I've tried finding a good, small, simple Crossover that could be used in front of the B1s.
Found a couple of raw, circuit board types that had to be hardwired, but never found anything to my liking.
So I've given up on the idea.

I've gone with scaling the gig gear to the instruments involved.
Full band, two or three Model IIs with B1s.
Duos, and open mic gigs, two compacts and a T1, but no mic'ing the kick drum.
This forced me to modify the kick, and tune my drums a little better.
It's working out.

I see you use a single Model 1 typically.
How often do you do DJ gigs with your Compact(s)?
Hi Roy,


It looks like that might work.

Notes from the Rolls SX21 Manual







Do you have ANYTHING with a crossover that you could try before spending the money on this?


I've got at least three half-octave graphic equalizers sitting in storage in my old gig rigs. Do you have anything like that lying around that you could try?
Hey Roy, good digging.
I found nothing like this in my searches at the time this thread started.
All I could find where circuit board type crossovers, not road worthy.

I have a Rolls headphone amp, and it's reasonably good (not top) quality.
For $65 I'm very tempted to try it out.
I'm sure the only drawback to this will be that you don't have that built in Bose "shaping" of the EQ frequencies, that you get built into the L1 units prior to the bass out and B1 output.
I discovered this trying to use my Porchboard direct into the A1/B1 combo with and without the T1.
It did not sound as nicely shaped as running the Porchboard directly into the Model II power stand, and into a B1...no comparison, really.

If you are great with EQ, I'm sure it is no problem, but I'm just not that great.
Still, anything that will help,even a little, with the Porchboard, or bass drum, would be an improvement with the Compact.
Personally, I don't think the Compact lacks anything for vocals, guitars, or program music.
In my demoing experience though, keys could use a little added "richness", when compared to a big L1.
Or so the keyboard players felt...I thought the Compact did a great job, considering it's simplicity and ease.
Interesting note; I just got a call from Melissa @ tech support for Pro Acoustics USA (proacousticsusa.com), asking if I had any questions about my purchase of the SX21.
Obviously they are interested in how this is being used and if we had questions.
She said that they have had folks by a crossover not knowing what they were getting.

It's rare to find a supplier who has this kind of personal interaction, a good thing!
Hi Lou,

From the call I got from Pro Acoustics, it seems my unit just shipped, probably won't see it until later this week.

I have an outdoor gig that I was wanting to use 2 Compacts for, as I lost my van to a deer and can't haul much right now.
If it works out, I will bring 2 B1s to that one.

The ways I will test the SX21 at home is
1) taking the direct out of the Compact into the crossover, and then sending the Lo Out to the Packlite/2-B1,
2) Taking the T1 Main Out into the SX, splitting it there, sending the highs to the Compact and the lows to the B1s.

I'd prefer that option #1 work out, as that is the simplest.
Darn the timing!!

This morning I shipped out my TrapKat E-drum pad for repairs, forgetting that I was delaying sending it in until I tried out the Rolls crossover, and it showed up just after lunch.

So...I can't try it with my E-drums which was probably my #1 priority, but I will try it tonight with the Porchboard.

The SX11 is a pretty substantial feeling piece of micro-gear, like other Rolls devices.
Built like the typical tank.
The frequency control is a "smooth" type, no detente notches, handy or not, depending on your mood.
The only controls lacking, and I knew this up front, was a phase filter and Lo/Hi shelving controls.

It looks great so far...will let you know how it works out with the Compact and the L1 Extended Bass Package.
It Works Great!

Drum machine and Porchboard Bass - to T1 Tonematch mixer w/ Main Out to SX21 Main In.

Rolls SX21 Hi out to Compact, Lo Out to A1 Packlite amp & 2-B1s.

Ran Rolls X-over at lowest cut-off point of 50Hz and added bass from the A1/B1s...excellent.
Also ran the X-over at approximately the 400hz point that the Compact uses internally when on it's own.

Sounded different and still great...could probably allow the Compact a bit more headroom...not sure though.
Nothing technical here...just ears.
I'm impressed!

Edited - Bottom Line:

The Rolls allows you to have enough, or too much bass, if you want it.
Gain staging at the outputs of the SX11 is important.
To get too much bass, you need bass output up 75% to full on, and the Hi output at about noon.

Crossing over at @ 125hz sounded very good to my ears with MP3 program music.

I could not get the SX21's input to Peak with my T1...it's got headroom.


More to come when I get some time.
Over to you Roy!
Hey Everybody - I had 2 gigs today and got a last minute 3rd one so I didn't have a lot of time to work with it.

I agree with Drumr it makes a difference. I did a real basic test. Tracks straight from the laptop (MP3s) into the Compact, out of the compact to the rolls, to the A1 and 2 B1's.

I had to turn up the input and output on the rolls to get the gain I wanted. The input was clipping but not enough to cause any audio problem. Crossover between 250 and 375.

Looking forward to trying it with a T1.

2 B1's were better then 1. No brainer there.

All in all for the price and the size I think the Rolss is worth it. I don't know yet if I recomend going out and buying a A1 and B1's, if you don't have them already, and I am not sure if there is the punch some of you DJ's want. It is a nice fit between a Compact and a L1 when the compact is not enough and the L1 is to much. I am happy. Will let everyone know what it's like with the T1 when I get a chance.
quote:
originally posted by Roy
I don't know yet if I recommend going out and buying a A1 and B1's, if you don't have them already, and I am not sure if there is the punch some of you DJ's want. It is a nice fit between a Compact and a L1 when the compact is not enough and the L1 is to much. I am happy.

Exactly...
Since I didn't have a crossover, I didn't think about using my 2 B1's with the compact.
Given the $299. cost for the Energy sub, with a crossover, phase and volume, I gave one a try.
It works out nicely with a L1 Compact to give my solo show a little more punch.
The phase control does make a big difference in getting the sound right.

Somehow I think if I was going to bring along 2 B1's, I would just as soon bring the whole Model II for the overall coverage.
quote:
Somehow I think if I was going to bring along 2 B1's, I would just as soon bring the whole Model II for the overall coverage

Yes Joel, that's kind of the conclusion I've come to.
More weight, but probably less set up time involved, considering the extra wiring of the crossover.
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Munch:
I've actually used the Model II Power Stand with the legs left folded as an amp for a B1 with the Compact with good luck too.

I've done that too Tom, at a country jam session with the Porchboard and snare drum.
I'm using the B1s as a drum throne anyway, so it's almost logical.
The MII power stand has the EQ curve in it, so it's better than the third party crossover into the A1/B1 combo as I'm doing in the review of the SX21.
Herein lies the problem with trying to use Ext. Bass Package (or any sub) with the L1 Compact and a (Rolls) Crossover:

I have an outdoor party to play today with a keys/acoustic gtr/drums/3-vocal group.
The 2 Compacts were loaded in the van, along with the Rolls X-over, Packlite, 2-B1s, 2-T1s, extra cables, and extra electrical outlet strips.

This set up would require 6 outlets for 2 Compacts, 2 T1 power supplies, X-over,and Packlite.
My outlet strip only had four, so I had to find another.

Lots of set-up time for stringing it all up and then tinkering with the Rolls X-over point and adjusting to the results, all while playing.

It's almost 100 degrees out there today.

So, I just put the L1 Model II power stand and towers in the van.
Took out the extra cables, the Rolls, the two Compacts, extra plug strip, one T1 power supply, and the A1.
Now we have quick set up, no adjusting of anything.

Sorry I won't be able to report back on how the original set up was going to have worked out.
Maybe when it's cooler...I feel more like just having a simple, good time today, heck with technology.
We'll have plenty of bottom end.
Enjoy your day!

Smile
Hi guys, just got home from a great gig, and I'm tired but just wanted to report on the Compact/SX21/Packlite-B1 test.
It was a smashing success, and no one is more surprised and impressed than I am.
If you want to add bass to your Compact, buy a Rolls, it's cheap and it works!

There were some differences in my set up tonight, usually I set the drums up front, with a Model II 3-4' behind me and off to the side just a bit, and often sit on the two B1s. But after my excellent sound at last weeks outdoor gig with my B1s in front of the band, and the L1 about 7' back behind, I decided to try it again with the Compact/crossover arrangement.

I also put the drums in a corner of the bar, with my back against the wall, and the Compact directly to my right, even with my ears, about 3' to the side. I could hear my vocal very well. The rest of the band was more in front of me, not even with me like before.

Again, for this test, I took the T1 Master Out into the SX21 Input. With two short cables I took the hi output into the Compact, channel 2, and the lo out into the Packlite and B1s. I set the crossover at 375hz, and turned up the hi output to NOON position, then turned up the Compact until I could hear my vocal clearly, about noon as well. Of course, my vocal sounded thin without anything below 375hz. So I brought up the lo out until my voice sounded as I am accustomed to, about 2 o'clock on the lo out dial.

Then I brought up my kick drum mic, and Wow! It sounded just like I had a Model II hooked up.

My B1s were in front of, and to the right of my bass drum, on the hi hat side, only a foot from my AKG D-112. I couldn't believe my ears... and it all fell together that quickly. I felt no need to tweak the crossover point at all.

The guys in the band commented right away that they could hear my kick way better than they'd ever heard it, and later in the evening, our bassist said it sounded like my whole drum set was mic'd, the toms were full and deep. This might have been due, as much, to my being "in the corner", and behind all the other vocal mics. The drums bleeding into the mics worked in a good way.

I was able to play very quietly, and the drums sounded just great. The rest of the band was playing quite loud, and from audience feedback, the drums and the mix sounded better than ever. My daughter was one who said that, and she also took some pics that I'll post later.

The Compact, the Rolls, and the Extended bass package is a true winner!

The only, ONLY, ONLY thing that I didn't like was the extra set up time and cable wiring that comes with doing it this way. The Model II would have been quicker/easier/less "extra stuff".

My bassist said my vocal sounded better to him, than usual, and I could certainly hear myself well, although more "in the mix" than usual. I had to concentrate a little more, but it's reasonable, as I was not in front of the Compact at all, but directly beside it. I shouldn't have been able to hear it so good, but the bottom, down-firing speaker really worked out well for me.

A unexpected thing was, that things sounded good right off the bat. I didn't have to tinker with the Rolls at all, but might in the future just to see what happens.

I am sure the room had something to do with all this, the same set up might not work everywhere, but sure did here.
Putting the B1s up front is something I am going to continue to do, it just sounds better, and everyone in the band can hear the kick better (our bassist used to complain that he couldn't here it well).

So, I'm off to bed, will post some pictures of the set up when I can.
Go buy a Rolls.
Here are a couple pics.

I used to set up in this bar where our lead player is now, and up front.

Have moved to the back in order to get the B1s out front.

Pros:
Reinforced drum sound from the corner, out of the blast of guitars.

Cons:
More difficult monitoring vocals, hard to get in/out at the break!
Still, with the Compact next to me, not behind, I could still hear well.

Side view

#2:
Note how close to the B1s the kick mic is, I was not able to run without the kick gate without a ringing sound.
The ringing was the natural sound of the resonant head, but caused some trouble.

Front view
there is a simple in line lo pass crossover you can buy from parts express for $15 or so. I tried this coming out of the back of the compact into the Pac-Lite, and it was OKAY, it needed more gain on the output to keep up with the compact, +lot's of phasing since the 8" woofer already there as that was not crossed over
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Richard, Award Entertainment:
I was lucky enough to pick up a used Packlite for $150 and I've just ordered a Rolls crossover. It occurred to me that if I box them in a home-made flight case, the dimensions would be about
4"h X 5.5"w X 11"d. Just add B1s and cables and there's a solid little bass package with super quick set-up.



Hi Dj Richard where can I order a Rolls Crossover here in NZ? I tried different sites but they don't supply it. Thanks in advance.
One thing I did for a little while when I did a weekly karaoke gig at a little bar was... I used single Compact with a 1/4" from the line out to my second Compact with the line array out. Not any more lows, just more of the same bass. +BTW I would keep the second Compact very close to the base of the other (touching).
I checked it out but it's a rack gear too. I really like the size of the Rolls Tiny crossover so I can just put it next to my packlite discretely. Thanks for the reply.

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Richard, Award Entertainment:
Hi Exodus, I bought my Rolls Crossover from Amazon.com. There's a stereo crossover at The Rockshop which looks interesting, has a sub output and which isn't too expensive. If I read correctly, that would be quite funky for a pair of Compacts, a Packlite and a B1 or B2.
Hi DJ Richard,

I did exactly what you said and created a YouShop account and ordered the Rolls SX21 Tiny Crossover from Amazon for US$67.00. It's on the way to NZ and apparently arriving next week. Can't wait. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks again DJ Richard for the tip. Nick, I think you should go for it too.



quote:
Originally posted by DJ Richard, Award Entertainment:
Nick & Exodus, here's the link to the Rolls SX-21 Crossover at Amazon. This retailer doesn't ship to New Zealand, but you can set up a NZ Post YouShop account and that gives you a USA address for deliveries. That's how I got my DJ mixing desk and last pair of running shoes.
I have been kicking this around for some time. I just recently injured my back, so I sold both the powered subs I have. I just recently scored a Packlite on eBay. Why not come out of the main out of the Compact into the Rolls, than into the Packlite/B1 or B2? Also, have seen some newer model powered subs that look intriguing. The Fender PS512 and EV makes a similar sized powere sub. They come in about the same sized specs as the B2.
Hi macheted01,

I'm sorry to hear about your back. I hope feel better soon. In the meantime, take extra care. Congratulations on getting the A1 PackLite.

Yes - you can take a line out of the Compact Line Out to a crossover (like the Rolls) and from there to the A1 Packlite and B1 or B2. DrumrPete posted his report:

Mic'ing Kick drum with L1 Compact, Rolls SX21 tiny crossover, and Bose Ext. Bass Pkg.

I hope that helps.



ST

I just can't get enough bass (I am a drummer, so that could explain it) so for what it's worth, I just bought the Roll's SX21 and a Packlite for use with my Compact and a pair of B1's I had and I LIKE it   I have become a Bose devotee !!!  Oh, I was messing around and thought I would just play some music through it using the RCA's and just used the line out of the Compact into the SX21 (didn't use the T1) made for a lot cleaner setup ONLY 3 outlets  and added nice bass YES probably to much bass for most but ...... 

I'm a very recent L1 Compact owner and so far really loving it! Sounds great with the prerecorded music playback we've been throwing at it and my wife is very pleased as well which is always good

For my own preference, I'd like to be able to add more punch to the bass which is why I'm looking at taking the same approach of adding an outboard crossover, Packlite, and B1 to use with it.

Can anyone contrast this option against other approaches such as using a powered subwoofer? I'm looking at the Behringer B1200 as one option. Part of me likes the idea of using the Packlite + B1, but another part would prefer a simpler approach where the sub would have an integral crossover and involve fewer boxes. It's a tradeoff. Not sure of the quality of that unit, but it's a lot less expensive and more compact.

At this point I already have hooked up a Bluetooth audio receiver + power adapter cabled to it, not wanting to add too much more outboard stuff but would like more bass.

I guess I could have chosen a different system that included Bluetooth and had more oomph, but in actuality the ones I tested didn't sound as nice as the Bose.

Wondering if anyone has an opinion on the various options available today vs when this thread was first posted?

HI mitsurugi,

Thank you for joining the Community.

If you're looking for more bass, have you tried putting it in a corner?

Please tell us how you are using your L1® Compact? Is this for DJ applications, private parties in the home, something else?

Thanks,

ST

Hi ST,

I haven't tried a corner placement yet, just against a wall. My living room area doesn't have a suitable final resting place in a corner where I could tuck it all the way back into though. I will give that a try after I rearrange some furniture.

I temporarily connected my surround sound subwoofer to the full range outs on the back (it has a builtin crossover) and even that, though limited to 50 watts, puts a noticeable oomph in the kick and adds a fuller bottom. It certainly puts out more of a low end punch / thump. 

My most immediate reason for purchase was to provide a reasonably well performing and visually appealing source for music at my son's graduation party and other similar family get togethers. I had considered a couple of 10" powered PA speakers plus sub and speaker stands, but I ruled that out for simplicity & portability.

Secondarily we don't have a home stereo system anymore having migrated to all Mac and PC based music playback. We'd lost our speakers as casualties to animals and children some while back. So this will most likely stay somewhere in our main living area as it's so much better than my former PC speakers I'd used in our living area to play music from our Mac

Another use might be for karaoke, but at the moment we have a dedicated amp and non-powered speakers for that. Not very happy with their look so this might get used for that purpose.

The most unlikely use is for live music. I play bass and sometimes guitar so if there comes a need for a portable PA for a small get together, I have an option for that.

That covers the main uses, I think!

 

I now have a pair of Compacts and have paired them with a powered JBL 15" sub - a Packlite and Rolls SX with 1 & 2 B1's, the Packlite with a B2, a QSC K12 Sub and a 12" Dennon Axis sub,  with a single Compact 1 or 2 B1's gives me what I want.  I must say I am more impressed with Bose every time I use mine and I still am amazed at the bass the B1 produces.  With a pair the JBL sounded pretty good but 90% of the listeners out there will never know what is missing if you don't have it and will still be amazed by the sound produced by the Compacts.  I was using an L1 S1 the other night DJ'ing with a B2 against a wall and I actually had to much bass ........  

 

I'm still noodling this around myself. There is another thought I had:

Is the B1 designed such that it only performs well when it is driven from an L1 having the built-in "B1 EQ" settings? IOW can it do well on its own, or does it need special EQ settings to bring out the best in it, similar to the 802 PA speakers?

Hi mitsurugi,

mitsurugi posted:

I'm still noodling this around myself. There is another thought I had:

Is the B1 designed such that it only performs well when it is driven from an L1 having the built-in "B1 EQ" settings?

Yes. There's a crossover and EQ profile in the L1® power stand for the B1. This is not present in an L1® Compact. The L1® Compact Line OUT is full range.  This is why you need a crossover to use a B1 with an L1® Compact.

IOW can it do well on its own, or does it need special EQ settings to bring out the best in it, similar to the 802 PA speakers?



ST

jaswrx posted:

Tom,

 

Did you find the pair of B1s sounded better and was louder than the Ksub and JBL sub, and what model is that?

The B1's do not create the same bass response as a KSub - The B2 is similar but the B1's have their own sound,  it is tighter and run through the Bose T1 Tonematch or into the Compact I find I like the sound of my cajon and electronic kit (Roland TD and Yamaha DTX12) better, they sound great with very little fiddling and I have to work to get the same sound from my other subs.  The JBL is aJBL PRX715XLF 15" and a great sub but the ease of use of a pair of B1's or the B2 is now causing my to choose them over it.

 

Hi ST,

Sorry for not being clear on what I was asking about

Yep, I'm aware that I'd need a crossover when using an external sub (either the B1 or other).  But what I am curious about is whether the B1 itself needs further electronic massaging to "sound good"?

If you think about some Bose systems - I'm imagining a set of 802 or 901s where you are never supposed to go without the special equalizer - the question comes to my mind regarding just what exactly the L1 is doing internally when it routes the signal to the B1.

I am making an assumption that because the L1 tower has hardwired internal support for the B1, there's a likely potential that the L1 actually includes special Bose-unique processing to make the B1 come alive. If so, obviously I would not get the benefit of that when using "just" a crossover. Do you know if that's the case? (Hopefully that makes sense!)

Tom T posted:
jaswrx posted:

Tom,

 

Did you find the pair of B1s sounded better and was louder than the Ksub and JBL sub, and what model is that?

The B1's do not create the same bass response as a KSub - The B2 is similar but the B1's have their own sound,  it is tighter and run through the Bose T1 Tonematch or into the Compact I find I like the sound of my cajon and electronic kit (Roland TD and Yamaha DTX12) better, they sound great with very little fiddling and I have to work to get the same sound from my other subs.  The JBL is aJBL PRX715XLF 15" and a great sub but the ease of use of a pair of B1's or the B2 is now causing my to choose them over it.

 

Thanks! Ya, I don't care for the Ksub, although louder than B2 and of course a pair of B1s.

 

I do however think the PRX 715XLF is a better sub than the B2, but not as portable.

Hi Mitsurugi

mitsurugi posted:

Hi ST,

Sorry for not being clear on what I was asking about

Yep, I'm aware that I'd need a crossover when using an external sub (either the B1 or other).  But what I am curious about is whether the B1 itself needs further electronic massaging to "sound good"?

If you think about some Bose systems - I'm imagining a set of 802 or 901s where you are never supposed to go without the special equalizer - the question comes to my mind regarding just what exactly the L1 is doing internally when it routes the signal to the B1.

There is definitely some B1 specific EQ processing inside the L1® Model 1S, and L1® Model II.  That's not present in the L1® Compact.

I am making an assumption that because the L1 tower has hardwired internal support for the B1, there's a likely potential that the L1 actually includes special Bose-unique processing to make the B1 come alive. If so, obviously I would not get the benefit of that when using "just" a crossover. Do you know if that's the case? (Hopefully that makes sense!)

You are right, you won't get the benefit of the Bose-unique processing (EQ) if you use "just" a crossover.  It would be difficult to replicate that because:

  • the B1 was designed to work with the larger L1® models. Those units have a crossover point at 200 Hz
  • the L1® Compact goes down to 65 Hz
    • You will have some overlap with the B1 unless you set the crossover at 65 Hz 
    • You can eliminate the overlap with the crossover at 65 Hz, but then you're only getting the range from 40-65 Hz from the B1
  • The Bose-unique processing for the B1 and the sound the designers were crafting was based on the B1 running 40-200 Hz.


That doesn't mean that the B1 with a Compact can't sound good. It just means that the designers didn't anticipate this use case.

Does that help?

ST

 

I have used the Compact with external full range speakers, house systems, and with powered subs. 

To my ear, the full range systems and powered speakers carry a very similar eq to the Compact, I am always pleasantly surprised with the sound I get in those instances. It seems that whatever is going on with the Compact eq is present in the line out.

Let me offer an opinion on sub use based on recent personal use with the desired output being limited to producing a bass drum thump with an electronic foot drum, to accompany an acoustic guitar and male vocal.

I have used two different powered subs, one expensive, and one not so, both 12". With the crossover at 150 Hz and the output volume matched to the Compact, the eq of the sub was not a factor. The bottom end is extended to 35 or 40 Hz and the overlap does not muddy up the sound in a detrimental way. Cost of the sub did not make a noticeable difference in sound.

If the music being played is heavy in bass content, then that overlap could become problematic and require a variable crossover to minimize the overlap region. 

Because in my experience, I didn't think it necessary to run the subs at full power, the only issue I see with using the B1 with a Packlite is you have no volume control, unless, of course, there is one on your chosen crossover. Depending on your needs or desired bass response it might not be an issue at all. 

O..

Oldghm posted:

 

I have used the Compact with external full range speakers, house systems, and with powered subs. 

To my ear, the full range systems and powered speakers carry a very similar eq to the Compact, I am always pleasantly surprised with the sound I get in those instances. It seems that whatever is going on with the Compact eq is present in the line out.

Let me offer an opinion on sub use based on recent personal use with the desired output being limited to producing a bass drum thump with an electronic foot drum, to accompany an acoustic guitar and male vocal.

I have used two different powered subs, one expensive, and one not so, both 12". With the crossover at 150 Hz and the output volume matched to the Compact, the eq of the sub was not a factor. The bottom end is extended to 35 or 40 Hz and the overlap does not muddy up the sound in a detrimental way. Cost of the sub did not make a noticeable difference in sound.

If the music being played is heavy in bass content, then that overlap could become problematic and require a variable crossover to minimize the overlap region. 

Because in my experience, I didn't think it necessary to run the subs at full power, the only issue I see with using the B1 with a Packlite is you have no volume control, unless, of course, there is one on your chosen crossover. Depending on your needs or desired bass response it might not be an issue at all. 

O..

I have T1, L1compact. Acquired A1 and ordered to him two subwoofers b1. I plan to use the T1 mixer as a crossover. Using pEQ, I cut the frequency of e-drums and bass frequencies below 200 hertz. This signal through the master output will go to L1compact. Then I take the signal from the drums and bass guitar channels from the direct output and let it go to the fourth stereo channel. Here with the same pEQ I cut frequencies above 200Hz and direct this signal to AUX and then to amplifier A1 and subwoofers b1. While the mute button is turned on and the volume level of the fourth stereo channel is zero. 

 

The volume of the amplifier A1 is controlled by the AUX level on Tonematch T1 mixer.

Sorry for google-translator)))))

Add Reply

Likes (1)
ST
Post
Having trouble signing in?

We recently updated our sign-in procedure and if you have old sign-in data cached, this can create a problem. Please:

  1. Clear your browser cache and cookies
  2. Then close the browser (not just the window)
  3. Open the browser and try again
Thank you

Please make sure that your profile is up to date
×
×
×
×