Discussions about the new Bose S1 Pro

Bose S1 Pro

Designed for musicians, DJs and general PA use, the S1 Pro is the ultimate all-in-one PA, floor monitor and practice amplifier that's ready to be your go-anywhere Bluetooth music system for nearly any occasion. 

This is the place to discuss the S1 Pro system.

Bose S1 Pro System

ccc posted:

  I bought this unit because of Bose's reputation for excellence, but this unit has some bugs. I don't have noisy pods / zipper noises, but I do have a mic issue with no sound at all under the halfway  point when switched to mic position. I will again repeat that I expect excellence from Bose and hope the bugs are all worked out before production. I am not trying to deface Bose or offend the glee club. Bose needs to hear user issues along with the praises. I bought this unit knowing that the mid notching feedback  was automatic, and lacked the warmth of other brands and understood this Bose model has a limited frequency range due to the shear physics of its size. I am not concerned about it being the loudest little box I am concerned that all features work as it should. Bluetooth, tonematch and volume pods... ... ... 

Hi CCC,

A couple of things I am not familiar with.

Could you explain what you mean by "mid notching feedback was automatic" and if possible where you got the information.

I would also be interested in information that made you understand the Bose S1 has "limited frequency range due to the shear physics of its size".

I have read all the information that I can find on the S1 and never ran across this before.

On the subject of mic level;

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think what we find on the S1 is not that unusual for  a mixer channel that has both mic and line level inputs, but no trim control. The volume control is designed to add gain at a rate that either input level can be accommodated, and both can be brought to performance level within the permitted travel. It is not necessary that the controls match position for guitar and vocal mic, only that the output levels can be adjusted so that each are at the volume required for performance.

O..

 

Oldghm posted:
ccc posted:

  I bought this unit because of Bose's reputation for excellence, but this unit has some bugs. I don't have noisy pods / zipper noises, but I do have a mic issue with no sound at all under the halfway  point when switched to mic position. I will again repeat that I expect excellence from Bose and hope the bugs are all worked out before production. I am not trying to deface Bose or offend the glee club. Bose needs to hear user issues along with the praises. I bought this unit knowing that the mid notching feedback  was automatic, and lacked the warmth of other brands and understood this Bose model has a limited frequency range due to the shear physics of its size. I am not concerned about it being the loudest little box I am concerned that all features work as it should. Bluetooth, tonematch and volume pods... ... ... 

Hi CCC,

A couple of things I am not familiar with.

Could you explain what you mean by "mid notching feedback was automatic" and if possible where you got the information.

I would also be interested in information that made you understand the Bose S1 has "limited frequency range due to the shear physics of its size".

I have read all the information that I can find on the S1 and never ran across this before.

On the subject of mic level;

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think what we find on the S1 is not that unusual for  a mixer channel that has both mic and line level inputs, but no trim control. The volume control is designed to add gain at a rate that either input level can be accommodated, and both can be brought to performance level within the permitted travel. It is not necessary that the controls match position for guitar and vocal mic, only that the output levels can be adjusted so that each are at the volume required for performance.

O..

 

The volume matching becomes important if you can get your guitar to a volume above the crowd and not the other. I understand that it is a matter of circumstance and choosing the right equipment in the first place but it would be nice to know that you have the extra volume if needed. when the mic volume is pegged and you still have the guitar volume at 3/4, you start to worry. Also, the volume does make a significant jump from almost not hearing anything to pretty loud once it hits the half way point. For me, so far, this hasn't been a problem, but it could be under the wrong conditions.

Rick W posted:

The volume matching becomes important if you can get your guitar to a volume above the crowd and not the other. I understand that it is a matter of circumstance and choosing the right equipment in the first place but it would be nice to know that you have the extra volume if needed. when the mic volume is pegged and you still have the guitar volume at 3/4, you start to worry. Also, the volume does make a significant jump from almost not hearing anything to pretty loud once it hits the half way point. For me, so far, this hasn't been a problem, but it could be under the wrong conditions.

 

Hi Rick W,

I tend to agree with most you have said here. My point being  (in the post you quoted) there is nothing inherently wrong with the design of the S1 Pro. It has a place and a purpose in the field of PA equipment but, It's output is not infinite. If you are maxed on either S1 channel and not above the noise floor of your audience, you have chosen the wrong equipment for the  occasion. 

If you are using the  S1 where electric outlets are available, you could use one of the many available, single channel, inexpensive tube preamps. When traveling I usually keep one in the gig bag just in case. An outboard preamp doesn't guarantee more volume in the end, you still have to stay below the feedback threshold, but it will get you more gain on the front end if that is your goal.

O.. 

This unit does not offer a manual notching for feedback. Bose's tone match works that in. Certain frequencies are considered trouble frequencies fall into the mids. The canceling system for feedback frequencies is usually an elimination of that annoying frequency. Bose gives very little in specs and gives no wattage output. So it is difficult to talk about Bose's technical specs other then the PR information they provide. They do things differently.  Many companies have come up with feedback algorithms most are notched and manual, rotary type or button push in on a unit.  I prefer to use a parametric eq directly as I can sweep the frequencies to get as full and warm as possible while canceling out an annoying frequency.

As far as bass a small speaker can only produce so much low end. One point of view is that the human ear can only hear a certain frequency range. L1's have more bass bigger base unit. Men and Women hear differently women thinner membranes Men thicker, one argument, another being bass in particular is not only heard but also felt.  So the argument being some frequencies are also felt. Therefore the full frequency range is prefered rather then the frequency only heard by the human ear.

Volume pods work usually in two ways 0-11 a linear increase and decrease. Some have unity positions mid way, but work the same way left to decrease and right to increase. Unity being the mid point. My unit has no gradual decrease/increase with mic volume it just starts at mid point and increases / decreases gain levels, another words the left side of mid point is useless.

OK talked with Bose and as usual the customer service is superb. Volume pod is designed to handle a very wide spectrum potential meter for input and output. First half of unity for things like mixers latter half for mics. Now decreasing unity is not really decreasing volume with that said a low impedance mic will be reduced. I could attempt to quote the tech guy but do not want to misrepresent what he said. Long and short of it the mic should not cut off totally below the unity mark. This unit puts out about 40 watts for a busking amp this is good and would not need any more. Some cities do not allow for amps on the city streets. H. Rick it would aid in your understanding a bit more if you started from the beginning of this forum and read through the conversations as they add many links with specs. The tone match system works better with the L1 systems, I suspect some tweaking will take place. As for the loud conversation see below: 

I" got this from The Bose Professional Facebook page.

"The S1 system runs at 40 watts. It sounds small but we wanted to make the S1 as efficient as possible to achieve the best possible performance for it's size, especially if you are using the optional battery. The S1 has a 3-element array so you get more coverage and SPL, and since the drivers are precisely matched to the Class-D amp inside and controlled by Bose DSP, you can expect surprisingly big sound for it size. "

 

Sorry Rick I mean't to say many answers to your thoughts can be found in some of the links within this discussion on the S1. I get a bit impatient with the need for volume over sound quality.  A whole lot of technical information also linked.   

Hi ccc,

If you haven't already packed up your S1 and shipped it off, try this.

With the unit on and a your mic in place, start with mic channel volume at extreme left, slowly turn it up while tapping on the mic screen and watch the signal present indicator on the channel to see when it lights up. Where is the dial pointing?

On my S1, I tried this with three different mics, an Audix OM 5, an EV N/D 767a and an older AKG D190E and signal present was indicated by all three in the 8:30 to 9:00 position on the dial. At 10:00 the intensity of the tap could be greatly reduced and the indicator was brightly lit.

I got the same results on both channels in all three positions of the ToneMatch selector.

Now, I'm not trying to say that the left side is usable with a mic. When singing into the mic at this low level my natural voice is as loud if not louder than the S1 output, but with this input design, I think that is normal. The range that the channel becomes usable with a mic begins at the detent at 12:00.

My normal practice level is achieved with the dial at about 1:00. If I were in a gigging situation I would have my lips closer to the mic and would pick up 10 or 15 db without changing the dial.

O..

 

"On the subject of mic level;

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think what we find on the S1 is not that unusual for  a mixer channel that has both mic and line level inputs, but no trim control. The volume control is designed to add gain at a rate that either input level can be accommodated, and both can be brought to performance level within the permitted travel. It is not necessary that the controls match position for guitar and vocal mic, only that the output levels can be adjusted so that each are at the volume required for performance."

Yes that sounds about right. This can be highly limiting in the ability of versatility. Like turning the mic down from the unity level. Obviously the instrument gain on the left side (line) works fine for controlling output volume incrementally. I have  tried an instrument beyond the unity point and it became incrementally louder and louder although I discovered the speaker developed a low end rumble at high levels. Another words the volume knob acted as one would expect all the way up or in this case to the right of unity. Not sure what is going on with the rumble in the speaker at high levels. It is the mic inputs that has issues and to my mind should act the same as the instrument increasing incrementally in volume from 0 to unity to the full 12 as the instrument does. Not indicating the volume level should be the same but the action should be the same. I am thinking Bose assumes a practice amp for home /apartment use will only be used for instruments and not vocal practice with instrument because vocals can not be brought down below unity. Performance venue can only be the size allotted by the limited mic output.  

"

"Also, the volume does make a significant jump from almost not hearing anything to pretty loud once it hits the half way point. For me, so far, this hasn't been a problem, but it could be under the wrong conditions."

My unit on the normal switch mode has very little volume left of unity. At the 0 point on the left no sound the as you turn the volume knob toward unity it becomes audible but barely, at unity it jumps to an audible range just above normal speaking range. It then gains as one would aspect in a linear fashion but is limited in it's volume factor. Bose has explained to be how the first (left) half of the unity point is aimed for high gain, and the right half for low like mics. Not going to go into detail on this conversation I would be writing all day. 

Then moved the switch to guitar mode, the same as the normal mode on both channels.

Again moved the switch to the mic mode no sound at all on the left side of unity. Once it hit unity the sound became audible at a very specific volume level. It would increase in gain level as one would expect but again is limited to output.

My personal feelings on this is that it is a design flaw. 
Oldghm posted:

Hi ccc,

If you haven't already packed up your S1 and shipped it off, try this.

With the unit on and a your mic in place, start with mic channel volume at extreme left, slowly turn it up while tapping on the mic screen and watch the signal present indicator on the channel to see when it lights up. Where is the dial pointing?

On my S1, I tried this with three different mics, an Audix OM 5, an EV N/D 767a and an older AKG D190E and signal present was indicated by all three in the 8:30 to 9:00 position on the dial. At 10:00 the intensity of the tap could be greatly reduced and the indicator was brightly lit.

I got the same results on both channels in all three positions of the ToneMatch selector.

Now, I'm not trying to say that the left side is usable with a mic. When singing into the mic at this low level my natural voice is as loud if not louder than the S1 output, but with this input design, I think that is normal. The range that the channel becomes usable with a mic begins at the detent at 12:00.

My normal practice level is achieved with the dial at about 1:00. If I were in a gigging situation I would have my lips closer to the mic and would pick up 10 or 15 db without changing the dial.

O..

 

Yes I have noticed that and had tried it the thumping. I think we are about the same on that my biggest problem is in mic position on the tone match. I could live with the fact that the mic could only respond at unity level at a certain volume but can I adjust to the no audible sound what so ever on the unity side for my sm58. This is why I wanted to know if this was a design issue or a singular defect in my unit. I know the SM58 does not have the output dynamics as my 414s, ribbon mics ... but they are all condenser and require some phantom power which bose S1 does not have unlike mixers.

 

ccc posted:

 

My personal feelings on this is that it is a design flaw. 

In order to appreciate the design you might have to think of the single volume control as working two separate inputs. 

The first half of travel is for the line level inputs, and the second half is for mic level inputs. Neither will work well for the other, but both sides work as designed with a proper source.

I just tried my EV mic with an Art MP Studio tube pre. The first half of travel controls the pre output as expected, but past 12:00 goes to overdrive / feedback immediately.

There might be a little difference in sound because of tube warmth but it is negligible and not worth the hassle of additional equipment.

Either way, with or without the tube pre, I cannot utilize all the volume that is available and still utilize the S1 as a monitor. In order to crank it all the way up without feedback I have to put considerable distance between the S1 and the mic and point them in different directions. At that point the S1 is not being used as designed. 

O..

An added note. 

My usual guitars have an on board preamp with volume control. I put the S1 volume in the 12:00 detent and make all volume adjustments on the guitar. The guitars do not have eq so I use the ToneMatch preset and make minor adjustments on the S1 channel to suit personal taste.

 

A4D2422D-F57D-4811-A8A8-FF3BA8D33031KHHello,I received my S1 2 weeks ago. Sweetwater $599 with battery included. Plus free shipping and no tax(NY). I see earlier posts said it didn’t come with a battery but apparently gave a gig bag instead?

I currently use the L1 sys II B2 with T1 tonematch. I purchased the S1 to use at home, at smaller venues where the L1 would be overkill, at venues as a monitor when I needto place the L1 in front of me due to tight quarters and to avoid occassional associated feedback issues.

The first gig I used it at was at at a large Ciderhouse approximately 300 people. I typically use my L1 as a monitor and plug into their sound systems xlr jack..They have a great sound system. The place is usually packed and where I set up is quite far from where i park.Multiple trips humping equipment through the crowd was not fun.

Instead I brought my new S1.I ran my Taylor 814ce >TC Helicon Play acoustic > T1 Tonematch> S1> House system.. I used the S1 in front of me on the floor as a monitor. All I can say is “AWESOME”! It worked out great.Easy to carry,super fast setup, and sounded great.

The 2nd gig I used at a local bar. L1 SysII B2 > T1 ToneMatch> S1. In this case I had the L1 in front of me to the side and the S1 on the floor facing me as a monitor.

Again same result.Sounded great and worked out just as I hoped..

I couldn’t be more pleased with the product! Kudos to Bose..

I do have some connectivity questions regarding my setup?

Would this be the right thread topic to ask?

Steve

 

 

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Hi Steve,

It's nice to see you again.

Thanks for the picture and the gig reports about your first couple of times out with the S1 Pro. It sounds like it is serving you well.

Steves Off The Couch posted:


✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄

I do have some connectivity questions regarding my setup?

Would this be the right thread topic to ask?

Steve

 

 



If you have questions about your S1 Pro or setup, please start a new topic.

Follow this link to the top of the S1 Pro Forum

S1 Pro System

Then click the big Post button near the top right.

Thanks!

ST

ST posted:

Hi Steve,

It's nice to see you again.

Thanks for the picture and the gig reports about your first couple of times out with the S1 Pro. It sounds like it is serving you well.

Steves Off The Couch posted:


✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄ - ✂ - ✄

I do have some connectivity questions regarding my setup?

Would this be the right thread topic to ask?

Steve

 

 



If you have questions about your S1 Pro or setup, please start a new topic.

Follow this link to the top of the S1 Pro Forum

S1 Pro System

Then click the big Post button near the top right.

Thanks!

ST

Will do Thanks...

Add Reply

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