We're a 4 piece mostly bluegrass band, who all like to sing, sometimes 4 parts. The instruments are banjo, guitar/mando, dobro, and upright bass.

Lately we have been using an Ear Trumpet Edwina mic for the vocal/instrument mic, set in the middle, and two AKG C-1000's on either side for instrument solos. This goes into a T1 Tonematch mixer, then through a 50' long cable off to a model L1S with a B2 bass box, that is set part way down the side of the house, but with enough angle back toward the band that we can hear ourselves. It has worked quite well in rooms that don't require too much volume to achieve sound reinforcement. The only problem encountered has been a low frequency feedback due to not enough low cut on the satellite mics.

Does anyone else do it this way, besides the guy who showed me how to do it?

Original Post

Hi, Farmer's Corner.

Welcome to the Bose Portable PA Community. Thanks for joining us.

Farmer's Corner posted:

We're a 4 piece mostly bluegrass band, who all like to sing, sometimes 4 parts. The instruments are banjo, guitar/mando, dobro, and upright bass.

That sounds like some serious fun.

Lately we have been using an Ear Trumpet Edwina mic for the vocal/instrument mic, set in the middle, and two AKG C-1000's on either side for instrument solos. This goes into a T1 Tonematch mixer, then through a 50' long cable off to a model L1S with a B2 bass box, that is set part way down the side of the house, but with enough angle back toward the band that we can hear ourselves. It has worked quite well in rooms that don't require too much volume to achieve sound reinforcement. The only problem encountered has been a low frequency feedback due to not enough low cut on the satellite mics.

Does anyone else do it this way, besides the guy who showed me how to do it?

On the T1 you can use the ParaEQ to help with the low-frequency feedback due to not enough low cut on the satellite mics.

For more detail see: ParaEQ

Thanks for telling us about your set up.

ST

Just for further clarification, all the mics are condensers, and none of instruments are plugged in. When speaking with the Ear Trumpet people regarding this set-up with a Bose L1, they have recommended setting that mic pretty much flat, not using any pre-set. I am pretty satisfied with the results so far.

Having the speaker array offset from the stage does not seem to disorient the listeners, as there is enough volume coming from the performers to fill the front of the house, and the L1 speakers seem to fill the rest of the room, while also giving us some monitor sound. We can use more volume from the Bose this way as compared to having the speakers closer to us.

This generally works best in smaller rooms with a listening crowd.

If any one else is using these mics or this type of set-up I'd be interested in their commentary.

thanks

Brian

I would first get rid of the hot wing mics and go with a pair of Audix OM5 (set with a 30 degree or so tilt) mics.  If thats not enough, think about close-micing vocals with the same.

Some years I tried the same and finally purchased the OM5s and the world became a better place.

That OM5 has a unique ability to reject any sound off axis but you do need to eat the mic with your instrument or vocals.

Cheers,

Hi Brian,

At the risk of being redundant, or telling you stuff you already know, let me share some thoughts.

The C 1000, if you bought it new, should have a super cardioid attachment for the diaphragm that gives it a similar pickup pattern to the OM5. If you haven't tried it, do so. I think the newer ones also have a bass roll off switch.

Experiment with the different settings on the B2, as well as positioning. If putting the L1s off to the side means having the B2 near, or against, a wall use the setting of least bass output. 

In the early years, after introduction of the L1 series of systems, there was quite a bit of conversation about how to use them with traditional Bluegrass bands gathered around a single large diaphragm mic. I don't recall anyone being successful with the L1 behind the performers, or with loud volume.

I know that Ear Trumpet makes a lot of claims about their mics ability to perform without feedback issues. I see them used by a lot of artists with conventional equipment to a very high degree of success. I have been intrigued, and curious about how they might work for me, but have so far not taken the bait on another expensive mic that might go unused. That being said, I would not take their word as gospel on the use of presets. The vocal presets are tailored to give good vocal sound and eliminate some problem, or unnecessary, frequencies. Bluegrass musicians have for a very long time played their instruments through mics EQed for vocals. At least give presets a try.

Keep us informed of your successes/failures with this system and your band. You have the potential of answering a lot of questions for us, rather than us answering for you.

O..

 

 

Thanks for your comments, Oldghm.

Having the B2 close to a wall is a consideration that I was not aware of, and I must admit, I have never experimented with the bass output switch. I'll check that next time we set up.

Our shows are pretty informal, nobody to operate/adjust the T1 processor on the fly, so we just get it as close as possible during a sound check and then go.  Most often the sound is great. The odd time when a problem occurs, there is not much opportunity to do in-depth analysis...something gets cut (sometimes to the detriment of the total sound) and the show goes on.

I really prefer a 'gather round the mic' performance for bluegrass music, most importantly for the ability to balance the vocal harmonies naturally as compared to individual mics and monitor requirements that make everything so much more complicated. Visually, I really like the 'dance' with a single mic as singers/players move in and out to highlight the dynamics.

The Ear Trumpet mic is quite amazing in it's ability to minimize feedback, while clearly reproducing instruments and voices that are not necessarily right on top of it. Sometimes we will put a mic on the bass, but even without one, the bass is nicely in the mix.

The C-1000 might not be the best choice for instrument solo miking, and they came second hand without the super cardiod pattern accessory, but I like the clarity of their tone, and more importantly, that's what we have.

best

Brian

BanjoJames posted:

I would first get rid of the hot wing mics and go with a pair of Audix OM5 (set with a 30 degree or so tilt) mics.  If thats not enough, think about close-micing vocals with the same.

Some years I tried the same and finally purchased the OM5s and the world became a better place.

That OM5 has a unique ability to reject any sound off axis but you do need to eat the mic with your instrument or vocals.

Cheers,

So are you using two OM-5's in an x-y pattern instead of a single condenser mic? Does this balance the sound of three voices when one voice is in the centre and not on-axis to either mic? What is the physical range for clear pickup of an instrument that is farther away than two feet for example? My experience with dynamic mics is that their pickup range is quite limited. Where would you be in relation to your speaker array? In front? beside?

thanks

Brian

ST posted:

Hi, Farmer's Corner.

Welcome to the Bose Portable PA Community. Thanks for joining us.

Farmer's Corner posted:

We're a 4 piece mostly bluegrass band, who all like to sing, sometimes 4 parts. The instruments are banjo, guitar/mando, dobro, and upright bass.

That sounds like some serious fun.

Lately we have been using an Ear Trumpet Edwina mic for the vocal/instrument mic, set in the middle, and two AKG C-1000's on either side for instrument solos. This goes into a T1 Tonematch mixer, then through a 50' long cable off to a model L1S with a B2 bass box, that is set part way down the side of the house, but with enough angle back toward the band that we can hear ourselves. It has worked quite well in rooms that don't require too much volume to achieve sound reinforcement. The only problem encountered has been a low frequency feedback due to not enough low cut on the satellite mics.

Does anyone else do it this way, besides the guy who showed me how to do it?

On the T1 you can use the ParaEQ to help with the low-frequency feedback due to not enough low cut on the satellite mics.

For more detail see: ParaEQ

Thanks for telling us about your set up.

ST

Is the sketcher still available? All the links I have found don't connect me to anything. Thanks

Brian

Hi Brian,

I own and sometimes use two  AKG C 1000 mics.  They are a quality mic suitable for many applications. I would contact AKG to get the hyper / super / cardioid accessory (PPC1000 converter) if possible. It might make a considerable difference, especially if your members are moving into it for their solos.

I shared a venue with JD Crow and The New South the last winter that Tony Rice was in the group. It was the year, and venue, that Ricky Skaggs and Jerry Douglas joined the band. I played in a bar/lounge and they played after dinner in a large dinning room in what was then a Sheratan Inn in Lexington KY. It was good times. They used choreography moving about the stage and a central mic "tree", of three Sm 58's for vocals then. I understand wanting to keep that tradition.

I looked for video, but could not find any from the venue, but this came from that winter season, recorded at the local PBS / KET studio. The clothes, hair, instruments, and music are the same. Tony had just acquired that D-28 that had once been Clarence White's. Later when Tony moved to California to play with David Grisman, I bought the 50's D-28 Tony had played for years before getting this one. I remember the night he came in with White's guitar. He had traveled someplace to buy the instrument and flown with the guitar in a Mark Leaf case with a sealing gasket. After being in the cold non pressurized belly of the plane it would not open for awhile after releasing the case latches. Now that's a bit of Bluegrass history not a lot of people will know or remember.

Another appropriate note, they were using Bose 802's for FOH at the time. 

O..

Last edited by Oldghm
Farmer's Corner posted:
BanjoJames posted:

I would first get rid of the hot wing mics and go with a pair of Audix OM5 (set with a 30 degree or so tilt) mics.  If thats not enough, think about close-micing vocals with the same.

Some years I tried the same and finally purchased the OM5s and the world became a better place.

That OM5 has a unique ability to reject any sound off axis but you do need to eat the mic with your instrument or vocals.

Cheers,

So are you using two OM-5's in an x-y pattern instead of a single condenser mic? Does this balance the sound of three voices when one voice is in the centre and not on-axis to either mic? What is the physical range for clear pickup of an instrument that is farther away than two feet for example? My experience with dynamic mics is that their pickup range is quite limited. Where would you be in relation to your speaker array? In front? beside?

thanks

Brian

Simply, the OM-5s would be to the sides for breaks and fills. During a break, just stick that instrument in there, like within 4-6 inches and pick. Just eat the mic.

Our best experiences were when the L1 was off to the side of us. 

 

If you play loud venues, I'm afraid the L1 behind and condenser mics up front are not compatible. I suppose if you eat the mic and play really close-in, you could be heard.  For loud bars where when you start playing, the crowd gets louder, you play louder, it just starts to escalate.

We used the L1 for normal gigs and a seperate full FOH set-up, with close miking of vocals and instruments for loud gigs.  Our guitar, mando and bass would be plugged-in while banjo is loud enough to work off the OM-5.

So every gig and every room is different.

Cheers, James

One of my go-to do-dads is a Sabine FBX Solo, model SM-820. This little guy is a feedback killer for condenser mics.  You can set to live mode where it's always working.  You simply insert between the mic and mixer.  It will give you some additional db headroom for sure. It also has a phantom power switch, and filter width depending if are doing voice or music.  Its worth checking out if you're so in love with that big center mic.

Cheers, James

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