Hi scootermm,
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Quoting scootermm from The Sketcher
I can see using the L1 systems for all instruments and mic that would have no problem going direct to PA. (Vocals, Keys, Bass, Acoustic guitar)

But we get our elec guitar sounds through multiple pedals in combination with valve amps that output a certain kind of sound. Can the guitar amps be incorporated in a way that we still get all of the benefits of the L1 system?

Thanks

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Hi Scootermm,

Great question!

Typically you would mic the guitar cabinets or if you have an amp modeller, you can take a line out of that. This is same as running running your electric guitar (amp/modeller) to the house PA.

I've done both, and for me it was simpler to use a modeller but that's up to you.  When I'm in a vintage mood, I use my favourite valve amp. It has a built-in cabinet simulator / line-out. I run that to my L1®. It's glorious.

To get into this in more detail, please tell us about your guitar signal chain.

Thanks,

ST

Myself and the other guitarist have very different paths in order to achieve "our" individual sounds.  Since we cover different musical genres, we're usually not happy just having one clean and one dirty sound.

Being a professional studio sound engineer myself, my rig is comprised of a "well thought out" pedal board (see picture) that allows me the options I need in a live situation.

My board then feeds into a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III valve amp with a Sennheiser e906 microphone feeding the house PA and a Line6 Relay G10 wireless unit.

I'm currently using 2 guitars to cover our set list.  I have a PRS standard to cover the heavier tones and a vintage Stratocaster to cover those single coil sounds.

The other guitarist uses a Roland Katana solid state amp with pre-programmed built-in effects and a Shure SM57 microphone feeding the house PA along with a Line6 Relay G10 wireless unit.

He currently uses a vintage Gibson Les Paul as his sole electric guitar and also uses a Martin Dreadnought acoustic guitar through the acoustic input of the same Katana amp.

Two completely different ways of achieving our individual sounds.

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Hi Scootermm,

Thanks for the detailed repy. It's nice to get to know you better.

I think the simplest thing is to mic the end of the signal chain (as you're already doing with your rig).

The idea, certainly not new to you, is to use your rig to get the tone and let the L1® deliver it to the room.

ST

I guess my concern here is with the volume and narrow directionality of the guitar amps mucking up both the on stage levels and what's being presented out front.  Maybe this setup requires the amps to be at a lower than usual volume so that they only deliver what's needed to the L1?

HI Scootermm,

Yes, and yes.  I like to run the electric guitars at the lowest volume required to get the right tone and let the L1s carry the sound out to the room. It's good to do that so the dispersion of the sound is the same for the guitars as everything else.

Check out these articles.





ST

Because these units are not cheap, I guess my next question involves how much L1 does each person require?  Meaning, does the Bass really need a full system if his frequency response is so limited.  Would he even need a ToneMatch for his set up or just an amp simulator or maybe even just direct?

For the keyboard set up, I find that live keyboards come to life with all of their inherit stereo sounds, especially for Leslie simulation and such.  Would you have to have more than one unit or is the experience of playing through a single unit palpable because of the 180 degree line array?

Vocals seem like a no brainer.

Hi Scootermm,

In an ideal situation (and I've done this countless times) you have an L1® for each performer. Here's a video that explains why  The L1® Approach and the History of Amplification 

As a practical matter, can have two or more performers share an L1®.

scootermm posted:

Because these units are not cheap, I guess my next question involves how much L1 does each person require?  Meaning, does the Bass really need a full system if his frequency response is so limited.  

If the bassist is also a vocalist, then there are great benefits for the bassist to have his own L1®. Whether or not you devote an L1® to bass guitar,  it's nice to pull a high pass line out of the bass amp and run that into an L1® close to the bassist.  This adds great definition to what he's playing.

Would he even need a ToneMatch for his set up or just an amp simulator or maybe even just direct?

I've done it all three ways. There are some ToneMatch Presets for bass that sound great, but some bassists want to build their tone just like guitarists.

For the keyboard set up, I find that live keyboards come to life with all of their inherit stereo sounds, especially for Leslie simulation and such.  Would you have to have more than one unit or is the experience of playing through a single unit palpable because of the 180 degree line array?

I don't usually run any sound sources through more than one L1®. You lose the Cocktail Party Effect.

Sometimes I make an exception for keyboards if it's important to have stereo effects, I run one keyboard output to an L1® close to the keyboardist, and the other keyboard output to another L1® across the stage (someone else's L1®).  Unless I the keyboard stereo effects are the feature of the band, I wouldn't dedicate two L1®  to keyboards.

Vocals seem like a no brainer.

If you haven't already done it, check out Cocktail Party Effect  <---

This is why I always run each vocal to just one L1®.

How are we doing so far?

ST

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