Tagged With "812"

Topic

F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

enzo ·
In the process of shopping speakers for a live musician/band venue with audience capacity 50 to 75 plus. Long room with stage in center of long wall, 70 long, 25 wide. Looking for any feedback regarding horizontal ceiling mount of F1 812 (paired). Thank you edit : Subject changed - previously F1 812
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

ST ·
Hi Enzo, Thank you for joining the Community. Please confirm: 70 long, 25 wide Is that feet or meters? What kind of music? Will people be in assigned seating or free to wander within the space? Thank you. ST
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

enzo ·
Sorry - yes 70 feet long, 25 feet wide. No fixed chairs (not a theater) - there will be tables tables, chairs, standing. Music blues, jazz, rock, acoustic, stand-up comedy.
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

jdbassentertainment.com ·
On a side note- I'd say you might want to add F1 Sub (or two) - I did an experiment when I first started using the F1 System. I played some hard rock through just a pair of 812s and then I added the F1 sub... What I found out was two things - the obvious... the bass was deeper and harder hitting, but the other was surprising to me... the limit light on the front would take longer to come on and I got more volume from the tops when the "with sub" light was on. The amount of extra head room...
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

ST ·
Hi Enzo, In the space you've described, I would mount the F1 Model 812s vertically. Otherwise, you may not have enough horizontal dispersion to cover the room. When mounted horizontally, the F1 Model 812s have a horizontal dispersion of about 40°. when using the C-position for the flexible array. There are mounting brackets for the F1 Model 812 that allow for horizontal or vertical mounting. You'll have to call Bose directly to get them. How high is the room? Was there a reason you were...
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

ST ·
Hi Enzo, When you turn the F1 Model 812 to a horizontal position (parallel to the floor) you get 100° vertical dispersion and 40° horizontal dispersion (with the flexible array in the C position). If you mount the F1 Model 812s on either side of the stage that is centered on the 70-foot wall, you can expect much better coverage at the far ends of the room with the vertical orientation compared to the results than horizontal orientation. Does that clarify things? ST
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

enzo ·
Ceiling is 10 feet high. thinking with the C configuration the sound could be better dispersed throgh the long and shallow room. it is my understsnding that the system has a 100 degree horizontal dispersion when vertical. would have thought it would be same horizontally and focused on seating area.
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

ST ·
Here's a completely unscientific comparison that does not take into account reflections or frequencies. ST
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

ST ·
A little more - and I'm not suggesting that you change where you put the stage - but: If you put the stage on the 25-foot wall then you might want to limit the sound hitting the side walls. That's a situation where you could mount the F1 Model 812s on either side of the stage in the horizontal position. You would set the array so the sound is directed inward, and not at the side walls. You would likely mount them high, and angle them down to avoid directing sound needlessly at the ceiling.
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

enzo ·
Yes - that is what i was thinking. thank you for your valuable insight ST.
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

enzo ·
Well I thought the whole point of the FI 812 is to position the sound where it needs to be. So by using the "C" position horizontally should enable more lateral coverage. See attached change to your drawing, note the 8 speakers. Granted there is a limit on the vertical at this point but that can be focused. Thank you for your responses ST. Just trying to figure this thing out.
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Re: F1 812 - horizontal ceiling mount

ST ·
Hi Enzo, The F1 Model 812 is a portable line array that allows you to change the vertical coverage pattern. We see that in the illustration here. enzo posted: Well I thought the whole point of the FI 812 is to position the sound where it needs to be. Yes, you're right. The control allows you to direct the sound where it's needed. Something that is not visible in the pictures, is that when you have an array of drivers aligned vertically, (8 in the F1 Model 812) you tend to get wide horizontal...
Topic

Adding a F1/812 to a T1 system

galleryg ·
Hi I currently have a L1 II/B2 system with two T1's and a added 12 channel sub mixer. I love the sound we are getting but want to improve on it for using with a larger venue. We are a four piece band with two on vox. Two guitarists that sing, bass running a DI and Drummer with mic'ed kick and snare/hihat. The electric guitars are non mic'ed but we run two acoustics through the system. Our sound works well for us in small to medium small (200 seat) venues but for anything larger than that we...
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Re: Adding a F1/812 to a T1 system

MattS-at-Bose ·
Hi galleryg, It sounds like you’re considering the right stuff here. I agree if you were to run an additional L1 II you would probably be better served to split the sources between the two. Even if you ran two L1 IIs with identical signals they don’t necessarily approach doubling the output: http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/inde..._Distributed_Systems So if your L1 II is challenged with your mix at greater than 200 seat gigs, I think you’re right to consider the F1 which has much more power. To...
Topic

F1 812 hiss

SoundGeek ·
812 Owners I just purchased two new F1 812s. Does anyone else have a white noise type sound from 5kHz to about 9kHz when the F1s are turned on, with all inputs open, gains set to zero and input set to Line? It's low level and would not be noticeable once music or singing begins for a live band or DJing but it definitely raises the noise floor and would most likely be noticeable sitting close to the 812s in a very quiet room. (such as a conference or play/drama, etc.) Just curious if this is...
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Re: F1 812 hiss

SoundGeek ·
Update: I have reviewed other units and called Bose Support. The slight hiss that I am hearing when close to the speaker is the noise floor of the 812 so this is normal. I love the sound of the 812s, especially when combined with the F1 subs! With these in the arsenal (in addition to L1 MIIs and Compacts, there are no longer any gaps for 99% of the events for which I need to provide sound reinforcement.
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Re: F1 812 hiss

Seagullman ·
Hi SoundGeek, SoundGeek posted: 812 Owners I just purchased two new F1 812s. Does anyone else have a white noise type sound from 5kHz to about 9kHz when the F1s are turned on, with all inputs open, gains set to zero and input set to Line? It's low level and would not be noticeable once music or singing begins for a live band or DJing but it definitely raises the noise floor and would most likely be noticeable sitting close to the 812s in a very quiet room. (such as a conference or...
Topic

F1 812 Power Supply Problem

Mateus Wendland ·
Good afternoon I am the owner of two F1 812 bose in about 1 year. One of the speakers on the first use was defective in its power supply after about 12 hours of use, and it stopped while playing PC music at a very low volume. I even opened the speaker and found a defective 22n60 right on the primary input circuit of the power supply, which burned the fuse. Changed the defective 22n60 the speaker went back to normal operation, having operated after that for several hours without any problem.
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Re: F1 812 Power Supply Problem

MattS-at-Bose ·
Hi Mateus, Sorry for the trouble. For US service please call 877-335-2673. For service outside the US, please contact local service: https://global.bose.com/en_us/index.html Thanks, MattS-at-Bose
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

ST ·
Hi Tom For future reference, I found the manual for your monitors here. http://harbingerproaudio.com/w...ri-Series_Manual.pdf TomF1 posted: Hi, I play in a Pink Floyd 4 piece cover band (Midnight-Floyd.com) and we had very mixed results with the F1s for various reasons. One of the issues we have a lot is feedback because we often loop 2 600w Harbingers between the 812s and the mixer. So the chain is currently: Mixer XAir18 -> Sennheiser In Ear Monitor Transmitter -> Harbinger Monitor...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
ST, All makes sense. I never thought of cloning the master mix. Brilliant idea. Thanks so much. Also for the Harbinger manuals. I will try out the cloning first and see how that works. Will also check the cancellation through the Harbingers. Thanks again, tom p.s. I play a regular stock Strat American DeLuxe Strat https://images.reverb.com/imag...sqc8kf3nm3zareiz.jpg A regular stock Tele American DeLuxe https://images.reverb.com/imag...0o3umhgubrkdoy5z.jpg Both with the noiseless pickups and...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

JohnL ·
Just curious, did you guys ever consider the L1 systems instead? That would suit your playing/monitor style more, plus you gain the advantage of a much cleaner stage front.
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

JohnL ·
Instead of both actually. L1M2 systems would replace your entire rig, F1, Harbingers, and maybe even IEMs and mixer. Depending on how many L1 systems you get.
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
You mean instead of the F1s or instead of the Harbingers?
Topic

Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
Hi, I play in a Pink Floyd 4 piece cover band (Midnight-Floyd.com) and we had very mixed results with the F1s for various reasons. One of the issues we have a lot is feedback because we often loop 2 600w Harbingers between the 812s and the mixer. So the chain is currently: Mixer XAir18 -> Sennheiser In Ear Monitor Transmitter -> Harbinger Monitor -> F1 812 -> F1 Sub. We are all plugged into the mixer (Digital drum set, bass direct in, Kemper profiling amp, keys, mics) The reason...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

ST ·
Hi TomF1, Thank you for joining the Community. I appreciate the description of your band and what you are doing. Nice to meet you. I found this document on the Harbinger monitors http://harbingerproaudio.com/w...118_HP115_Manual.pdf What model of Harbinger are you using? If yours is not covered by the document above, please give us a link to the manual for your monitors. Thanks, ST
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
ST, Nice to meet you too. Thanks for your reply. I have the Harbinger V2112. They are not part of this document. Here is a link. Thanks again, tom http://www.musiciansfriend.com...6037401060x147284900
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

JohnL ·
Multiple L1M2 systems can easily handle crowds up to 500 or so at hard rock levels. But if not, using 3 L1 systems behind the band as monitors will allow you to move the F1s further out to the side as FOH while minimizing feedback all throughout. Multiple L1s can get loud. Even for large crowds specially in open air venues. All while eliminating front monitors perhaps even IEMs and mixer.
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
Not sure I understand. I can't imagine the L1s replacing the F1s. In a small pub maybe but anything larger than 200 people?
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
ST, Jonathan, JohnL, Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. I spent all of this day to read up on the L1s and the concepts. For now I won't be able to convince my band mates to cough up something north of $2,000 each and BYO PA. Have to find a way to introduce the idea and create the desire. Until then I will work with what I have. Maybe replace the Harbingers at some point with L1s without the tone match and keep adding over time. Jonathan, Your point about separate Monitor Mix is well...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

JohnL ·
The 1 L1 per member does take a lot of convincing. Very gutsy on the i3. I don't think I could be comfortable with the limited range given the weight of the gear. I used to lug all my gear in my 5 series. Now I use an X5 (Can you tell I'm a Bimmer nut?) Given that you already lug around the F1, you could personally replace the Harbinger with an L1M2 to use as your personal monitor behind you, you'll find that it feels much like having a full stack behind you, except one that sounds good at...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
Interesting idea. Just read up about it. Our concept is to scale from the smallest places (~50 people cafes) to about 300-500. But most of the time we want to bring Pink Floyd music with an excellent sound to small places that otherwise would never host a PF coverband. No guitar amps, no bass amps, digital drums, all goes into the XAir 18 mixer. And I have a BMW i3 (smaller than a VW Golf) that has to hold all my guitar equipment and the PA, cables, etc. So my desire is a small footprint on...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

Jonathan in Charlotte ·
A few more things to think about: If you are using much compression and EFX on the vocals in the house you are duplicating that in monitors, and that would be a huge contributor to feedback along with the aforementioned inability to EQ separately. I'd strongly encourage you to go to discrete monitor mixes, no matter how you build them, for the reasons mentioned earlier. (whether from a copy of house, house copy to matrix, etc.) You can also try to move the F1 stack a bit back so the vocals...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
ST, JohnL, You just lost me. I don't have an L1 so I can't try what you are asking. And I think you mean 'in driving direction" (flat) when you say "perpendicular to the direction". Now, I can tell you that the F1 subs will not fit upright in the cargo space. The Harbingers will. The F1s have to either 1) lay down flat on top of each other (see pic, bad) or 2) the subs flat and lined up with the passenger seat all the way to the front and the 812 lined up, flat behind the driver's seat. (no...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

ST ·
Hi Tom, I'm sorry, I got mixed up a bit here. I've been talking with another Tom who has two L1®s and two F1s. I've gone back and made a couple of visible edits in my long post above. About the direction of travel stuff, I meant that I never put the L1® sections lengthwise, parallel to a line from front to back of the car. Basically, whenever I'm packing a car, I'm aware of where things will end up in the event of a crash. It's been fun to look at the BMW i3 online. Good food for thought.
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
JohnL, The i3 does about 120 miles on one charge and then as much as you need on the REX. Again, the idea of the small footprint. The Xair does have feedback suppression built in but there is only so much you can do. I just tried something. I cranked the pa up until feedback and then I turned off one effect after the other (Enhancer/exciter, compressor, reverb, delay). I was able to move the master fader up significantly before the feedback returned. So there is something to tinker with.
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

JohnL ·
Hi ST, The i3 has approx 50" of clearance. the beauty of the car is that there is no center hump on the floor. It narrows a little for the wheel wells but not by much. The L1 radiators should fit perpendicular while on top of B2 or the power stand. I used to place them right behind the front seats to minimize velocity in hitting the front seats should I get into a frontal collision. https://secure.bmw.com/com/en/.../technical_data.html
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

ST ·
Hi Tom, For the last 13 years, I've been aware that I need a minimum of 44" (111 cm) to place the lower (longer) section of an L1® Cylindrical Radiator® in a car. I always place them at 90 degrees (perpendicular) to the direction of travel. I've been digging around the web, unsuccessfully, to see if you can lay the L1® Cylindrical Radiator® sections. Have you tried it? ST
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

JohnL ·
Hi TomF1, Sorry that it got side tracked. But ST and I were just theorizing on how many L1s can fit in the i3. The space in the back seat, the footwell area, that can fit about 6-8 L1 radiator sections (3-4 sets) And where the F1s and Harbinger are can fit about 3 B2s and 3 power stands.
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

JohnL ·
120 miles? Hmmm ... Dealer here told me between 70-80 miles before the rex kicks in. Good to hear that you've located a possible source. I'm guessing the excited and reverb
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
That was the 2014-2016 with the 60ah battery. You can get the 2017 with 60ah or 94ah.
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

ST ·
Hi Tom, You've given me a wealth of interesting things to look at. I enjoyed the pictures and reading about the pickups and your car. Have you seen this background information about the L1®? The L1® Approach and the History of Amplification I'm probably the most ardent advocate for the multi L1® band concept that you'll ever meet. My basic rig is a guitar, microphone, Kemper Profiling Amp, Bose T1® and an L1® Compact or L1® Model II depending on the size of the gig. Most of my musical...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

Litesnsirens ·
Let me suggest before you move from F1 to L1 you maybe try renting them for one of your more taxing gigs where you need the volume to cut through a crowd. I went the other way, I had L1s and went to F1s, not directly but that's another story. Anyway, I was unfortunately the only band member contributing to the PA and I could only afford two L1 systems. We ran half the band through the first L1 and the other half through the second. There were venues we played were it didn't quite cut it. The...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

TomF1 ·
Litesnsirens , Thanks for your comments. Looks like we have a lot in common. I'm also the sole financier of all shared equipment and wouldn't dare to ask the rest of the band to BYOL1. Renting is definitely a good idea to let the spark jump over. I'm happy with the sound of the F1 too but they are a bit intimidating for smaller cafes and still heavier and bigger to transport than the L1 I guess. Interestingly you put the monitors last in the chain. I tried that too but had problems with the...
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Re: Looping Monitors into the F1s

Litesnsirens ·
More in common, my band is all digital and direct to board as well. I wasn't worried about the low end being filtered out of the monitors due to the crossover between the 812 and the sub, in fact I was hoping it would be. The frequencies that the subs put out are omni directional and can be heard as well behind the speaker as in front. If the monitors don't have to try to put out those low frequencies it's less taxing on them. Ideally they would just reproduce what the 812s are doing but ST...
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Re: Array configuration for F1 812

ST ·
Hi Mario, Thank you for joining the Community. I'm glad you're here. You can mount the F1 Model 812 on top of the F1 Subwoofer with its integrated stand or you can put it on a tripod stand. In either case, if the audience (ears) are below the bottom of the F1 Model 812 then use the J-position. The J-position is the bottom left picture. Does that help? ST
Topic

Array configuration for F1 812

Mario ·
Which "pattern" is best for the F1 812 for an audience that is seated and the band is playing on the floor and NOT on a riser/stage? Thanks!
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Re: Array configuration for F1 812

Mario ·
Thank you!
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