L1 Model II

Let's talk about the L1® Portable Line Array Systems

Using proprietary Bose® technology, L1 systems combine  PA and monitors into a single, highly portable unit. The  loudspeaker can be positioned behind or to the side —and you hear what the audience hears.

Highly portable PA and monitor combined for solo performers, DJs and general-purpose use. Fixed vertical control with 180° horizontal coverage Reduced vulnerability to feedback.

Three systems to choose from (Compact, Model 1S, Model II)
Two passive bass module options (B1 or B2)
Consistent coverage and tonal balance, portability and easy setup.

I just picked up a B2. I have another on order. This is a game changer folks. WOW!!! Even on Normal I notice a huge difference in prgram material. It sounds like a nice big powered sub. Of course your EQ settings should be able to control the low end. I just installed the update but \i have to go out I'll check out the eq swtiches when \i get back
OK so I've updated both my PS2s. I didn't want to figure out which one would work with the B2. Plus as I said when I picked this one up I ordered another immediately.

I got a little bit of a chance to run some recorded music through it and switch through the 3 settings. You might think normal would equal what you would get with a couple or 4 B1's but it's still more bass heavy than you would be used to using B1s. I am thinking that's why it's recommended for bass guitar and kick drum. It really thumps.

on the "+" setting even more low end it's unbelievable what a difference this thing makes to the model II system. I think the DJs are all going to be very happy campers now. No one os going to be talking about adding this or that powered sub anymore. The B2 is here.

And the beauty of it all? You can still put it on the "-" setting and get a more balanced type sound that you are used to. I was initially concerned because I really do like to be able to control the bass for things like acoustic guitar where some of those lower strings can start really resonating in certain frequencies. I'm not sure if the "-" setting is the equivalent to B1 type bass response or if it's somewhere between "-" and normal but at least it can be tamed down nicely before you even have to start touching any EQ. And speaking of which if you put it on "-" but then put it on DJ High Volume it still kicks out really nice bass and DJ Low Volume kicks out even more bass. I just tried those two settings and flat. I never touched the EQ at all. So there are lots of combinations now to dial in the bass sound you want before you even touch EQ.

Like I said a few posts ago this is a real game changer, the B2 really delivers the bass I am hugely impressed, I can get my familiar L1 sound but I have the option to kick out loads more bass.

As I said I have another on order. I am going to see how just 2 sound one with each L1 and then maybe 2 on one side and 2 B1's on the other before I decide what I will finally want I would need a second packlite if I end up with a total of 4. I would love it if I only needed 2 total. There was that write up that was linked last night(??) in which it stated that 1 B2 could replace 4 B1s. I'm inclined now to think that is totally within the realm of possibility but it would be great to get an official word on that from Bose, or more likely ST, who gives us most of the valuable info the quickest.

Lastly I have a gig at a decent sized club tomorrow night, it's always packed and noisy there so I'll be able to really see what this can do for us. At this club the manager just gives us an ipod filled with dance music to play through our system between sets. I'm just going to play it through my side with the B2 and crank it and see how the bass fills the club, I may flip the switch for that, although at the club I won't be able to experiment with that after the music is going. When you flick the '+' 'Normal' '-' switch the sound is muted for a second or two while the Bose does it's internal magical adjustments. I'll report back after the gig.
Ok so there's 2 threads with this title. I read through the other one and saw that ST actually said that the "+" setting is equivalent to 4 B1s. This is exciting news. I may have a chance to test out that theory tomorrow and see how close it is. To my ear at least with recorded music, the B2 kicks out more low end thump that 4 B1s but I wasn't sure how it would carry since I'm testing this out in my house. Maybe this close up it's more bassy but as you get out farther it will be comparable to 4 B1s.
Tomorrow night I will have 4 B1s on one side and 1 B2 on the other. If we can get a half decent sound check in I will try the electronic kit through one side then the other and try to listen from different distances to see what I can figure out. I will be crazy happy if 1 B2 really can do the job of 4 B1s just imagine what 4 B2s could do. Maybe those big outdoor gigs become a possibility. ????
Well I'm back from the first gig with the B2. It's late but I'm excited and I want to get this out of my system before I hit the sack.
If I had to make a 3 word review on the B2 it would simply be "THANK YOU BOSE".

This one addition to my model II's revolutionized the sound of our band and I can't wait to get another one for the other side. We had a great gig tonight mainly because we had the best sound ever. I had the B2 on my side and 4 B1s on the other we set up the drums as quickly as possible and I switched the drums between the L1 with the B2 and the L1 with the 4 B1s. I set everything on the T1s identical.

The official word is that with the B2 on "+" mode you get equivalent performance to 4 B1s. Let me tell you, with electronic drums anyway, the B2 out performed the 4 B1s in normal mode, plus mode and was equal in "-" mode. IMHO Bose is being modest when they give the estimates of "-" = 1 B1, "normal" = 2 and "+" = 4. Needless to say the drums went through the side with the B2. Seriously, no comparison. We ended up putting the drums through DJ flat. We did put the B2 on "+" mode and although it might sound counter intuitive dialled the bass back on the zEQ probably about 5db. It still gave a nice heavy thump to the kick drum but nice punch as well and it made all the other drums nice and clear too. So it was my vocal mic, the drummers vocal mic, the drums and my guitar through the L1 with the B2. The other guitar, the bass guitar and the bass guitar player's vocal mic through the other L1 with 4 B1s.

My bass player was quite disappointed that he didn't get to play through the B2. He commented that even the vocals sounded better though the B2 side. I have to agree, admittedly I dialled back the bass on the zEQ on both mics and my guitar as well as the drums to compensated for being in "+" mode but it worked great and we seemed to have a lot of headroom. There's just so much bottom end on tap.

I'm really glad that I ordered another B2 when I picked up this one yesterday. I don't imagine I'll be taking more than 2 B2s to any gigs I think one per side will kill and it will definitely be faster set up and tear down. And a smaller footprint on the stage.

So again "THANK YOU BOSE"
Litesnsirens: Thanks for taking the time to give us the real-world A/B test update. Really appreciate it... I love it when they under-promise, and over-deliver. B2 - I think I'm sold!

ST - Thanks for all of your work, and updates, especially while waiting for at-Bose-guys to respond. I know they're always swamped during new product launches, and I just really appreciate you running down answers and solid info for us.
Hi Litesnsirens,
Thanks for your review, following your posts these last two years, I find your observations to be right on track.
Do you think the B2 offers any more of that elusive "chest thumping frequency" that so many ask for?

I ask because I remember back in the day when the Packlite/2-B1 package came out, and gave us drummers more bass "boom" rather than punch, and it seemed out of control until the advent of the T1's Kick Gate.

I would prefer NOT to use the kick gate, as it cuts off too much of the envelope, and I wonder if we had more of the 'punch' frequency, could we do without the gate.

I realize your review was with E-drums, which is a different animal, but just from what your ears told you, is there more punch?
quote:
Originally posted by shawn smith:
Litesnsirens: Thanks for taking the time to give us the real-world A/B test update. Really appreciate it... I love it when they under-promise, and over-deliver. B2 - I think I'm sold!

ST - Thanks for all of your work, and updates, especially while waiting for at-Bose-guys to respond. I know they're always swamped during new product launches, and I just really appreciate you running down answers and solid info for us.


Shawn, no problem. I am ecstatic about this new product so it wasn't really a bother to do the review, it was more that I couldn't contain myself.

I would also like to thank ST for all his hard work, it's unbelievable how much he gives of himself to this forum. All the work to update the wiki and how fast all that stuff went up there blows my mind. I'm thankful to everyone on here for all the great advice and tips I have received in the last 2 years since I went Bose. But ST goes above and beyond. So thanks again my friend!!
Hey Pete, absolutely more punch. That said, as opposed to a gate we wound up dialling back the bass on the zEQ to get more definition from the kick. I noticed the chest thump right away but my other guitar player was the first to voice it.

I've asked in previous discussions about how to get good kick sounds when we used to mic an actual kick. I've also mentioned that while my drummer has gone along with the Bose thing because in weighing it out the clarity on everything else and the ease of use out-weighed what he always thought was lacking in the drums. And he has been playing through 4 B1's for over a year now. But last night he was in heaven. He was always trying to get me to aim the 4 B1's kind of in his direction and I would always be telling him I don't the those frequencies are directional enough to make any difference. OR he would be trying to get himself set up far enough forward to try to hear it better.
This isn't an issue with the B2, what he was looking for all along was the feeling of that bottom end power, we didn't have to do any point of speakers or anything special all we had to do was use the B2. So from a drummer's perspective I think the B2 is a must. As I said before, I think the DJs are going to be very happy with the B2 as well. I think even DJs using Model Is or Classics are going to be happy in normal mode the B2 will crank out chest thumping bass far better than 4 B1s.
Thanks for that extra information Lites, and I'm with you guys in saying...thanks to
quote:
ST for all his hard work, it's unbelievable how much he gives of himself to this forum. All the work to update the wiki and how fast all that stuff went up there blows my mind. I'm thankful to everyone on here for all the great advice and tips I have received in the last 2 years since I went Bose. But ST goes above and beyond. So thanks again my friend!!
I had a chance to compare the B2 with the B1 on a couple of occasions since it's release. Unfortunately, the bass I heard from the B2 module sounded muddier than the B1 setup. No doubt there was more bass, but it wasn't as smooth sounding as the same setup with 2 B1s.
B2 Bass Module compared to 4 B1s.
I just spent an hour playing my trusty old 77 Musicman Stingray Bass. It's fretless with a D-Dropper.

I set things up so that I could easily switch between

  • One B2 on a Model 1S
  • Four B1s on a Model II
    o - Two B1s attached directly to the Model II Power Stand
    o - Two B1s connected via the Bass Line OUT and the PackLite amp


Connections

  • Bass Guitar to T1® number 1, Channel 1
  • T1® number 1, Channel 1 Preamp Out to T1® Number 2, Channel 1
  • I used the Prefs / Input Level to set the input the levels the same on both T1®s
  • I used the Prefs / Output Level to set the output levels the same on both T1®s
  • Set both T1®s to Preset: Active Bass
  • Switched between the 4 B1s to the B2 by alternately muting the input channels


Here's what I heard:

  • The B2 on the Normal setting sounded very similar to 4 B1s, but without test instruments, I can add only that the B2 seemed a little louder.
  • The B2 on the + setting sounded louder than it did on the Normal setting.


Let's put this in context: I'm not a bassist, nor a connoisseur of bass tones, so that's why I don't want to use words like fuller, punchier, smoother, clearer, or muddier.

Also - it was a fretless bass and so the attacks as I was playing were soft.

What I can tell you is that if I were a bassist, I would definitely want to check out the B2. It is (to my ear) at least as loud as four B1s with respect to volume, when on the Normal setting, and quite noticeably louder when on the + plus setting.

If I was a drummer, I would want to spend some serious time checking this out too.
@musicnmotion
Yes, it's true there is more bass to deal with and if you are just using settings as you did with the B1(s), you probably aren't going to get the optimum sound. I think this is reasonable, it's no different than if I had a guitar amp head plugged into a single 10" speaker cabinet tweaked it and used it and then plugged it into a 4 X 12" speaker cabinet. I wouldn't expect that I would be getting the optimum tone without touching any of the controls on the amp head. It stands to reason and I fully expected it. I reduced the bass on the zEQ for every channel I had going through the B2. My other option would be to use "-" mode if I simply wanted bass response similar to the B1s. You can enjoy the added bass response the B2 offers in 'normal' and '+' modes but you have to be prepared to tweak some settings to get it focused. And I might add for the most part some simple twists on the zEQ will do the trick. But I'm not ruling out that finding a more appropriate tone match setting might be another option. Who knows maybe there will be tonematch updates designed for use with the B2.

@AJ
1) You have a few options - you just use the B2 in "normal" mode
2) Borrow a friend's tonematch to update your powerstand firmware with it
3) I believe ST posted earlier in this thread that GC and other Bose dealers are offering Bose users to bring in their power stands to be updated. (page 2 of this thread 3rd post down)
Ok now here is a question that has been kind of gnawing at me. My bass player, drummer and myself all felt there was an improvement to our vocal sound when using the B2. It was evident right when we plugged in and started checking levels.

But vocals don't seem to be in the range that could benefit from added bass output. So is it placebo effect? Could it be an increase in headroom? Does the voice create inaudible lower overtones that added bass output would affect? Is there some other reason that I'm not thinking of?
Hi Litesnsirens,

Great question.


quote:
Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
Ok now here is a question that has been kind of gnawing at me. My bass player, drummer and myself all felt there was an improvement to our vocal sound when using the B2. It was evident right when we plugged in and started checking levels.

But vocals don't seem to be in the range that could benefit from added bass output.

The crossover between the Cylindrical Radiator® and the B1 or B2 is at 200 Hz.

200 Hz is pretty much your open G string on your guitar. Do your vocals go below that? Mine do.

Your open low E string is about 80 Hz. G on the low E string is about 100 Hz. Does that help to put things in perspective?
quote:

So is it placebo effect?

I think that you are hearing something real.
quote:



Could it be an increase in headroom? Does the voice create inaudible lower overtones that added bass output would affect? Is there some other reason that I'm not thinking of?


Does that help?


Check this out.


--∈∞ΘΞ Please click the picture for more details ΞΘ∞∋--
Well that makes me feel better. Thanks ST. That's a really interesting chart and I guess it stands to reason if A 440 sounds as high as it does that I should have been able to put the vocal range of humans into perspective.

I think I knew that crossover range but I think it just plays tricks with your thinking when you think "sub" woofer. Most subs from most companies cross somewhere between 100 and 200 but I never put into perspective what my lower range might cover. And certainly if the voice can hit notes that low there are harmonic frequencies that would be affected be the subs most of the time during a vocal performance.
Back when I first got my Packlite/2-B1 package, I noticed that my E-drum snare/toms sounded way fuller with the added low end.
In an odd way, even the cymbals sounded better, so I'd agree that yes, everything benefits from the added low end.
I did have to roll a bit of lows off my Audix OM5 when using 4-B1s, but I've now found that I like my vocal set that way even with two.
Backup vocals blend better without all the low end.
Glad you joined in Drumr, it's good to find others have similar experiences. I rolled of the bass on the vocals based on what I had to do to the drums thinking all things equal, that was the amount to get sort of the eq curve that I am used to. I like a nice tight sound, nothing to flubby, but I really do appreciate the bigger, pumped up on steroids, sound that the B2 brings to the model 2.
I may play with the vocals a bit more going forward maybe they will be fine with a little more bass. It was really just a guess as it was really a last minute decision to use the B2 on the "+" setting. Another thing I wanted to be cautious of is that even when I am not singing the green light on my channel is lighting up so I'm sure Kick Snare and all other loud instruments are coming through my mic and going back into the system again. So maybe rolling off the mic helps keep the low end of the original drums sound clean??

I'll play around as I get more experience with the B2, all I know is that I can't wait to get the second B2 and get out there and play more gigs I'm really stoked about the sound of the L1 now more than ever before.
Hi Shawn,

Here are the sizes from taken from the Model 1S Owners' Guide available here: L1® Model 1S

B1 bass module: 15''H x 10¼''W x 17¾''D 
(38.0 cm x 26.0 cm x 45.0 cm)
25.1 lb 
(11.4 kg)
B2 bass module: 23.4''H x 13.31''W x 18.9''D
(59.4 cm x 33.8 cm x 48 cm)
45 lb
(20.41 kg)

So the difference is
18.90" - 17.75" or 1.15"
Hi Brian,

quote:
Originally posted by BrianBeveridge:
quote:
So the difference is
18.90" - 17.75" or 1.15"


So ST are you going to change your avatar to a B2? Smile

Cheers!

Brian


Probably not.

Playing solo (acoustic oriented gigs) I've been just fine with a single B1 and only rarely have I brought 2 B1s for that kind of show.

Playing in a band (typically electric guitar), the rhythm section holds down the low end. I personally haven't needed more low end because of where I sit in the mix.

I hope that the Drummer and Bassist in the band will be using B2s.

I could see using the B2 when I'm doing my full-blown solo show running my VG-99 rig (Virtual Guitar) because for that I often have the bottom two strings set as bass guitar strings.

But for two thirds of my shows... even though I am very very impressed with the B2, I'll probably stick to a single B1.
Hi Litesnsirens

I'm answering here in the B2 Live discussion because the other thread is for the folks who haven't got theirs yet.

Here's a beauty shot. I just ran this set up full out on my Model II. You can't see it in the picture, but the PackLite is sitting on top.



quote:
Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
That looks really cool ST, did you test it out for sound?




Bose did a nice job here because if you get all the feet to match up on the B1s, they fit together. Look at the Packlite and the spot just below the Bose Logo. The B1 feet are interlocked (despite the appearance of a gap)



The two B1s nestle between the feet of the B2.

Left side:



Right side:



Nothing moves or rattles.

As for the sound, well I don't have two B2s so I can't comment on that.

Two B1s and a B2:

For playing prererecorded music, they sound different when you change the switch on the B2. I think that the switch position is changing the EQ on the Model II Power Stand Bass Line Out, and that would make sense because the likely scenario is that if you were using the Bass Line Out, you would be running through a PackLite to another B2.

The good news is that I could not get the A1 and two B1s to break up or distort no matter how loud I ran the system. Too much bass in any situation makes me feel queasy, and after 30 minutes of high volum testing I'm sitting here in absolute silence trying to recover. Lunch is going to be delayed today.

Various things I tried:

  • B2 alone, no additional B1s
    Sounds great
    Different switch positions make a difference, but for live music, I think I'll stick to "Normal" or "-" if I find that I'm getting too much low end to work nicely with my acoustic guitar or big body jazz boxes.



    Below this point are results for B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp.

  • B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to +
    For me, likely only for pre-recorded club music

  • B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to Normal with ToneMatch® Preset 57
    Fine for low volume prerecorded music.

  • B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to Normal with ToneMatch® Preset 58
    Fine but bordering on too much bass emphasis on me.

  • B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to + with ToneMatch® Preset 57
    Okay, but I preferred it with the switch in the Normal position.

  • B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to + with ToneMatch® Preset 58
    I ran this flat out full volume with so heavy pre-recorded music and I found the bass overwhelming.



Litesnsirens, you've got enough gear to try out these combinations. What do you think?
Hey ST, if I understand properly, the first thing you tried is B2 alone and the rest of the list is B2 with 2 B1s. I believe I have it right, and I would have to say based on what you've posted that those are, in general, the same assessments that I have made using only the B2. So I'm guessing that it's probably very similar in terms of bass EQ but maybe just a little more???

Perhaps, although the B1s are susceptible to the EQ curve as decided by the B2 switch, the same logic applies in terms of plugging something into the bass line out of the powerstand in terms of reducing the output to compensate and maintain the integrity of the overall EQ.

I will definitely be doing some testing with my gear, in terms of loading up the B1s and B2s but I think I will wait until I have my second B2 (hopefully soon). I'd like to compare 2 B2s to 1 B2 and to a B2 and 2 B1s. I hope that isn't getting to B-confusing.

I still have 4 B1s but when the other B2 arrives at Long and McQuade I will be sitting with 2 B2s 2 B1s and a packlite. So I will be able to try a bunch of combinations.

Like you, I was quite concerned about how the extra bass would react on acoustic guitar patches using my GR-55 guitar synth. And even to some extent my electric guitar patches. But even with the B2 in plus position, which is what we set it on for our show on Friday night, I was able get great tone on everything using the zEQ. So I no longer have any fears about not owning any B1s. It's really going to come down to how many B2s will I end up owning or needing. Well I guess you never voiced any concerns but did mention that you would most likely just use a single B1. And I have to agree for single guitar, electric or acoustic and vocals a single B1 still fits the bill. BUT, as I mentioned somewhere on this forum, we all thought the vocals sounded better through the B2, and with the use of some EQ my acoustic patches sounded great, probably the best they've sounded since I got the GR-55.

So at this point, for me, if it's worth taking the L1 it's worth taking the B2. I found it quite easy to dial good sound with the B2 even in the most extreme plus mode. Maybe there will be EQ adjustments moving forward, maybe not, but I think I will get a more consistent sound going with one or the other rather than back and forth.

I actually really found that the EQ between 1, 2 or 4 B1s did in fact remain very consistent just as Bose claimed, but there is a huge difference between any number of B1's and B2s. That said in minus mode I could still get very close to the B1 sound.

Anyway, I will do the testing when the second B2 arrives and I will report my impressions.
Hi Litesnsirens,

quote:
Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
Hey ST, if I understand properly, the first thing you tried is B2 alone and the rest of the list is B2 with 2 B1s.


You've got it.

Thanks for drawing that ambiguity to my attention. I've modified my post above to make what was going on more apparent.
quote:
Originally posted by musicnmotion:
I had a chance to compare the B2 with the B1 on a couple of occasions since it's release. Unfortunately, the bass I heard from the B2 module sounded muddier than the B1 setup. No doubt there was more bass, but it wasn't as smooth sounding as the same setup with 2 B1s.


In my experience what people perceive as "mud" is the frequency range way down in the low double-digits. I like to say that in Hollywood, the only time they go to 20 Hz is when dinosaurs are stomping around.

"Punch" is about 120 Hz or so. Try rolling off the bass EQ just slightly and see what it does. A little tweak can make a big difference.

All this is highly subjective, of course, and results depend on your choice of material. A lot of current club/dance music leans heavily on those low frequencies.
Andrew, that is exactly what I had to do. We were actually wanting more thump/punch on the kick drum. Once the B2 arrived we had more than we wanted. But it's nice to have it on tap, it's very easy with the T1 to dial in a great sound. It was quite interesting, as I listened and thought it was very cool to feel and hear, there was so much bottom end that the kick kind of sounded almost like an old TR808, just rolling the bass down a bit and the dust started coming off the kick and it started to shine. Then a bit of a tweak on the middle and treble to get the hats and cymbals sounding good and the whole kit was balanced and sounded amazing.
Hi Drumr Pete,

Did I miss it?

What do you think: Does the B2 perform like four B1s?

quote:
Originally posted by Drumr:
The B2 showed up today, and i tried it out for a bit over lunch hour.
I really wanted to write a report about the B2 and my E-drums, but really can not at this point.
As Litesnsirens said before, "it's a game changer", and that it is.

But I will say that the strangest thing I experienced was my vocal thru an OM5 on the B2 "Normal" setting.
It took me aback, and reminded me of the sound of my voice in the 70s thru our old Altec Voice of the Theaters!
Big sounding, bassier, bordering on hollow, but not in a bad way mostly.
Something about larger speaker diameters I'm guessing, like I could hear the bigger speaker.

I really can't sort out what I heard, yet.
This is going to take some adjustment.
I figured this would be the thread to post this in since I was doing some testing. I stopped by Long and McQuade today to pick up my second B2. I took both B2s and the two B1s that I still have left into my basement for a little testing. I just used some tunes off my iPhone for testing as I just wanted to see the difference between a single B2 and two of them on the same tower. And also to see if the switch on the second B2 would have any effect on the sound and finally, it was my intention to see how it sounded with a B2 and two B1s and if I would have the same opinion as ST. I never got to the final test, I think the first test sort of made it redundant and at the very least unimportant to me. I can rely, and actually quite agree with ST's test of the same set up.

So, first B2 goes into the powerstand and second one from the bass output to the packlite and to the second B2 (exactly as you would if hooking up 4 B1s). As I expected, the switch on the second B2 does nothing. The switch activates mechanics inside the power stand and I assume it does so only through neutrik connection. I have to admit as I sit here typing it didn't occur to me to see what would happen if I unplugged the neutrik cable so that the only B2 would be the one connected through the packlite. It's safe to say though that the power stand can only be in one mode at a time so Neutrik overrides bass line out to say the very least.

I guess being a bit of a scatter brain tonight my first test showed (wrongly, as you will see) a big difference between one and two B2s. That's because as the music was playing I simply powered down the packlite and wow big bass drop-off. Of course as most of you have probably caught right away, "yes dummy, but you still have a cable plugged into the bass line out so with the packlite turned off you're cutting 6db from the remaining B2." And you all of course are right. At least give me points for coming on here and admitting that.

So for the second test, turn packlite back on start the music, try to get a real good feel for the sound and the feeling of the bottom end and then I stepped in, pulled the 1/4" balanced cable out of the bass line out on the powerstand, and got back to my previous position to try to determine if I could feel or hear any difference. And the verdict? NOT REALLY !! With the 1/4" connection dropping all bass by 6db it was pretty much imperceivable to me. So, I didn't think there was much reason for me to try the same test with the 2 B1's in place of the second B2. Reasons as follows; if plugging a second B2 into the bass line out give no perceivable difference due to the 6db drop, and IMHO the B2 not only outperforms 2 B1s but also 4 B1s (to my ear in both normal and plus mode) then my guess is that plugging them in will drop the bass by 6 db but 2 B1s combo won't be able to make up the same difference that a second B2 can. So in theory a single B2 would put out more bass than a B2 and 2 B1's. Damn, now that I'm talking myself through this I'm starting to feel like I have to test it out. But the theory stands to reason doesn't it? I'm probably going to go test it out... I mean now I just gotta know.

I would have thought before remembering the 6db drop that 4 X 10" speakers would push more air than 2 X 10", and they will, unless you purposely cut the volume of all the units to make up for what they would have done. So at this point I don't see any advantage to owning 4 B2s and I won't go that route now that I have tested it. I think now that we are dealing with this monster called "B2", in order to notice any headroom difference you would have to get the L1 up to levels that are probably even beyond the capabilities of the stick itself and if you use them behind you in a band situation probably at levels that would cause feedback. Or put in different terms, unless you are trying to use your system beyond what the L1 is spec'd for (ie;audiences of 500 people) and likely far beyond, you wouldn't be able to push the unit to a point where the extra B2 would offer more headroom. Again a bit of reasoning, I have in the past used a couple of Yorkville 720P subs for outdoor shows in front of big crowds. They use 2X10" speakers each and they are rated at 700+ watts each, but I don't think they outperform the B2 plugged into the power stand. They are twice as heavy though, so there's that. So I'm thinking if they can do the job for a big outdoor concert then 2 B2s should perform equally as well. So what level do you need to get to that requires 4, especially when you would probably have to come close to diming everything to have the extra B2s help.

So as far as agreeing with ST's assessment of his test, I agreed with it before trying this because as I wrote above it was pretty much my findings with a single B2. While it remains to be seen whether the addition of 2 B1s actually reduces the bass as compared to the B2 on it's own, I think that as far as uses for the different settings they are going to follow pretty closely that of a single B2.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it so far. I'm probably going to go do the other testing just to prove a theory.
You have to admit, although it doesn't make much sonic difference 2 B2s stacked together looks pretty menacing.

I think I did a little damage to my ears doing this testing, my right ear is aching a bit now. However, it's all in the name of science. So a little further testing.

First off the plus, normal, minus switches only work through the neutrik connection into the power stand, so if anyone had any plans of using these with another system, you probably can, you just won't get use of the switch.

Secondly I did the test with the single B2 and 2 B1s run off the packlite through the single system. It actually does sound pretty good. I did notice an increase in bass when unplugging the 1/4" balanced cable between the packlite and the power stand. B2 on it's own does offer a little more bass, however it wasn't a hugely significant difference and in fact some people might actually prefer the slightly more controlled bass tone but in my opinion that's a lot to go through just to achieve something that could do simply by making some minor adjustments on the tone match. I mean you aren't getting any more volume from the set up so just turn down the bass a db or two and you'll be there. I did the test in both normal and plus modes with the same findings. My expectation would be with the B2 in minus mode there would be less to no difference.

So those are my findings anyway, no more testing the ears can't take it. I will either sell off the packlite and remaining B1s or trade them in on something else completely, 2 B2s is as much as I will ever need, it'll be quicker to set up with less connections to make and I really can't wait to get to the next gig to try one on each system.
Hi all,
fantastic info on this thread.Thanks for everyone's efforts.
I would like to know if any Bass Guitarists have used the B2 with an L1II. I would really like to hear from guys who play live and have a good idea about what's required on medium size stages in rooms anywhere up to 100-400 people. I would just run a line out of the T1 to the desk for the house pa sound, so my primary concern is stage sound. I have used the L1II as a bass rig for gigs, but our keyboard player said 2 B1s lacked the punch needed. I was reasonable happy, as was my back! But I've got a feeling the B2 will deliver that 'punch' So Bassists out there,( I spotted an avatar with a MM Bongo ) can you help. btw On stage I play a Sandberg California VT5 bass over a Roland D-Bass 2x10 normally. Thanks. John
[With apologies to John Morrell]

ST, Lites, et al,

After a bit more testing, I find too that adding a Packlite & 2-B1s to my Model II with a B2 on the Neutrik output, added no perceivable benefit.
However, I truly am enjoying the sound of the B2 in my studio at Normal setting.
Preferable to the 2-B1s, and has much more bass when used in '+' mode, but is too much for the room.
Hi All,

It's really exciting to hear about all the B2 testing. I wanted to clarify a few things on the technical side.

First, when using multiple B2s (with the Model II system), the B2 connected to the powerstand dictates the bass behavior. Meaning the position of this B2 switch controls the overall system bass level.

With repect to second B2 (connected via the Bass Line Out/Packlite), we decided to split the difference and provide users with +3dB of additional bass output and +3db of additional bass headroom. 3dB is substantial so when using a second B2 there should be a nocticable increase in overall bass level.

Hope this helps.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

Craig
Hi Craig,

Thank you for this. It really helps me to understand what I was hearing while testing.

quote:
Originally posted by Craig-at-Bose:
With repect to second B2 (connected via the Bass Line Out/Packlite), we decided to split the difference and provide users with +3dB of additional bass output and +3db of additional bass headroom. 3dB is substantial so when using a second B2 there should be a nocticable increase in overall bass level.


Is this irrespective of the position of the B2 switch?

If so - does that mean that this also affects people with 4 B1s and a PackLite the same way (going from 2 to 4 B1s)?
Hmm, maybe I have to get it up to a significantly higher volume to notice the difference? I had levels up to a level that my right ear was hurting when I finished my testing. I noticed no perceivable difference doing the testing as posted above. Maybe I would have noticed a difference in a smaller sized room at lower levels?? I agree that 3db is substantial but in some ways

But now that I am to understand that technically there is a difference and a difference in headroom could you explain a little further? Just in terms of what that extra bass headroom means to a user. There are different schools in regards to how significant 3db is i.e.; it takes double the power to increase 3db but on the other hand it takes a 3 db increase to to create a perceivable difference to the human ear.

I guess the bottom line is I just want to know beyond my own findings what advantage I could expect. B2 plus packlite is getting close to $1000. A little over if you live somewhere where there's sales tax. So the question becomes is 3 db (the bare minimum threshold of noticeable perception) of increase on frequencies below 200hz worth the extra $1000. I realize this is a subjective thing but what I don't really understand is if the headroom is somehow increased overall across the whole frequency spectrum for some scientific reason that I am not aware of? or are we simply talking 3 db at 200hz and under?

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