Since I believe the PAS is capable of replacing my backline guitar amp with the aid of an amp modeller I figured a comparison/observation thread would be nice. I've been using POD XT Pro and a DigiTech GNX4 for some time so I will type/edit something soon to share my experiences about those in day or two. Y'all are welcome and encouraged to contribute as well.

I should have a Boss GT-6 in studio soon so that will get some test driving results but this next box arrived today and my initial observations follow:

Adrenalinn by Roger Linn. Now this is a different animal. A cross between amp modeller, drum looper and exquisite tempo based effects. When I 1st plugged in the guitar and listened via headphones I was not too impressed with the amp models. Kinda "fizzy" stuff going on in my cans and most of you know how I feel about that. At this point, I was almost ready to pack it up and send back for refund. But, I decided to try it in the PAS and learn the interface. Boy, am I glad I did! The amp models sounded awesome and what's more important they actually felt good under my fingers. I could only detect "good fizz" with the PAS pumping this thing out. The headphone jack was not included with original version so my guess is that the headphone amp isn't very great but the line outputs rock!

Checked all the basics that I'm used to and yep, volume control roll-off cleans things-up a bit, good cleans and fat OD's. Overall a very nice touch/feel playing this unit. It doesn't model stomp boxes or anything like that but it doesn't need to. The amp drive control is more than enough to dial-in a sweet lead tone and then backing the guitar volume down does just what a great amp does. Cleans up a little yet stays fat and sparkly.

So now I'm getting comfortable with the tone and controls so I start a drum loop and learned how to use the tap-tempo function. Very different because it's not a tap at all. Rather, you hold the tempo footswitch for the measure length of the music you wish to synch. Different but cool in it's own way.

Whoa, somebody call a doctor because when you synch this thing to tempo, all kinda great stuff happens. Some of the patches use LFO's to control many different filter, amp, time and modulation parameters. Something about that is very satisfying and helps lend complex sticky/swirling mod/filter stuff to the guitar that just sounds/feels natural and great.

Okay, I realize this may just be a honeymoon period but I'm digging it pretty well and I will keep test driving 'til gig-ready and then figure it out from there. There's a lot here and I'm only scratching the surface but my initial impression is very favorable.

It'll do practically any guitar tone although it doesn't get there like anything else I've ever worked with. But once you get "synch'd" it should put a big smile on your face!
Original Post
Hey Steve, that would be great if you and others contribute your thoughts about the XTL. I guess this is basically a "review" of as many different digital amp modellers as our readers feel like contributing?

Since starting this thread with the newest weapon in my arsenal next I will offer a little review of the oldest:

Yamaha DG Stomp - An old favorite here. Old, as in the design dates back at least to the mid/late 90's but a favorite because of it's ability to do good amp models and a whole range of other duty(s) as well.

The DG Stomp is a 20 bit processor I believe with basic I/O's including SPDIF digital output. Coupled with a foot controller it's a very capable live box. Tuner is okay but not as fine resolution as I personally prefer.

The amp models basically give you 2 voicings (British/American) for each range between clean and distortion sounds. Speaker cab choices are plentiful but fail to do that much IMO. The modulation effects are splendid however and one of the best tremolos I've used in an amp box to date. Cleans are pretty good but as you go into OD/distortion there is some "fizz" or whatever you wish to call that. The A-D/D-A convertors are pretty good for their day but A/B'd with more recent offerings, I can hear a lack of resolution and/or details.

It does well mono but some effects will suffer if not in true stereo. There's no noise gate but you'll find about every other basic guitar effect. The compressor is basic electric guitar fair and it's parameters are not adjustable.

Flexibility is very good however and in the last couple years, I found myself running the DG Stomp in the efx loop of my different tube combo amps with amp/cab models disabled of course. Basically, a volume control and modulation efx solution that works very nicely to this day. It's function as a MIDI controller is very good too.

It sounds good in the PAS but IMO the DSP is just not up to today's amp modeller standards. However, for someone on a limited budget a used ($50-$100) DG Stomp could make a great deal of sense for live use w/PAS.
Boss GT 6

Ugh! I had high expectations for this one but it's just not much of an amp modeller. Pitch efx are outstanding but the FIZZ? Holy cow, it's a nasty hive of bees in there! I tried for an hour or so to make sure I had the best output settings but with that fabulous Roger Linn Adrenalinn sitting there, I finally gave up on the Boss. Not a keeper for sure! 'Glad I saved the boxes.
Line6 POD XT pro

Love/hate your thing? This is the one for you! Gotta great DSP engine and convertors but there are problems. 1st thing is a great clean amp sound but the notes die-off much faster than the tone I hear makes me think they should. Does that make sense? Fiddled with compressor all day/night but no go. Dog just don't hunt. Screws my "feel" all up.

Get into OD/distortion mode and the sustain isn't a problem but there's fizz riding on the guitar tone. Stick that on a PAS and you have a recipe for Tylenol after a gig. Amp models seem great until you keep noticing the same 5-6k "hiss", "crackle", "fizz" (whatever you wanna call it) genetically imprinted on every OD/distortion tone in the thing. Simply unusable for me as a stand-alone amp modeller.

However,due to it's fine audio quality, post mod/delay/reverb efx, cab/mic/room models and ample I/O's it's found a home in my rig but I leave the amp modelling to something else and basically use it as an expensive DI. At least the tuner gets high marks with very precise resolution on the unit display. Which can't be said for the FBV. Weird?
DigiTech GNX4

Well, this has been a fun box to explore. What it lacks in amp models it makes up in so many other areas. Built-in recorder, CF card storage including MP4 playback plus lotsa pitch bending capabilty. Models can be "warped" or blended together. That along with cab tuning helps keep the fizz at arms length. But, it's obviously not the DSP engine sonically of the POD XT. I love it though and flexibility coupled with practical features make it a regular item in my gig box.
So what is a great amp modeller? How can we tell if something's got the "stuff" or not? Well, it's pretty much like a great amp. A great amp sounds/feels great no matter what guitar you use or where you tweak tone parameters. It's simply impossible to screw it up! The same can be said for amp modelling tone. It shouldn't matter what guitar you use or where you set EQ because if it's got the mojo, it's gonna be right with the world regardless of how bright/muddy it is or how you drive the input.

One thing I discovered throughout all of this was that the PAS presets can help determine if you gotta great modeller or not. For example, the Adrenalinn sounded great no matter what preset I selected or how I wished to EQ the tone. Those things changed the timbre of course, but it never sucked away the "life" and explosiveness that gives the Linn box it's unique mojo. Every other unit in my comparison so far is/was easy to mess-up through presets, moon phases, gutar choices, etc. But never the Adrenalinn. Way too cool and I had to buy an Adrenalinn II because this is the tone I can enjoy without my beloved tube amps.

If you like the feel of a real amp, Adrenalinn makes it happen like nothing else I've ever gigged direct. I mean it's STELLAR stuff in this thing and totally what I was looking for. Trouble is, it's not a "conventional" amp box so you must approach it with patience and willingness to accept that stomp boxes, and "normal" names for efx types don't often apply.

No tuner, no balanced outs, mod pedal, inserts, etc. If you judge this box only by sales engineering criteria you'll be disappointed. But, learn the interface and how the presets are arranged by default so that you understand how to add preset efx to the awesome amp tones and you'll be on your way to a gratifying experience.

Already gotta POD XT with floorboard? Great, use that to control program changes via MIDI with the Adrenalinn and get volume control along with some pretty good post efx and in the case of the bean/Pro you will then have balanced outs. I simply disable all amp models and most of the time the cab/mic/speaker as well. The later can sometimes create an interesting effect. Run line-in to the XT from Adrenalinn output and you are ready to gig with a great sounding/feeling package!

However, for simple setups with the PAS the Adrenalinn II is probably enough to get-by just like a small amp/mic rig. The Adrenalinn II can change program patches from the footswitches more easily than the Adrenalinn I. Don't need much more than that and a guitar to get a totally satisfying electric tone going. Oh yeah, did I mention that the Adrenalinn is sturdy yet light weight? Small enough to fit in a gig bag pocket too and with a simple adapter cable it can also run off battery power for truly mobile fun!

Finally, the drum loops will make you smile time and time again. Get a good beat happening, dial-in your sound for the mood and I just can't put the thing down. It's like crack! If you aren't a better player after working with this box for a week, I'll buy it from you. I think it's so good that I wanna own every unit ever made so the competition can't have one!

This is it - get the Adrenalinn II or just a I if you wanna keep it low-key. But I warn you, if you do that, you'll order a II very soon or the upgrade kit to convert I to a II. In fact, I kept my I and I figure it will be extra cool to use 'em both at the same time somewhere down the road.
Hey ASAT, when you started raving about the Adrenalinn, I was ready to chalk it up to the usual "everybody hears things differently" explanation of why one man's tone is another man's trash. But I was intrigued enough to go home and pull out my Adrenalinn (updated to Adrenalinn II specs), which I hadn't touched in a year or more. I had bought it to use on something I was producing that needed some filtery effects, which it does brilliantly, but had thought the amp models were a bit thin and
two-dimensional (it's possible I hadn't revisited the amp models after upgrading the box). My conclusion, after messing with the
amp models for about 40 minutes at lunch today,
is that you're on to something here. The response can really be "spongy" and "spanky" and all of those other nebulous descriptors we use. I was just listening through my studio monitors and haven't had a chance to try it through the PAS yet, but you're right about the lack of fizz and the "feel". I'm anxious to
spend more time with it, as I've been less than
thrilled with the Pod XT direct. I usually use the
bean through an Atomic amp, which really fattens it and filters out a lot of fizz; however, it suffers from the well documented shortcomings of amps on stage. Maybe this Adrenalinn will work better through the Bose...
I checked out the Adrenalinn when it first came out a couple years back, and I was equally impressed with the sound quality. The interface, on the other hand, was so sorely lacking for live application that it rendered the unit completely useless for me. Much like my Yamaha DG Stomp - when it first came out, I felt it was by far the best sounding modeler / emulator available. But the incredibly awkward interface landed it in the closet the minute a more user friendly pedal caught up to their sound quality.

I do think the Adrenalinn models are better than the stock Pod models - but I've been able to write my own patches from scratch with the XT Live that are very close to what I want to hear. Add to that the versatilty and friendly layout of the pedal and it definitely wins over a (slightly) better sounding modeler with a (much more) poorly designed interface, in my book.
quote:
Originally posted by JimR:
Hey ASAT, when you started raving about the Adrenalinn, I was ready to chalk it up to the usual "everybody hears things differently" explanation of why one man's tone is another man's trash. But I was intrigued enough to go home and pull out my Adrenalinn (updated to Adrenalinn II specs), which I hadn't touched in a year or more. I had bought it to use on something I was producing that needed some filtery effects, which it does brilliantly, but had thought the amp models were a bit thin and
two-dimensional (it's possible I hadn't revisited the amp models after upgrading the box). My conclusion, after messing with the
amp models for about 40 minutes at lunch today,
is that you're on to something here. The response can really be "spongy" and "spanky" and all of those other nebulous descriptors we use. I was just listening through my studio monitors and haven't had a chance to try it through the PAS yet, but you're right about the lack of fizz and the "feel". I'm anxious to
spend more time with it, as I've been less than
thrilled with the Pod XT direct. I usually use the
bean through an Atomic amp, which really fattens it and filters out a lot of fizz; however, it suffers from the well documented shortcomings of amps on stage. Maybe this Adrenalinn will work better through the Bose...


You're feeling what I feeling, me thinks. It's weird but with the Adrenalinn, I can jam for a long time switching between full power chords and single note licks/runs without that "sinking feeling" of my level dropping. If that makes sense?

It's totally dope in the PAS. You know how you can assign the drums to R and the guitar to L output jacks? I just do that if I gotta free PAS input. Then I can adjust drum level without messing much with the Adrenalinn drum volume routine.

What's even weirder is how the amp models might not sound all that great when isolated/solo'd but put 'em in a mix or at least with a drum beat and all kinda crazy stuff starts to gel. Plus that nice sponginess gives me a great ride everytime I spank the old ASAT through the Adrenalinn.

So yeah, the interface ain't intended for live duty without external MIDI control but if you got an XT or even an old DG, that's easy enough to setup. The XT is particularly nice because of it's excellent post reverb/mod/delay coupled with the abundance of output types and styles.

For program patch change it doesn't address above 65 on the Adrenalinn but that's not much of a big deal plus, hit bypass on the Linn box and I can kick-in an XT patch or two that I actually like.

GNX4 is equally fine too as a live Adrenalinn interface and the recorder is a great feature too if you get a good groove going. Although, the post reverb and A/D convertors aren't as fine as the XT it still provides XLR outputs, patch/volume control and many different "mixing" options through the matrix.

It looks like Linn has also provided his Adrenalinn I amp model touch to the M-audio Black Box. I'm gonna have to run one of those down next, LOL...
Hey ASAT, it sounds like you and I share the same gear and tone-tweaking addictions. I've been trying to get good DI'd tone for 20 years (been playing for 30+) because of the frustration of how amps sound so different depending on where you're standing. I also coveted the programmability of synths, and wanted to be able to change sounds without a juggling-while-tap-dancing routine. I got the first MIDI tube preamp (ADA MP1) and ran that through a H&K Redbox; then went to a Boogie TriAxis through a 20-20 power amp, into a Groove Tubes Speaker Emulator II, with effects applied after the power amp, and sent directly to the PA (this actually worked well, but was still a little fussy). Then the modelers came out and I went with the VG-8, the Pod, the DG Stomp (as well as the AG and UD Stomps), then the XT, then the XT through the Atomic. All of these things gave quite good results, but the quest is never over to somehow gather the good traits of all of them in one easy package.
For the last year-and-a-half I've been gigging with a female singer (the best I'
ve ever worked with; equal parts Sarah Vaughn
and Janis Joplin, with everything in between as well) For that I'm using a Godin Multiac Jazz, with the Roland output feeding the VG-8, and the acoustic output feeding a Fishman Aura and an Aphex pedal, which then returns to the aux in of the VG-8; the output of the VG-8 goes to a Boss Loop Station and out to the PA. (This is all built into a pedalboard. The top comes off, I plug it in and it's ready to go) I'm able to get good acoustic sounds for rhythm and fingerpicking, and fat hollowbody tone for fingerstyle jazz accompaniment, either of which
I can loop while she's singing and then solo over later in the song with any number of tones from the VG-8. I also use the open tuning capability of the VG for slide breaks in the Bonnie Raitt and Lucinda Williams tunes. It all works remarkably well. The rough part was building up the strenth to play rock and blues solos on acoustic strings (12's).
If you've worked with a VG-8, you know it wants to sound bad. It takes all of your tweaking skills to get it to sound decent, but until recently, it was the only way to do what it did. Now with Variax and Workbench, Line 6 is getting there.
Like a lot of the guys on the Line 6 message
boards, a Roland-ready Variax with passive pickups as well and separate acoustic output sounds like a good idea to me. And then one floor box that can model amps like the Adrenalinn and Pod, acoustics like the Aura, and open tunings like the VG-8, with synth sounds too, and looping capability as well. A guy can dream.......
I should add that the PAS has made getting these sounds out so much easier. I have two double B1 systems, but usually only need one for my rig and the vocalist. We played in the middle of a park last week, and you could here us clearly for a block in every direction. (Even behind us, oddly enough) When local celebs
(Detroit sports stars and news anchors) took the mic, as long as they stayed right on the grill they could be heard clearly through the whole park. This thing really works..........
JimR - It's a crazy journey for sure! BTW - I'm a former member, resigned in good standing, of Detroit Local #5. Lived downtown off Orleans and played a few gigs in the park too! If you ever bump into Ralphe Armstrong, give him a big hello from Joe at the GEM theatre production we worked together. Awesome bass man!

'Never got into the VG8 but I did run Roland synth setup, VG/VR 01 (or something?) for a few years? Hex pup is picky to be sure but I got it tracking and it managed to star in a few productions until I just tired of playing synth parts and figured it best left to keys anyway.

I'm highly intrigued by the Variax but since I'm married to a B-bender I'm afraid the piezo bridge wouldn't survive the use of a hipshot or something similar? I asked L6 if they were able to do individual string bends via the software but never received a reply.

That would actually be a HUGE capability via the CC pedal or even a simple MIDI controller attached to the guitar to perform "software bends" much like a Parson/White, Glasier and/or Hipshot mechanism does. Oh well, like you said - "If only we could get everything we need in one package?" LOL...

At least the PAS delivers those goods and then some. Pretty amazing results for every gig I've employed the PAS. Like you, I don't mess with double B1's for my electric but I do like a single. However, for acoustic only gigs, I've actually been leaving the B1 at home too and it's plenty of bass for me with the Taylor and vocals and sometimes mandolin/fiddle/banjo.

I've had some great gigs performing with the PAS as my backline amp too. FOH guys are always surprised how much my sound covers the venue. Sometimes they can't even mix their big stacks with the group to match my little ol' PAS.

I'm merely looking for a couple of electric setups that will cover the many different gigs I work without a combo amp. It's pretty dang close and I've got most bases covered to the point that I'm truly happy with the feel and range of tones as long as the Adrenalinn is someplace in the chain.

OMT - Checked the headphone output again on the Adrenalinn and it's really not very good compared to what I hear through the line-outs either into PAS or another processors headphone output. Just an FYI in case somebody only uses that to qualify the Adrenalinn. It's okay for light-weight practice but don't judge the Adrenalinn tone only by the headphone output on the box. Audition it into something else and/or preferably the PAS which has become my favorite way to hear it anyway.
By the way, the VG-8 can do software bending. You can program each string individually to any starting pitch, and have it shift to any other with the expression pedal. You can even have one string rise in pitch while another falls. I used to cover pedal steel parts with it in a rootsy band I was in.
I'll bet a hipshot B-Bender would work fine with a Variax. A Parsons-White would be tough to do with all of the V-axe electronics in the way. I also build and repair guitars, and my guess is the hipshot would work alright with the piezo saddles. There's also that other model that attaches to the tuner on the headstock and operates from the strap.
Honestly, though, I picked up a Variaxe 300, and while it's pretty cool, it just doesn't feel or sound as 3 dimensional in the room with
you as a real guitar. There's also a distinct lack of low end on the models compared to the real guitars. As I think you've mentioned in your posts, listeners might not know the difference, but the guy playing can sure feel it.
quote:
Originally posted by JimR:
By the way, the VG-8 can do software bending. You can program each string individually to any starting pitch, and have it shift to any other with the expression pedal. You can even have one string rise in pitch while another falls. I used to cover pedal steel parts with it in a rootsy band I was in.
I'll bet a hipshot B-Bender would work fine with a Variax. A Parsons-White would be tough to do with all of the V-axe electronics in the way. I also build and repair guitars, and my guess is the hipshot would work alright with the piezo saddles. There's also that other model that attaches to the tuner on the headstock and operates from the strap.
Honestly, though, I picked up a Variaxe 300, and while it's pretty cool, it just doesn't feel or sound as 3 dimensional in the room with
you as a real guitar. There's also a distinct lack of low end on the models compared to the real guitars. As I think you've mentioned in your posts, listeners might not know the difference, but the guy playing can sure feel it.


Interesting about the VG8 string bender? I've seen that headstock/tuner rig too. Higgins or something like that? Doesn't look like my kinda deal though. I'm already a Hipshot guy and with an ASAT, why not? It's a perfect match for the non-Tele through-body bridge.

I've considered morhping a 300 with a Warmoth Tele body & neck. Keep magnetic pups too and while we're at it, throw a Roland GK pup on there as well. That would keep me out of trouble for a while!

Totally agree about playing this new-fangled stuff! It may sound great but it just takes so much work to feel like I know what I'm doing. Gimme a basic ASAT with good amp/tone and I can usually keep fooling 'em!
Hey ASAT and JimR -
We are on the same wavelength. I have been using my XTL with the PAS just because of the Variax equation, but I also use the GNX4 whenever I am traveling and need just one box to use with headphones. I also upgrade my Adrenalinn to the II and the one thing I miss is some of the drum patterns. Otherwise that thing is the Nazz.
I am going to try the GNX4 and ADII with the PAS and I will let you know how that works out.
Cheers...
If you would have told me a year ago that I would be leaving my Fender Deluxe Reverb at home and playing through a 7 foot stick, I would have said "you're nuts."

My band purchased a couple of BOSE PS1's a few months ago, so I bought a POD XT Live. I'm impressed. The stock tones aren't that good, but once I messed around with it and created the patches I wanted to use, it workds great.

I set up 4 patches side by side in Bank 17 for easy access. Patch 1 is a Fender Twin, Patch 2 is a Matchless model with a bit of Overdrive (that responds nicely to picking attack), 3 is a Matchless with the gain set higher, and 4 is A Marshall Plexi with everything running full out. This pretty much gives me all the sounds I need for a typical gig, as my group play Classic Rock, Blues, R&B, and little country.

My only complaint is that the clean sounds (i.e. Twin) can be a little brittle. Does this system sound exaclty like my pedal board/mic'd amp rig? No. But it's so close, and so convenient to set up. I'm sold.
Bose Diddly by ASAT

'Don't like to post sound clips of my playing but here's a short example of what I mean about "grooving" with the Adrenalinn/PAS.
Bose Diddly

The signal path is/was this:

ASAT Z3=>
VHT Valvulator=>
Adrenalinn I - line outs - guitar L, drums R=>
PAS ch-1/2, L/R respectively=>
Grabbed line-out from the PAS inserts with 1/4" phono to 1st click of each jack=>
Computer soundcard=>
Cool Edit Pro normalized the 2 mono tracks and mix/pasted them together. No efx, no nothing but what came outta the insert sends of the PAS into the computer. PAS was a lot more fun than cans for a recording monitor too.

BTW - I wasn't able to get the PAS digital output to communicate with my soundcard/computer. I know it worked in the past but I wasn't in the mood to troubleshoot digital electronics.

Obviously nothing great but a genuine, quick, dirty and humble example of a creative groove Adrenalinn is capable of sparking. Coupled with the PAS, I can get-lost for hours in a HUGE sweet pocket of tone and vibe. Kinda like a big amp but without the ear/back-ache of a big amp.

At least for me, all kinda unique signatures and new licks surface when cruising with this Adrenalinn/PAS combo. With the band, things have been getting really insane lately too. Although I don't use the drum box much live I still synch to tempo where the best stuff always seems to live.

Hopefully, a Jerk Lounge juke-box could sprout from this feeble offering so please don't hesitate to post something you enjoy jamming through your PAS!
quote:
Originally posted by ASAT:
Bose Diddly by ASAT

The signal path is/was this:

ASAT Z3=>
VHT Valvulator=>
Adrenalinn I - line outs - guitar L, drums R=>
PAS ch-1/2, L/R respectively=>
Grabbed line-out from the PAS inserts with 1/4" phono to 1st click of each jack=>
Computer soundcard=>

BTW - I wasn't able to get the PAS digital output to communicate with my soundcard/computer. I know it worked in the past but I wasn't in the mood to troubleshoot digital electronics.


Hey! That tone works for me Smile Great noodling.

What type of cable(s) from the the line outs of channels 1/2 to your soundcard? Not sure what you mean by Grabbed line-out from the PAS inserts with 1/4" phono to 1st click of each jack=>
What brand of soundcard? Anything real fancy or simple soundblaster?

I would like to set something like this up for #2 son to noodle with. He has been talking about recording. He has a lick/riff base for LOTS of songs and I would like to lay some down before he forgets them all (Easier said than done to actually write some songs, however). It would be so much nicer to hear the dynamics through the PAS vs using cans while recording.

Does the VHT Valvulator really help? It would be interesting to hear an A/B with/without it?
Coz I'm wondering if it would enhance the sound enough to justify the $199 (I would buy the less expensive unit) with my PODxt bean and Tonelab.

I have Audition v1.5 and #2 son uses Tracktion v2.0.

You have used the Digital out in the past?

Regards,

Harry
Thanks guys for the kind words but remember that this is only a teeny fraction of what comes along jamming with Linn/PAS combo. For a songwriter, I can't imagine anything more creative for coaxing a riff and/or signature outta the electric guitar fingerboard.

Harry - Don't let that boy waste any good ideas! Set him up with the combo and "grab" an ouput from PAS into a computer.

My computer/soundcard is a PII laptop with a cheese-whiz Edirol USB external sound card. Nothing fancy at all and now that Chuck (thanks buddy!) reminded me about the freq/sample rate I would just go with the PAS SPDIF output for a connection. But since that wasn't happening here, I used the ch 1/2 channel insert with 1/4" phono to RCA into my card. Simply insert the 1/4" mono phono jack to only the 1st click in the jack. This will tap the signal but let it pass through the PAS too.

VHT Valvulator? Very subtle thing here and I'll try to A/B something for you to see if you can hear much difference. It's not for my ears as much as it's for "feel" and the fact that in most cases magnetic guitar pickups were originally designed/crafted with a 12AX7 preamp tube or something similar for a front-end.

I like an "inductive" relationship between the pup coils and a true voltage amplifier such as a vacuum tube. The VHT output seems to be a very good signal for ANY amp modeller I've tried with it to date. Not for EMG pups though! It's very quiet and you also get two outputs for the price of one. Handy if you wish to drive more than one amp/modeller at a time. Is it worth $200? Hard to say but it's built fairly well and I think it's worth the cost/trouble for my rigs.

JimR - Go for it bro! If that helps spark an idea for you, I'd be very flattered and I encourage you to take it as far as you can!

Sorry, I don't remember the patch? Maybe Vox AC30 or one of the Marshalls? It was basically a factory patch from the Adrenalinn I.

Yesterday I got the Adrenalinn II in here and it's got even cooler amp models, me thinks. It can also change patches via the footswitches and some things are organized a little better IMO. I'll be spanking that a while and then relate more observations.

Post something folks! Don't give away the next big hit or something but if you capture something fun happening with your modeller/PAS, we'd all love to hear it too!
First CLICK in the jack. Doh! Now I get it. I should RTFM the manual. Is that in the manual? BTW, what DID I do with that owners manual? Confused

I may try out the VHT later this fall. I can always send it back to M.F. if I don't like it.
Maybe an Adrenalinn II for my birthday..... I saw the NAMM video and was quite impressed.


Rock on!

Harry
Well Harry, I know I couldn't make it sound more confusing and now that I've reviewed the section in the manual about the ch 1/2 insert jack, I'm kinda confused.

It's really simple and page 20-21 of the manual
shows using a y-connector with an insert cable to patch parallel efx. If you only wanna break-out the signal to a recorder or something, this will work or use a mono 1/4" cable and insert it part-of-the-way into the insert jack.

To get a feel for this, push the plug in slowly and you should notice two notches or "clicks" as the plug passes into the jack.

To tap the signal, simply stop after the first notch or click and note that the plug will not be inserted all the way into the jack. It works fine this way although I'm used to dealing with this stuff.

Bummer about my new Adrenalinn II box. The input pad is scratchy so I played with it a while but sent it back to the retailer for exchange. I'll just have to hang with the purple Adrenalinn I a while longer. However, in the short time I messed with the AII, I'm not 100% sure I liked it better than the AI. We'll see? The AII will certainly come in handy for those gigs when I don't need a MIDI controller, floorboard and all of that. Just a guitar, cord, AII and PAS. Sweet...

Don't forget to check-out the M-Audio Black Box either. It's supposedly got Linn's AI amp models and it does all kinda sound card and loop duties with Win XP too.

The VHT is one of those "deals" that I like but I'm not sure why? I'm totally happy without it but when I feel like I need something extra at least it doesn't get in the way and it puts my mind at ease.

Thank you ST and for your awesome contributions around this place! Sketcher is rocking all the way.
I'm always the 1st in line to suggest that folks use the PAS mic preamps when connecting mics. But, as I was getting organized to play a small gig tonight I just realized a pretty cool thing with my guitar into that sweet PAS preamp circuit papa Cliff provided for us.

I plugged in the guitar to ch 1 and then patched the amp modeller (Adrenalinn of course) in series via the insert connection. 'Normalized levels and had a blast with this setup! Holy cow! I even tried different presets and that created many good and interesting variations. Unable to coax a bad-tone outta this setup no matter what. Wow, I'm surprised a tone-junkie like me hadn't thought of this before?

The gig tonight is very low-key and a basic R&B amp/guitar thing so I decided to just use the Adrenalinn insert into the PAS and let'er rip. Sure seems to sound great with very little gear and I will report how it goes.

Don't forget those great mic pres for your guitar. I don't even miss the VHT in the chain so this is getting very simple! You will need an insert cable but that's about all. Setup the levels and get ready for a little more detail/mojo in your "direct" tone!
Great idea, ASAT. I might try that at my gig tonight. I'm thinkin' I might try plugging my Strat straight in to ch 2 (maybe with the 12" speaker preset), and run my XTL in parallel, returned to ch 3, to try to get some of that multiple amp vibe going on. I LOVE the sound of a clean amp layered over a crunchy amp. Hmmmm...
quote:
Originally posted by gittar-jonz:
Great idea, ASAT. I might try that at my gig tonight. I'm thinkin' I might try plugging my Strat straight in to ch 2 (maybe with the 12" speaker preset), and run my XTL in parallel, returned to ch 3, to try to get some of that multiple amp vibe going on. I LOVE the sound of a clean amp layered over a crunchy amp. Hmmmm...


Hey jonz, gig went really well and using the PAS pre is/was extremely cool. During setup I was reminded that the line-out is pre insert so feed that to FOH and there'll definately be some "clean" layered to the tone! LOL... Wasn't a problem 'cause the venue was smallish but if I ever need a FOH feed with this arrangement I will probably just tell 'em to stick a mic on the L1 and be done with it. It was a great gig though and stoopidly simple gear setup! Guitar=> Adrenalinn=> PAS w/B1 = DONE

But, back to the PAS mic pre - very, very sweet for coupling guitar pups into the signal chain! I don't think I've ever used a better (clean, clear, silky) sounding and dynamically responsive mic preamp except perhaps something very "Gucci" in a genuine studio.

"Jerk Lounge" tested and approved, electric guitar is awesome when you let the PAS handle preamp chores!
Gotta say, I've been using Version 2.0 Preset #35 straight-in off and on for months with my PRS's.

#25 (12" speaker) breaks up a little too easily, or maybe it's that the shaping on #35 is better for my Guitars, but I find #35 more present and clear.

Why post that here?
On the other hand, I just got my XT Live. This was something new 'cause I've never used stomp boxes (I don't think the old V-Twin qualifies).

Not a purist or anything, I just never quite got it.

Not a tone-junkie either, so as I have been reading this thread, it has been baffling.

So back to the XT Live...
- ran it in the conventional mode
-- Guitar -> XT Live (PS1-out) -> Preset #00

Although it sounded great while I was getting to know it at home, I'll have to spend some time drying out the sounds so they don't get lost in the mix. I was surprised, there just wasn't time to do this before the gig.

ASAT, no hissy fits or fizzy bits that I could hear, but they could be there and I'm just not noticing.

We (the band) had lots of fun last night. The other Guitar player in the band got his POD XT a year ago . He had just bought a new combo on the very day I showed up with my new System. The next day he returned it and got the POD XT and shortly after, the Short Board.

So we're trading back and forth, vocals and riffs as we always do and there are some really cool sounds in there. Many were things that in the home audition seemed unusable. But in context, they worked well.

Nits:
On stage: I can't read the orange display, but I can read the display on my buddy's Short Board that is also on the floor, but several feet away. I can read the red patch indicators, so I guess I'll have to learn them.

Nice:
This thing responds really well to attack and volume at the Guitar end. It exceeded my hopes in this department. I mean clean to outrageous on the same patch just by changing attack and volume.

Having the PODXT and the XTLive side-by-side gave me a chance to put aside another fear... that everything you put in it would come out sounding the same. Nope, my Guitar still sounds like mine, and my buddy's sounds like his. This is super important when we trade lines.

Later:
Got to find a long TRS insert cable so I can try:
Guitar -> PS1 (Preset #35) -> XT Live through Send/Receive loop.

Okay, enough about that for now.

Thanks to you guys for all the great thoughts and ideas!
Guitar -> PS1 (Preset #35) -> XT Live through Send/Receive loop.

I dunno how much difference it makes but my XT Pro has a line-input pad switch on the guitar input so I go into that jack with the PAS insert guitar send? For the output (return) I use the XT L main line out. There's all kinda ways to use the XT efx loop too but I think it may be after amp modelling so for dirt/grit, you may be better off with the guitar input padded to line level?

Yeah, ain't that a PITA about the XTL teeny display? The shortboard is much more readable but the tuner isn't as precise when viewed on that display. Oh well, it's hard to get everything we like in one deal, right? GNX4 has a nice size display but GNX4 ain't the XT in some regards either! I can't even remember the Boss GT6 display, LOL...

My hunch is that the PAS has potential to stand-in as a formidable guitar amp. Nice even dispersion coupled with large waveform sure seems like just the ticket many of us can appreciate. Trouble is, we must now learn to adapt this digital technology that has become mainstay in the studio realm for years to live gigging. Judging from my acoustic work the PAS is just the speaker setup to provide a more "studio sound" to live performances. However, for some of us electric "hacks" the hat-trick is getting the dang thing to "feel" right so we can tap into some crude vigor and keep rockin!

Insert cables? Yeah, I've gotta couple old 12 footers that I have from the DG Stomp running in the efx loop of either Matchless. For backline amp(s) that is/was a SWEET setup but I never used any of the DG amps in an insert arrangement. Just for delay, mods, verbs, wah, tuner, volume box. All of the OD stuff (TS9, fuzz, od-1 pedals) placed before the amp front-end. Patching, stage volume and cartage is always a nightmare but sounds/feels so amazing that LOUD and cumbersome still has some appeal.

Time will tell but the pocket has been extra good lately and if the past weekend was any indication, I may have found what I've been searching for. At the end of a 12' insert cable the Adrenalinn 1 was very simple, cool and effective once I learned how to setup switching a "goto" patch from any other patch I happened to be sitting on. Get that subtle filtering sweeping in-synch to the groove and watch-out!!!

BTW - I also used a 6xAA battery holder powering the Linn A1 so I didn't even need a wall-wart on the floor. Ampmeter had told me the A1 drew 350mA so I reckoned AA battery pack with alkalines will be good for 4-6 hours easy. Handled 5 hours this weekend with no problem and another hour or more today on the deck noodling in the mild coastal climate to some groovy beats. Sick, ain't it?
I spent a couple of hours yesterday tweaking my XT through the Bose. I generally prefer to leave the "A.I.R" on......I started getting some sounds that I was was much happier with than previously, and part of it was using the post-eq to combat the "fizz." I set the highest band at 5.1k and pulled it down a few db, and then usually boosted a couple of db with the band below that at 3k or so. On some I boosted low-mids a bit to fatten as well. I'm a big fan of "Line 6 Clean" and "Line 6 Mood"; they have a liquid, smooth character that appeals to me, sort of the opposite of the "blatty", "edgy" sounds of many of the classic amp models. Fenders can sound great when they're blowing past your ankles, but if you point one at your face, it's pretty nasty. The PAS, as has been noted elsewhere many times, leaves you no escape from the whole tone, so I find I need to program toward the warm, smooth end of the spectrum to simulate the usual "outside-the-beam" tone guitarists are used to hearing.
Of course, I'll probably go home tonight, turn on the power, and discover that everything that sounded wonderful last night is an abomination to my ears today. The quest never ends.............
By the way, if anyone wants to hear my Godin-through-VG-8-Aura-Loop Station-rig, you can go to http://www.BethStalker.com and see a video clip of "Stormy Monday". It's just a cheap digital video cam recording, so the sound is low-fi and the crowd noise is kind of loud, but you'll get the idea.
quote:
Originally posted by JimR:
I spent a couple of hours yesterday tweaking my XT through the Bose. I generally prefer to leave the "A.I.R" on......I started getting some sounds that I was was much happier with than previously, and part of it was using the post-eq to combat the "fizz." I set the highest band at 5.1k and pulled it down a few db, and then usually boosted a couple of db with the band below that at 3k or so. On some I boosted low-mids a bit to fatten as well. I'm a big fan of "Line 6 Clean" and "Line 6 Mood"; they have a liquid, smooth character that appeals to me, sort of the opposite of the "blatty", "edgy" sounds of many of the classic amp models. Fenders can sound great when they're blowing past your ankles, but if you point one at your face, it's pretty nasty. The PAS, as has been noted elsewhere many times, leaves you no escape from the whole tone, so I find I need to program toward the warm, smooth end of the spectrum to simulate the usual "outside-the-beam" tone guitarists are used to hearing.
Of course, I'll probably go home tonight, turn on the power, and discover that everything that sounded wonderful last night is an abomination to my ears today. The quest never ends.............
By the way, if anyone wants to hear my Godin-through-VG-8-Aura-Loop Station-rig, you can go to http://www.BethStalker.com and see a video clip of "Stormy Monday". It's just a cheap digital video cam recording, so the sound is low-fi and the crowd noise is kind of loud, but you'll get the idea.


Howdy Jim, tried looking at the video but I need a plug-in for my Mozilla browser. Oh well, looks like you got it going-on and keep it up!

When I used to surgically EQ "fizz" with the DEQ2496 (or whatever the model was) I usually sliced-out between 5-6k. Often, it seemed to be about 5.6k but sometimes lower or higher depending on the patch and amp model. The XT post EQ could get there kinda like you describe but it took a lot of other stuff that seemed to dull the tone to my senses.

Fizz is some really weird stuff, eh? It never really posed a problem for me with clean settings but bring a little dirt/grit into the picture even with an external OD pedal into a clean patch and it bugs me to death. Especially with the PAS because it reproduces EVERYTHING so well I guess?

Oh well, if it doesn't bother some folks, I'm happy for them but I can't live with that on stage with the tones I use for hours each week.

Focusplayer - Rat Shack sells some 9.6V Ni-cad RC car batteries w/chargers that could serve my purposes but that probably won't work in your Vax. Also, I get a free and endless supply of batteries from my theatrical wireless sound gigs so I'm never short of AA's. Duracells are about 2850mAH and my producer(s) insist on one show per battery change so you can imagine the huge stock of practically fresh AA's sitting in boxes around here. I hate to throw them away so I look for every chance to use 'em up that I can.

For years, I've always based my portable device purchases on if they used AA's or not.

In the old days with 9 volt wireless packs, I sometimes series connected the oldies until I had 300-400Vdc across the cells. Always wanted to build a tube amp circuit to run off those series 9V batteries! LOL...
quote:
Originally posted by Harry:
quote:

It was a great gig though and stoopidly simple gear setup! Guitar=> Adrenalinn=> PAS w/B1 = DONE

ASAT,

No fizz in the Adrenalinn? No post EQ? How about on the GNX4?

Here are some pedals catching my eye, especially the Womanizer:

Damage Control

Regards,

Harry


Here's the deal - best I can describe:

The Adrenalinn has some Fizz too as well as the GNX4. In fact, the headphone amp is particularly nasty about that on the A1. However, it seems to come-and-go depending on the notes being played via line-out PAS OD levels so I don't feel "whipped-up" by it in any given song.

With the XT, it's always there on everything I play but with the A1/GNX4 the duty cycle of the stuff and/or fidelity is less so I don't become distracted by it.

It's also complicated by the fact that I find myself pushing saturation with the XT in an attempt to get guitar notes to sustain like my "clean" genuine Matchless does. In that regard, the A1 is very close to a familiar touch and I tend to back-off the OD/Dist more to a cleaner level which will always help reduce Fizz.

The A1 has excellent "fangs" when you smack the strings hard but back-off and play lightly the notes sustain/swell very naturally.

The oddest thing about all of this is that auditioning "tone" in the clear isn't very effective. Every time I do that with any guitar processor things change when placed in a mix. The bottom line is what fits in the mix is rarely what sounds pleasing when solo'd.

That may be one of the "real" advantages of either GNX4 or A1. You can actually hear the guitar with a drum beat and therefore get a little closer to approximating what it will do live with a band.

And, I don't judge the XT Fizz factor by anything except what I've experienced using it live with my band. In fact, I didn't even notice it too much until the PAS arrived and bandmates started asking me if everything was okay. But, once I did, it's all I can hear when I use the amp models for anything except "sqeaky clean", and that feels pretty lame under my fingers.

I'm 99% certain it's gotta be something to do with the models because when I bypass all of that and use the XT as a DI/post efx box with either the A1/GNX4, I don't get it. But, turn on even a clean amp model and run a TS9 into that, it'll be there. Weird, eh?

Yeah, I've seen that stuff by some old L6 guys, right? Haven't got one of them in yet but somebody should sooner or later. I had the most fun I've had in a long time with the simplest A1/PAS setup so if the mojo continues, I think I will be ready to hang-up the lab-coat, call it a day and get back to making/playing music.

Cheers
M-Audio Black Box.

Roger Linn contributed to this effort but it leaves me less than thrilled compared to the Adrenalinn 1. The unit I got experienced drop-outs similar to a noise gate chopping off notes. Not very often but every once in a while the guitar tone would fade out but the drums kept going. And it didn't seem to be the noise gate (only adjustable via software, BTW) because it happened while playing pretty hard stuff.

A couple amp models sounded okay but it didn't seem to have the touch/feel of the A1. I suppose the point of this offering is more of a recording tool with a tuner and simpler editing routines but I'm just not feeling the love with this one like I do with the A1. It does offer one expression pedal and two momentary programable switch inputs that would make a nice live setup but the sound is simply okay and not that great based on a short and "defective" test drive.

'Don't feel much like exploring this one much further when I know I can grab the A1 and be ready to gig with minimal trouble. Sure, I may need to keep the old Korg DT-1 tuner handy but the A1 as an insert effect for my guitar in either ch 1 or 2 of the PAS seems to be my favorite simple package to date.

For larger shows, if I want more patch/expression control and post efx, the XT Pro or GNX4 take over after the A1 and also provides FOH feeds. Reverb ain't very important to me and often just gets in the way of a good rock guitar tone but for cleaner tones it can be nice but I can take it or leave it. I believe there's some "wisdom" to be learned from designs like the AdrenaLinn about reverb. It's NOT there for a reason and probably because it's so easy to mess-up a basically great guitar tone with overuse.

So far, it's still the A1 that is there for me to cover 3 levels of gigs.
1) Minimum gear for clubs/rehearsal. Guitar/A1/PAS
2) Middle ground for larger clubs/concerts. Guitar/A1/MIDIcontrol/PAS
3) Large setup for concerts/shows. Guitar/A1/GNX4-or-XTPro/PAS

I just gotta 2nd A1 and intend to try that synch'd MIDI for double-barrel effect with the PAS. Probably a comb filtering nightmare but it may be worth a try?

Oh, and Harry - 'Gotta DC Womanizer headed in-studio soon too! You devil for putting that in my mind, LOL... 'Since I'm already doing gigs into the XT/GNX4 as DI/post boxes I figure it may be a cool piece. Quite a bit of "dramatic" language around the product so we'll see if it's just another version of the Ibanez "Tube King" or not? Nothing against a Tube King but if you're gonna run a tube, why not connect it to the guitar instead of an OP amp 1st in the signal chain? Dunno how DC does it but I should soon!
Okay, another awesome gig last night with not one but TWO A1's and PAS. Slaved the 2nd box to the MIDI clock of the 1st unit and I had no adverse comb filtering issues. In fact, the guitar tone and clean sustain were absolutely magical.

I basically worked between 2 patches on each unit making various combinations. Came up with one that used the auto wah of one in addition to a fat sticky flanger OD tone on the other A1 and that was pretty dang fun! Another "blend" using some kinda arppegio effect blended with a basic tone also got heads spinning for a couple tunes.

At sound check I kicked-on both drum sequencers with different patterns and just made-up something jamming for 10-15 minutes. People's mouths were on the floor and my bandmates were already writing a new song based on some of the signature licks that sprang from that little creative moment.

The VHT handled splitting guitar for the two A1's very nicely. A little more stuff to haul and patch but well worth the price of admission. If you have the same need for "feel" that I do, two A1's with PAS help me quickly forget my sweet old tube combo.

Bose guys - check out AdrenaLinn with the PAS. I've been seriously working a bunch of stuff and I firmly believe this is something well-worth your time to explore as a possible backline guitar amp solution.
quote:
Originally posted by ASAT:
Oh, and Harry - 'Gotta DC Womanizer headed in-studio soon too! You devil for putting that in my mind, LOL... 'Since I'm already doing gigs into the XT/GNX4 as DI/post boxes I figure it may be a cool piece. Quite a bit of "dramatic" language around the product so we'll see if it's just another version of the Ibanez "Tube King" or not? Nothing against a Tube King but if you're gonna run a tube, why not connect it to the guitar instead of an OP amp 1st in the signal chain? Dunno how DC does it but I should soon!


LOL! Let me know how that sounds! I gotta birthday in September. I love the tube based stuff even if it is not 100% analog. I hope they implemented it properly.

They are former Line6 guys.

Regards,

Harry
Great gigging live w/Adrenalinn and PAS. I managed to try a couple of variations this busy holiday weekend and each one provided me with very workable tone/feel I need to play my best.

Dual A1's work great together and offer different amp tones at once along with many different efx synch'd to a common timebase. To manage a dual-input Y connection from my guitar I patched: Guitar=> VHT Valvulator provides 2 outputs=> AdrenaLinns=> PAS inputs. MIDI out from host AdrenaLinn to MIDI in of slave AdrenaLinn. While it's possible to merge inputs to these boxes from the PAS ch 1/2 inputs and insert patching it's quite a bit of cabling and level tweaking. This also doesn't address my occasional need for FOH feeds very easily. Therefore the VHT handles the input splitting and I can just return each mono AdrenaLinn output to PAS ch 1/2 respectively if I need FOH outputs or even ch 3/4 if I don't need FOH and prefer a vocal mic input or two.

Another exciting variation I discovered this weekend was VHT=> two A1's=> GNX4 line inputs, output global mono. This connection offers mixing the A1 outputs together and opens-up so much in the efx/output department. Get a couple of happening tones working from the dual A1's and then route that through the GNX4 efx chain for wah, compressor, chorus, modulation, more delays, post EQ, reverb, stomp pedals, volume control, balanced output, etc. The list is endless and it's an inspiring albeit more time consuming combination.

Harry - my hope is that the Womanizer will help with one of my steady gigs where I only need a few good clean/vintage tones for non-PAS duty direct to console. POD XT Pro in this case fed by the Womanizer tube preamp. Hopefully that will be all the mojo-bone I need for that specific setup. The POD XT Pro already does good in this arrangement but as has been noted, on it's own the clean sustain is less-than thrilling under my fingers. Hopefully, the Womanizer preamp will help to improve that shortcoming?

However, that's only a specific setup for clean/vintage tones. The rest of my work involves showing-up to contribute a much wider range of styles and tones from my electric guitar. Many times, I don't even know what type of guitar the service requires until I arrive. For this, the AdrenaLinn has become my favorite go-to device to locate a good tone-for-the-moment in little time direct to PAS.

Roger Linn really produced a gem here IMO. It deserves more attention than it's received but I'm in no position to complain. 'Just shut-up and buy all the cheap AdrenaLinn's I can find on eBay! LOL...
Damage Control Womanizer...

Intense guitar box alert here! More of a preamp than an amp modeller but I'm having a great time exploring it with all of my modellers and even a combo amp or two. Studio quiet unit and a great dry direct sound into console although I find myself using the amp output into a modeller so that the Womanizer can be direct bypassed. It's hard wire bypass and will even bypass the guitar signal if the power is off. In direct out mode, you get no signal out of that jack when it's bypassed.

EQ range is excellent and allows you to shape the pre/post EQ very nicely. The opto-compressor is extremely cool and tends to fatten my single coils up a lot. Too much use will limit dynamics but it has some useful settings for me. You should definitely be able to coax squeal from this sexy-beast and when used as a clean boost with a touch of compressor, the clean feel is very satisfying to this old picker.

Helps all of the modellers I've tried it with the feel mojo.

IMO - A highly useful pedal that will come in very handy for many situations. I haven't determined if guitar actually sees a preamp tube connection or not but the tone is such that I really don't care. I give it a "worth a try" rating and even if you don't find it useful on it's own, when placed in front of practically any modeller/amp it'll add a couple new dimensions to your rig.

BTW - Got the replacement AdrenaLinn II and it worked for about an hour before the DSP engine went south. Sound just started cutting in/out and a factory reset didn't restore. Too bad, I like the advancements compared to the original A1 but after sending two new A2's back I doubt I will try another one. Perhaps, I will just get another A1 or two and try the A2 upgrade myself?

A1's still rule my rig though and I've already wrote a CD worth of songs with those little guys grooving me along into creative mode.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
Having trouble signing in?

We recently updated our sign-in procedure and if you have old sign-in data cached, this can create a problem. Please:

  1. Clear your browser cache and cookies
  2. Then close the browser (not just the window)
  3. Open the browser and try again
Thank you

Please make sure that your profile is up to date
×
×
×
×