Compact with Packlite + B1

I've tried finding a good, small, simple Crossover that could be used in front of the B1s.
Found a couple of raw, circuit board types that had to be hardwired, but never found anything to my liking.
So I've given up on the idea.

I've gone with scaling the gig gear to the instruments involved.
Full band, two or three Model IIs with B1s.
Duos, and open mic gigs, two compacts and a T1, but no mic'ing the kick drum.
This forced me to modify the kick, and tune my drums a little better.
It's working out.

I see you use a single Model 1 typically.
How often do you do DJ gigs with your Compact(s)?
Hi Roy,


It looks like that might work.

Notes from the Rolls SX21 Manual







Do you have ANYTHING with a crossover that you could try before spending the money on this?


I've got at least three half-octave graphic equalizers sitting in storage in my old gig rigs. Do you have anything like that lying around that you could try?
Hey Roy, good digging.
I found nothing like this in my searches at the time this thread started.
All I could find where circuit board type crossovers, not road worthy.

I have a Rolls headphone amp, and it's reasonably good (not top) quality.
For $65 I'm very tempted to try it out.
I'm sure the only drawback to this will be that you don't have that built in Bose "shaping" of the EQ frequencies, that you get built into the L1 units prior to the bass out and B1 output.
I discovered this trying to use my Porchboard direct into the A1/B1 combo with and without the T1.
It did not sound as nicely shaped as running the Porchboard directly into the Model II power stand, and into a B1...no comparison, really.

If you are great with EQ, I'm sure it is no problem, but I'm just not that great.
Still, anything that will help,even a little, with the Porchboard, or bass drum, would be an improvement with the Compact.
Personally, I don't think the Compact lacks anything for vocals, guitars, or program music.
In my demoing experience though, keys could use a little added "richness", when compared to a big L1.
Or so the keyboard players felt...I thought the Compact did a great job, considering it's simplicity and ease.
Interesting note; I just got a call from Melissa @ tech support for Pro Acoustics USA (proacousticsusa.com), asking if I had any questions about my purchase of the SX21.
Obviously they are interested in how this is being used and if we had questions.
She said that they have had folks by a crossover not knowing what they were getting.

It's rare to find a supplier who has this kind of personal interaction, a good thing!
Hi Lou,

From the call I got from Pro Acoustics, it seems my unit just shipped, probably won't see it until later this week.

I have an outdoor gig that I was wanting to use 2 Compacts for, as I lost my van to a deer and can't haul much right now.
If it works out, I will bring 2 B1s to that one.

The ways I will test the SX21 at home is
1) taking the direct out of the Compact into the crossover, and then sending the Lo Out to the Packlite/2-B1,
2) Taking the T1 Main Out into the SX, splitting it there, sending the highs to the Compact and the lows to the B1s.

I'd prefer that option #1 work out, as that is the simplest.
Darn the timing!!

This morning I shipped out my TrapKat E-drum pad for repairs, forgetting that I was delaying sending it in until I tried out the Rolls crossover, and it showed up just after lunch.

So...I can't try it with my E-drums which was probably my #1 priority, but I will try it tonight with the Porchboard.

The SX11 is a pretty substantial feeling piece of micro-gear, like other Rolls devices.
Built like the typical tank.
The frequency control is a "smooth" type, no detente notches, handy or not, depending on your mood.
The only controls lacking, and I knew this up front, was a phase filter and Lo/Hi shelving controls.

It looks great so far...will let you know how it works out with the Compact and the L1 Extended Bass Package.
It Works Great!

Drum machine and Porchboard Bass - to T1 Tonematch mixer w/ Main Out to SX21 Main In.

Rolls SX21 Hi out to Compact, Lo Out to A1 Packlite amp & 2-B1s.

Ran Rolls X-over at lowest cut-off point of 50Hz and added bass from the A1/B1s...excellent.
Also ran the X-over at approximately the 400hz point that the Compact uses internally when on it's own.

Sounded different and still great...could probably allow the Compact a bit more headroom...not sure though.
Nothing technical here...just ears.
I'm impressed!

Edited - Bottom Line:

The Rolls allows you to have enough, or too much bass, if you want it.
Gain staging at the outputs of the SX11 is important.
To get too much bass, you need bass output up 75% to full on, and the Hi output at about noon.

Crossing over at @ 125hz sounded very good to my ears with MP3 program music.

I could not get the SX21's input to Peak with my T1...it's got headroom.


More to come when I get some time.
Over to you Roy!
Hey Everybody - I had 2 gigs today and got a last minute 3rd one so I didn't have a lot of time to work with it.

I agree with Drumr it makes a difference. I did a real basic test. Tracks straight from the laptop (MP3s) into the Compact, out of the compact to the rolls, to the A1 and 2 B1's.

I had to turn up the input and output on the rolls to get the gain I wanted. The input was clipping but not enough to cause any audio problem. Crossover between 250 and 375.

Looking forward to trying it with a T1.

2 B1's were better then 1. No brainer there.

All in all for the price and the size I think the Rolss is worth it. I don't know yet if I recomend going out and buying a A1 and B1's, if you don't have them already, and I am not sure if there is the punch some of you DJ's want. It is a nice fit between a Compact and a L1 when the compact is not enough and the L1 is to much. I am happy. Will let everyone know what it's like with the T1 when I get a chance.
quote:
originally posted by Roy
I don't know yet if I recommend going out and buying a A1 and B1's, if you don't have them already, and I am not sure if there is the punch some of you DJ's want. It is a nice fit between a Compact and a L1 when the compact is not enough and the L1 is to much. I am happy.

Exactly...
Since I didn't have a crossover, I didn't think about using my 2 B1's with the compact.
Given the $299. cost for the Energy sub, with a crossover, phase and volume, I gave one a try.
It works out nicely with a L1 Compact to give my solo show a little more punch.
The phase control does make a big difference in getting the sound right.

Somehow I think if I was going to bring along 2 B1's, I would just as soon bring the whole Model II for the overall coverage.
quote:
Somehow I think if I was going to bring along 2 B1's, I would just as soon bring the whole Model II for the overall coverage

Yes Joel, that's kind of the conclusion I've come to.
More weight, but probably less set up time involved, considering the extra wiring of the crossover.
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Munch:
I've actually used the Model II Power Stand with the legs left folded as an amp for a B1 with the Compact with good luck too.

I've done that too Tom, at a country jam session with the Porchboard and snare drum.
I'm using the B1s as a drum throne anyway, so it's almost logical.
The MII power stand has the EQ curve in it, so it's better than the third party crossover into the A1/B1 combo as I'm doing in the review of the SX21.
Herein lies the problem with trying to use Ext. Bass Package (or any sub) with the L1 Compact and a (Rolls) Crossover:

I have an outdoor party to play today with a keys/acoustic gtr/drums/3-vocal group.
The 2 Compacts were loaded in the van, along with the Rolls X-over, Packlite, 2-B1s, 2-T1s, extra cables, and extra electrical outlet strips.

This set up would require 6 outlets for 2 Compacts, 2 T1 power supplies, X-over,and Packlite.
My outlet strip only had four, so I had to find another.

Lots of set-up time for stringing it all up and then tinkering with the Rolls X-over point and adjusting to the results, all while playing.

It's almost 100 degrees out there today.

So, I just put the L1 Model II power stand and towers in the van.
Took out the extra cables, the Rolls, the two Compacts, extra plug strip, one T1 power supply, and the A1.
Now we have quick set up, no adjusting of anything.

Sorry I won't be able to report back on how the original set up was going to have worked out.
Maybe when it's cooler...I feel more like just having a simple, good time today, heck with technology.
We'll have plenty of bottom end.
Enjoy your day!

Smile
Hi guys, just got home from a great gig, and I'm tired but just wanted to report on the Compact/SX21/Packlite-B1 test.
It was a smashing success, and no one is more surprised and impressed than I am.
If you want to add bass to your Compact, buy a Rolls, it's cheap and it works!

There were some differences in my set up tonight, usually I set the drums up front, with a Model II 3-4' behind me and off to the side just a bit, and often sit on the two B1s. But after my excellent sound at last weeks outdoor gig with my B1s in front of the band, and the L1 about 7' back behind, I decided to try it again with the Compact/crossover arrangement.

I also put the drums in a corner of the bar, with my back against the wall, and the Compact directly to my right, even with my ears, about 3' to the side. I could hear my vocal very well. The rest of the band was more in front of me, not even with me like before.

Again, for this test, I took the T1 Master Out into the SX21 Input. With two short cables I took the hi output into the Compact, channel 2, and the lo out into the Packlite and B1s. I set the crossover at 375hz, and turned up the hi output to NOON position, then turned up the Compact until I could hear my vocal clearly, about noon as well. Of course, my vocal sounded thin without anything below 375hz. So I brought up the lo out until my voice sounded as I am accustomed to, about 2 o'clock on the lo out dial.

Then I brought up my kick drum mic, and Wow! It sounded just like I had a Model II hooked up.

My B1s were in front of, and to the right of my bass drum, on the hi hat side, only a foot from my AKG D-112. I couldn't believe my ears... and it all fell together that quickly. I felt no need to tweak the crossover point at all.

The guys in the band commented right away that they could hear my kick way better than they'd ever heard it, and later in the evening, our bassist said it sounded like my whole drum set was mic'd, the toms were full and deep. This might have been due, as much, to my being "in the corner", and behind all the other vocal mics. The drums bleeding into the mics worked in a good way.

I was able to play very quietly, and the drums sounded just great. The rest of the band was playing quite loud, and from audience feedback, the drums and the mix sounded better than ever. My daughter was one who said that, and she also took some pics that I'll post later.

The Compact, the Rolls, and the Extended bass package is a true winner!

The only, ONLY, ONLY thing that I didn't like was the extra set up time and cable wiring that comes with doing it this way. The Model II would have been quicker/easier/less "extra stuff".

My bassist said my vocal sounded better to him, than usual, and I could certainly hear myself well, although more "in the mix" than usual. I had to concentrate a little more, but it's reasonable, as I was not in front of the Compact at all, but directly beside it. I shouldn't have been able to hear it so good, but the bottom, down-firing speaker really worked out well for me.

A unexpected thing was, that things sounded good right off the bat. I didn't have to tinker with the Rolls at all, but might in the future just to see what happens.

I am sure the room had something to do with all this, the same set up might not work everywhere, but sure did here.
Putting the B1s up front is something I am going to continue to do, it just sounds better, and everyone in the band can hear the kick better (our bassist used to complain that he couldn't here it well).

So, I'm off to bed, will post some pictures of the set up when I can.
Go buy a Rolls.
Here are a couple pics.

I used to set up in this bar where our lead player is now, and up front.

Have moved to the back in order to get the B1s out front.

Pros:
Reinforced drum sound from the corner, out of the blast of guitars.

Cons:
More difficult monitoring vocals, hard to get in/out at the break!
Still, with the Compact next to me, not behind, I could still hear well.

Side view

#2:
Note how close to the B1s the kick mic is, I was not able to run without the kick gate without a ringing sound.
The ringing was the natural sound of the resonant head, but caused some trouble.

Front view

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