different cable into the power stand which only works with Bose.  The trim/clip was lit up on the power stand when I connected the Mackie to the power stand but not lit when using the ToneMatch mixer.  It stayed on green though.

So, based on that there are really only a few possibilities.

1) There is a problem with the cables you made.

2) There is a problem with the Mackie Mixer.

3) Since the input to the L1 is clipping with the Mackie Mixer there could be an issue with your gain chain causing the L1 to go into protection mode.  IMO, this seems to be the most likely cause.

Thank you.  I will try different cables first.  Do you mean I had the gains too high on the Mackie mixer?  Nothing went into the red but the sound was weird and not very powerful.

Since you were getting some yellow on the inputs of the L1 using the Mackie Mixer the gain was higher than with the Bose Mixer.

I agree with the other comment that it is probably the cables.  The other comment about using only one channel has a lot of merit as well since you really gain nothing using both outputs.

Hi Sandra,

How is your XLR Left+Right to TRS cable wired? If the +/- signal wires from left and right are hardwired together, you run the risk of damaging your mixer outputs as they will reverse drive into each other as the signal follows the lowest resistance path to ground. Properly combining left and right outputs into a single mono output requires a resistor network to accomplish properly and safely.

However, it sounds like your immediate issue is that you were definitely overdriving the analog L1 input and causing it to run into protect mode. 

I regularly use a Mackie ProFX8 mixer to feed a pair of L1 Compacts. Although I run in stereo, whereas you are running mono, the principles below are the same.

A few items of note:

  • The Tonematch input is completely separate from the Analog input, so you must adjust the analog input separately when using it with any external analog input (mixer, keyboard, guitar, bass, etc).
  • The Mackie CFX series does indeed have 1/4" main outputs that are compatible with both TR (unbalanced) or TRS (balanced) connections, so you can either use a TRS to TRS cable from the mixer to the L1 analog input, or use an XLR-F to TRS cable. Odds are you'll be able to find a longer XLR/TRS cable than a TRS/TRS cable, as TRS/TRS cables are generally used as shorter patch cables. The other nice thing is the XLR/TRS cable can be easily extended with a simple mic cable if you need more length.
  • When using external mixers, if they do not have a Mono output, just use the Left or Right main output. You *can* pan everything to that side, but if you typically have everything panned center it really doesn't matter either way as the signal goes to both sides equally anyway.
  • You should first set your mixer's basic levels for the proper output level indication with the L1's analog trim level all the way down, and then bring the L1's analog level up to the appropriate level, being careful not to clip the LED indication (which is specifically tied to the analog input level). One good way to do this is to play some break music through the Mackie to get a good reference level without peaking its meters. Once your Mackie mixer gain arrangement is good, then go through and set your vocal and instrument mix levels as needed and if they're not peaking the Mackie mixer then you shouldn't have to worry about them peaking the L1 .

 

Alternate idea: plug the Mackie Left and Right 1/4" inputs into the ToneMatch Mixer input 4/5. See the link below:

Connecting a third party mixer to your T1

Hope this helps,
Jeff

Jeff K posted:

Hi Sandra,

How is your XLR Left+Right to TRS cable wired? If the +/- signal wires from left and right are hardwired together, you run the risk of damaging your mixer outputs as they will reverse drive into each other as the signal follows the lowest resistance path to ground. Properly combining left and right outputs into a single mono output requires a resistor network to accomplish properly and safely.

However, it sounds like your immediate issue is that you were definitely overdriving the analog L1 input and causing it to run into protect mode. 

I regularly use a Mackie ProFX8 mixer to feed a pair of L1 Compacts. Although I run in stereo, whereas you are running mono, the principles below are the same.

A few items of note:

  • The Tonematch input is completely separate from the Analog input, so you must adjust the analog input separately when using it with any external analog input (mixer, keyboard, guitar, bass, etc).
  • The Mackie CFX series does indeed have 1/4" main outputs that are compatible with both TR (unbalanced) or TRS (balanced) connections, so you can either use a TRS to TRS cable from the mixer to the L1 analog input, or use an XLR-F to TRS cable. Odds are you'll be able to find a longer XLR/TRS cable than a TRS/TRS cable, as TRS/TRS cables are generally used as shorter patch cables. The other nice thing is the XLR/TRS cable can be easily extended with a simple mic cable if you need more length.
  • When using external mixers, if they do not have a Mono output, just use the Left or Right main output. You *can* pan everything to that side, but if you typically have everything panned center it really doesn't matter either way as the signal goes to both sides equally anyway.
  • You should first set your mixer's basic levels for the proper output level indication with the L1's analog trim level all the way down, and then bring the L1's analog level up to the appropriate level, being careful not to clip the LED indication (which is specifically tied to the analog input level). One good way to do this is to play some break music through the Mackie to get a good reference level without peaking its meters. Once your Mackie mixer gain arrangement is good, then go through and set your vocal and instrument mix levels as needed and if they're not peaking the Mackie mixer then you shouldn't have to worry about them peaking the L1 .

 

Alternate idea: plug the Mackie Left and Right 1/4" inputs into the ToneMatch Mixer input 4/5. See the link below:

Connecting a third party mixer to your T1

Hope this helps,
Jeff

Hi Jeff, thanks for your post.  My XLR are wired together with the jack the other end.  I had this made up.  Today I have bought an XLR to 1/4" TRS which I will try and am going to set everything up in my living room and see if anything cuts out.  The other thing I thought was that it was a marquee gig and the power was from a generator. I wondered if that had an impact. Thanks for taking the time to reply.  

Hi Sandra,

There are several things that might have contributed to the issues you experienced.

  • Inappropriate cable
    • It sounds like you have a new cable to try
    • Note: If you have just one XLR to 1/4" (6.3mm) Tip-Ring-Sleeve cable
      • Pan all your inputs hard LEFT
      • Connect the LEFT output to T1 channel 4 input
    • Be sure to check out the article Connecting a third party mixer to your T1 for tips on gain staging
Sandra posted:

Hi Jeff, thanks for your post.  My XLR are wired together with the jack the other end.  I had this made up.  Today I have bought an XLR to 1/4" TRS which I will try and am going to set everything up in my living room and see if anything cuts out.  The other thing I thought was that it was a marquee gig and the power was from a generator. I wondered if that had an impact. Thanks for taking the time to reply.  

Yes - inadequate power from a generator can also cause the system to cut-out briefly and resume.  However, you said that this problem stopped when you switched to the ToneMatch mixer alone.  It's difficult to diagnose power related problems with a generator without knowing more about the generator, and what else was connected to it.

ST

Hi Jeff and others Thank you so much for your help. Just thought I'd give you an update.  So I ran my new XLR cable from Mackie mixer to L1, a jack to jack aux out from mixer to L1 and the original L/R xlr to jack on L1 - all the same result with a strange sound from the speaker and not enough volume and the clip light coming on.  I then tried running the Tonematch into the L1 and the Mackie to the Tonematch - perfect with all three leads!  So, I'm thinking it must be a fault with the analogue input on the L1.  I don't want to use two mixers on gigs so where should I take my L1 to get that switch repaired please?  Alternatively, I could sell my Mackie and get the Bose 8 channel mixer but my colleagues tell me the Mackie mixer uses better components and has a better sound.  I love Bose and find it much easier to work than the Mackie so would like your opinions on that too!  

Sandra posted:

So I ran my new XLR cable from Mackie mixer to L1, a jack to jack aux out from mixer to L1 and the original L/R xlr to jack on L1 - all the same result with a strange sound from the speaker and not enough volume and the clip light coming on.  

Hi Sandra,

I'm a little fuzzy on your connections, are you saying that you tried the 3 following methods?:

  • Mackie Aux Send 1/4" jack to the 1/4" jack on the L1 with a 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TRS cable.
  • Mackie Main Left (or Right) XLR out to the 1/4" jack on the L1 with an XLR to 1/4" TRS cable.
  • Mackie Main Left AND Right XLR outs to the 1/4" jack on the L1  with the original dual XLR to 1/4" TRS cable.

And in all 3 cases, the 1/4" input on the L1 was clipping with low sound coming out?

If so, that does sound like there might be an issue with the input jack but you'd have to have someone look at it personally to be sure. You could take it to a local music store for a second set of hands-on (see if you can bring your whole setup to test, i.e. Mackie, tonematch and L1) and, if they come to the same conclusion, contact Bose's service center for a local support center:

Factory authorized service - Bose

(Note: I would go with a local Mom and Pop shop to check it out rather than something like Guitar Center, they'll typically be more knowledgeable).

Regarding the Mackie CFX vs the Bose Tonematch T8S, I do like Mackie (I have the ProFX8) but would take a T8S (or any other reputable digital console) over the CFX series any day of the week. Digital mixers just have so many more options than analog, other than being able to quickly grab an eq knob maybe. Some folks do prefer the sound of analog to digital, but generally they're professional level engineers that are referring to high end analog consoles from the likes of Midas, Neve and Allen & Heath, not Mackie, Peavey and Behringer. I run both analog and digital mixers from Peavey, Mackie, Allen and Heath and Yamaha, as well as Computer-based systems, and you can get both to sound very good these days as long as it's quality equipment, so it's more down to features and capability.

That said, if you pretty much stay to one type of reverb and eq settings during a gig, there's nothing wrong with staying with your Mackie CFX (assuming *it's* not the problem), but if you do various EQ and effects types from song to song, like from rockabilly with slap-back echo and small room reverb to ballad type stuff with large reverb, dynamic delays and such, having any digital mixer with scenes saved for song types (or even particular songs) and more effects types and combinations available to you could be a big advantage.

Hope this helps,

Jeff

Hi Sandra,

Try connecting to the T1 input 4/5 using the same cables you used when connecting to the power stand. If that works,  the cables  are fine and you have an issue with the input jack on the power stand.

 if you have the same problem with the sound as when you connect directly to the power stand, then the issue is with the cables.

ST

.

Hi Jeff, yes that's exactly what I did, ran all three cable options and got the same result.  I am pretty sure it's the analogue input so I'm going to call Bose on Monday. (I'm in the UK and local music shop referred me to Bose as they won't touch it).  Thanks for your opinion on the Bose T8S mixer - I would much prefer to use the Bose as I find the Mackie so confusing to use so I might be having a big spend up!! You've just convinced me.  

This forum is fab.  Thanks so much for your help.  Sandra

Hi Jeff, sorry to bother you again. Just thought of another possible problem. If I buy the Bose T8S mixer, will I be able to connect this to my old Mackie SRM350 speakers should I need to?  (This is why I kept my Mackie CFX12 mixer in the first place).  If so, how would I do this?  Sorry for all the questions, I am a pianist and am a bit dumb when it comes to all this gear!

Hi ST - Brilliant thank you.  And if I were using the 4 channel Bose mixer would I use the Master out and Aux out jack socket and run to each Mackie speaker or Master out to one Mackie and daisy chain that speaker to the other?  

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me.  Sandra 

Hi Sandra,

Sandra posted:

Hi ST - Brilliant thank you.  And if I were using the 4 channel Bose mixer would I use the Master out and Aux out jack socket and run to each Mackie speaker

Nope, Master and Aux are not identical; close but not identical because there's no reverb available on Aux.

T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Aux Output
--∈∞ΘΞ Please click the picture for more details ΞΘ∞∋--    

 And it's not easy to adjust the output volume on Aux (there's no physical knob to turn).

or Master out to one Mackie and daisy chain that speaker to the other?  

Yes - do this ↑↑↑↑



Thanks so much for taking the time to help me.  Sandra 

Sure! Happy to help.

ST

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