Midmoto
Quoting midmoto from The Sketcher
quote:
Hello
This is the setup I am thinking of using for a worship team of a new church launching Sept 11th.
The venue is a modern movie house, stadium seating for 280. We had a dry run last Sunday and the single PAS worked better then I expected but it needs improvement. I have no money in the budget right now for additional PAS's but hope to in the future. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you


One interesting feature of this kind of space is that the seating is raked.

The diagram probably has the angle too 'steep' but we'll see when midmoto gets back to us with some details.
Original Post
There was also the question of how to set up the stage. Here's the reply...

Hi midmoto,

Here are some ideas for your stage setup.

First, a quick overview. I'm suggesting that you move the Bose System to the centre of the stage, near the back. You can use it primarily for vocals, (mic's 1-5) and back tracks from the computer (6). Then if you want to add a little support for the Guitar, Bass, Drums (7,8,9) you can do it.

The Mixer - Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro
We are running everything into the mixer, but splitting it up into 3 busses.

  • Left (mics 1-4)
  • Right(mic 5)
  • Alt 3 (Everything else)
    See page 18 in the Mackie Manual* for details about using the Mute button to route a signal to the Alt buss.

This will let you use a preset for the mics 1-4, a separate preset for mic 5, and run flat for anything else. All the individual volume and EQ settings are being done on the mixer. The overall volume will be controlled on the Bose System.

*References to the Mackie Manual are to http://www.mackie.com/pdf/1202vlzpro_om.pdf

The Bose System
By routing things through the mixer we are using

  • Channel 1 for mics 1-4 with one preset.
  • Channel 2 for mics 5 with another preset.
  • Channel 3 is handling everything else


Here is the picture.

-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Codes:
Orange numbers are for the System and Inputs using it.
Small numbers are Channels on the System.
Green numbers 1-9 are inputs to your mixer



System 1: Mainly for vocals and tracks with a little bit of the instruments - 'to taste'

  • Channel 1: From the LEFT channel, main out from mixer.
    We are running mics through this (into the mixer, panned hard Left).
    I could not find references on the web to the Shure Beta 59A your mentioned. I'm going to guess you meant Shure Beta 58A
    Preset V2.0 16 Shure Beta 58A or Preset V1.0 03

  • Channel 2: From the RIGHT channel, main out from mixer.
    This is your Shure Lav mic through the mixer, panned hard Right. I've suggested preset 04 as a place to start experimenting
    Preset V2.0 04 Vocal Mic Hi Gain "Normal" or Preset V1.0 01 or 02

  • Channel 3: From Alt 3 output on the mixer (see page 16 in the Mackie Manual). We are routing everything else to Alt Channel 3 using the Mute (alt routing on the Mackie)
    - the computer
    - line out from the Line 6 Guitar Amp
    - Line Out from the Ampeg Bass Amp
    - mic(s) for the Drum kit


Effects - picoverb
In this space I would run without effects. It's large enough that there will be plenty of natural reverb in the room. Adding more at the source will probably cost you in terms of clarity for the vocals.

Quoting midmoto from The Sketcher
quote:

Gear is as follows
4 Shure Beta 59A's
Shure Lav mic
Mackie VLZ1202 mixer w/ picoverb run to all channels
Ampeg V4B w/ Epifani 3-10 cab 68 P bass
Line 6 Guitar amp w/ 83 Strat


-- original discussion starts here
Hi midmoto,

Here's an idea for one (of several) ways you could work with your new System.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --
Codes: Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Small numbers are Channels on the Systems.
Green numbers are for sources routed through the mixer (10).

Questions for you.

  • 1. How are you using the computer?
  • 2. Would the Guitar Player and Bass Player be willing to use preamps or effects processors instead of their amps?
    We may be able to work without using the Ampeg or Line6 amps now. This would make it easier for setup/teardown and for managing the onstage balance.
  • 3. Are the four mics Shure Beta 58A's? (not 59A)


If you can tell me about these things, I will write up some notes to explain the signal routings for you.
quote:
Originally posted by ST:
Hi midmoto,

Here's an idea for one (of several) ways you could work with your new System.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --
Codes: Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Small numbers are Channels on the Systems.
Green numbers are for sources routed through the mixer (10).

Questions for you.

  • 1. How are you using the computer? For short movie clips w/ audio
  • 2. Would the Guitar Player and Bass Player be willing to use preamps or effects processors instead of their amps? Yes, bas has a tube DI. Guitar has a line 6 amp out.
    We may be able to work without using the Ampeg or Line6 amps now. This would make it easier for setup/teardown and for managing the onstage balance.
  • 3. Are the four mics Shure Beta 58A's? (not 59A) They are 58's, my mistake.


If you can tell me about these things, I will write up some notes to explain the signal routings for you.
We used the two systems this weekend. I had two vocals hard right, two hard left. Bass and Guitar in both for mix. It went well.
Here are the measurments of the room.....
50' wide
65' long
30' high
The rise starts 20' from rear stage wall, going from 0 to 15' high over a 45' span.
Thank you again
Hi midmoto,

Here are some things that you can consider.

Working with the dimensions you gave me,
50' wide
65' long
30' high
The rise starts 20' from rear stage wall, going from 0 to 15' high over a 45' span.


I get this picture of the space, viewed from the side.
Note: the second line parallel to the floor - Ear Height- about 30 - 40 inches above the floor
The scale is 10 pixels per foot.



The L1 Cylindrical Radiator will propagate the sound directly in front it parallel to the base in a 'beam' 7 feet high (shown in yellow). This means that the people at the back may not hear very well.


If you tilt the System (prop up the front) you can keep everyone in the sound field.


So you are changing things from yellow to green


Somewhere here in the forums, Cliff-at-Bose posted a beautiful picture of something he built for angle the System for the Bose Theatre. I'll see if I can find it for you.

Edit: spelling.
quote:

* 1. How are you using the computer? For short movie clips w/ audio
* 2. Would the Guitar Player and Bass Player be willing to use preamps or effects processors instead of their amps?
Yes, bas has a tube DI. Guitar has a line 6 amp out.
We may be able to work without using the Ampeg or Line6 amps now. This would make it easier for setup/teardown and for managing the onstage balance.

* 3. Are the four mics Shure Beta 58A's? (not 59A) They are 58's, my mistake.


1. Okay - just wanted to be aware if you were doing backing tracks.
2. "We may be able to work without using the Ampeg or Line6 amps now" Great - you've got it.
3. No problem. It's good to be sure we are talking about the same thing.


quote:

We used the two systems this weekend. I had two vocals hard right, two hard left. Bass and Guitar in both for mix. It went well.


That's terrific. Sounds like you had everything running through the mixer. It was probably easier to have centralized control.

I understand why you did this, "Bass and Guitar in both for mix", but try it with the instruments 'localized'. You might get better clarity, and the audience perception of who is contributing what and when should be enhanced.

When you get a chance, could you post a picture of your setup (or of you playing there)? It's an unusual venue, and it would be great to see what you've done with it.
We tilted the system back slightly this past weekend and I do think it helped alot.
This weekend I am giving up the crutch of using my Ampeg rig, gonna go straight Bose for vocals & bass. Mix in guitar.
Let ya know how it went.
quote:
We tilted the system back slightly this past weekend and I do think it helped alot.



That's great news midmoto.

' really appreciate the feedback on that.

I don't think of the Ampeg rig is a crutch. It's just a different device for a different situation. Don't be surprised though, it may take a little getting-used-to because it will be different.

What you can certain of, is that the people listening will hear the subtleties in your playing (attacks for example), that may have been inaudible before.

Yes, please let us know how it goes.

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