Ensembles

Doing it right vs Doing it cheap

tommyb
I'm starting a new cover band. The idea is to cover all genres in a unique way (hip hop to country) to this end the largest instrumentation will be (less depending on gig): Brass: 2tmpt 2bone 1tnrsx 1brisx Rythm: 2gtr 1key 1bass 1drummer Vocals: All members to sing (brass into shared mics) The plan is to have everyone going direct so no stage amps and the drummer will be on a Roland V-Session set for complete volume control. Our venues will range from close/intimate coffee shops to larger...Read More...
Hi TommyB Check out the Brothers Groove in Motown, an inspiring band to listen to and have been using the system since October. Check them out HERE . They will tell you all about the system and they play a lot, so you should be able to catch them at your convenience. We have a number of big bands using this. Check out Party on the Moon . They play big fancy events and play all the hits. The lineup is as much as 11, with a 3-piece horn section and 3 front singers. Dennis Smith is the...Read More...

classical guitar quartet

Sounds pretty tempting! For a classical guitar quartet, should we get at least one of the two units with the B1 bass module, especially considering we use a contrabass guitar for some of the pieces? Or, do the CR's themselves reproduce the bass range adequately for classical guitar music?Read More...
Yes. Sorry I forgot that. You should get at least one B1. The only reason to consider two is if you want to use your Cylindrical Radiator(tm) loudspeakers for other purposes than your guitar quartet. For example, if you want to use them to playback recorded music (during breaks, or if you do audio production work etc.) Let me know if you have any other questions.Read More...

classical guitar quartet

Our quartet is looking for a better way to be heard in venues of 50 to 300 people. Currently we all have pickups with preamps on our classical guitars, and one of us plays a contrabass classical for some pieces. Any experience or ideas about a classical guitar quartet out there? And could we get by with just one unit?Read More...
Hello and thanks for writing. If you spend a little time on this forum, you will see that your application is a natural for this new approach. The whole approach is based on the idea that the best way to renovate the horrible problems of live amplified music is to go "back to the future" -- to apply the benefits of acoustic music to performances with amplification. Since you already play acoustically, this is a natural. Ideally, each player has one Cylindrical Radiator(tm) speaker: this is...Read More...

Converting from triple system to this new approach

Convincing the band As a guitar player (22 years and counting) I feel qualified to make the claim that we tend to be the most challenged by this new approach. Especially when someone suggests that our beloved tube amp is part of the problem with the triple system approach. When I was first introduced to the system I had more than a few “yeah, but …” moments, but then I really started to listen to the folks who had played with the system. They were loving the system and trying to convince me...Read More...
The guitar player I recently posted a reply to a guy who said he’s trying to get someone over “GPS – Guitar Player Syndrome.” I thought it was a great way to describe what I went through as a player. Here is my reply. As a guitar player with a long history of GPS and I’ve got a secret to share … I’m in a 6 step GPS program. (Hi, my name is Steve and I play electric guitar ...) Wouldn't it be great if everyone in the audience could hear great guitar tone not just the guitar player? Here’s the...Read More...

Blonde and Confused...

Ok. The purchase is made: Two PASs and two bass modules. We are three women, three lead/harmony vocals on Shure Beta 58s; Guild acoustic guitar with LRBaggs pickup, Zeta stand-up electric bass, drums. I have read thru all these forums and FAQs last night and today and feel no closer to actually knowing how to set us up (other than buy a 3d system-which I cannot afford right now!). We utilize a triangle-shape setup with drums in the middle so we can all see each other. Your help is much...Read More...
Maybe I can help you setup. I play in a 3 piece group. three vocals, guitar, drum machine/sequencer, and synth. First of all no matter where you stand in your arrangement the sound will be awesome. It took me about three songs to believe what I was hearing. I run my drum machine/sequencer,guitar and my mic through one module, the two girls and the synth through the other. The drums and bass need to stay together and whoever sings the least of the three of you in that module also. The guitar...Read More...

A Unique Ensemble

Hi, We are a seven piece, mostly original, rock/jazz/funk/ heavy-on-vocal-harmony band, . . and our line - up is, (left to right from audience),: 1] Lead guitar - Jeff 2] Keys1,Vox1, Hand Perc. - Kyle D. 3] Ac.Gt1,Vox2 - Danny C. 4] Drums - Jack B. 5] Ac.Gt2, Vox3, Bass - Craig G. 6] Bs.Gt., Vox4, - Casey 7] Keys2, Multi-Perc., Vox5 - Me 1, 3, 5, and 6, are pulled a bit forward in the curve, physically. We're lookin' for a basic pole to floor box ratio, here, . . we can probably sort out the...Read More...

Crammed Corner Stage

One of the venues my band plays at is a medium sized (2500 sq.ft.) club with a corner stage setup. The stage is perfect for the medium sized grand piano alone, and then we add drums, upright bass, and I'm out front with a mic singing. I'm very excited about trying out the PAS, and have ordered a system with two L1/R1/B1 units. My question is, what's the best placement of the equipment and which instruments/vocals should be run into each PAS? We push the piano back and it occupies the back...Read More...
Wow. Tough environment. Yikes. But it sounds like you made the very best of it. Have you tried the trick of tilting the mikes up at 45 degrees? This can often give you that extra edge against feedback in these very tough circumstances. Also, even though it may not be the way you'd mix on a record for perfect fidelity, often turning the highs down a touch will make a big difference. Moving the mic or the PS1 power stand so that they are not direcly on axis of each other (this can me just...Read More...

Mixing seems a bit hedgy

I am enjoying reading the discussions of this system and can tell there are many who are thrilled with it. My first thought upon learning that a band generally would use several independant towers was "Who's going to mix the band". In the "olden days" (I'm not that old) we young bands couldn't afford a massive P.A. so we each just played through our amps, the drummer was unmiked, and had the singer sing through a borrowed keyboard amp or something of the sort. This made for volume wars...Read More...
I agree with Tony and would like to add, imagine this: 1) Everyone in the band brings their favorite instrument(s) to the gig and the right L1 system for them 2) Everyone in the band knows how to work the mix (you've learned to play which is WAY harder then learning/remembering how to mix) 3) Everyone in the band plays in other bands (see items 1 & 2) How cool is that future? Everyone brings their fair share of the sound reinforcement system; everyone stores their fair share. If I play...Read More...

mixer?

In a response to an ealier post about plugging in two mikes and two acoustic-electric guitars into a single bass package, it was suggested that a mixer would be the way to go. I am clueless here. If there are 4 inputs that can be controlled remotely, what function does the mixer serve? Best Wishes, MikeRead More...
Thank you - that makes sense. Best Wishes, MikeRead More...

3 pc. set up

Hi Guys, I play in a 3 pc. rockabilly band and were getting ready to start doing some gigs. I really am not looking forward to humping our standard pa system from gig to gig, so Ive been trying to talk my band members into going w/ the PAS system(s). Our onstage setup from L to R is upright bass ( gk amp, 4x10 spkrs.)w vocals , 5 pc drum kit w/ vocals, and guitar ( the guit. player plays through 2 fender bassman amps in stereo )w/ vocals. How can I convince the guitar player to ditch the...Read More...
Are you are usually micing the drums ? As far as I can see you could use two systems. One for your bass and vocals and the second for the guitar and the drum vocals. It seems like your guitar player is very serious about his amps. You can check in the Guitar/Strings forum on the different ways to get good guitar tone with our system and also what other guitar players (and even hard-liners ) have found. The quick answer is, to use whatever amp sounds good to you and mic it as long as you can...Read More...

multi-instrumentalist acoustic trio

mbanshee
We have just heard about the PAS from our bandmate's son, who works at Guitar Center. (He's also in a band.) we're just leaving to tour NYC area for 12 days so won't be taking it to try this time. But we'd like to take it for a spin later in January after we get back. Setup advice welcome in advance! I think we'll do best with 3 PAS's, of course, but wonder if we could start with 2, sharing between bandmates 1 and 2 (I'm 3). 1: vocal, hammered dulcimer direct, fiddle (w/Crown GLM condensor...Read More...

What is enough

I am in a three piece group using guitar, keyboards, midi drums/sequencer and three vocals. We play ballads, praise and worship and light rock/pop tunes. I am weary of the traditional sound system headaches, no I am sick to death of the constant problems that arise. We play small venues from coffee houses to outdoor gigs from 50 to 200 people. Power is not the problem it is the inability to hear ourselves correctly if that makes since. Your advice on how much would be needed to cover our...Read More...
Hello vmx_12, Thanks for writing in. I have been to Montreal and loved it. People told me "go to Quebec." I am hoping to do that soon. I love the culture in French Canada. Luckily, my wife speaks French so we can get along very well. Who knows? Maybe we will come to see your band? I do not recommend just one Cylindrical Radiator(tm) speaker for a four piece rock band. Two Cylindrical Radiator(tm) speakers with two B1s each is a minimum I think. I would put lead-guitar/vocal and...Read More...

Celtic PAS...

Hi, I have read every word on line, including most of the message board stuff. I also have the larger book from my Guitar Center person… I am totally sold on the concept and the idea… I have been battling this sound system thing for the 14 or so years that my Celtic band, Odd Enough ( www.oddenough.com), has been playing. We are primarily an aggressive acoustic band featuring guitar, vocal, mandolin/bazooki, Accordion/Whistles, Bass/Vocals and we recently brought on a full kit drummer. We...Read More...
No problems at the gig this evening. I would advise everyone to be sure that everyone in the band completely understands the system and how it works before hand; there was some concern that it would sound like a “transistor radio”. I can only assume that this is a reference to the small size of the individual speakers… That was taken care of as soon as I put on a CD while we were setting up. It was a VERY small stage and the drummer was a little overpowering as I am used to in ear monitors...Read More...

Two rather long scenarios

gitarzan
I'm currently working with two musical organizations that have some considerations that I haven't seen discussed anywhere yet. This has turned out to be rather long and some of it may not be of general interest, so it might be best to respond to me off of the public forum for now. If you would prefer to discuss it on the on the public forum, please me know and I'll edit it appropriately and repost it... [This message was edited by Ken-at-Bose on Wed December 10 2003 at 08:06 PM.]Read More...
Hi Larry, Tony-at-Bose will contact you to give you advice. Once we get it boiled down, we'd love it if you'd post. THANKS.Read More...

More venue considerations...

I have a question regarding a specific venue (or two), and how well the PAS will deliver the music to this type of room. This is actually the best room in town for listeners, in my humble opinion, but I wonder what will happen with the PAS. The specs according to the venue's web site are as follows: Trapezoidal stage: 20'w x 32'w x 18'd x 3'h (front,rear,depth,height) [In other words, a great stage.] Seating: 250-cabaret style / 400 capacity Okay, the seating is the tricky part. Try to...Read More...
That place looks nice! With the stage being 3 feet high you should get excellent coverage for the floor area and the first "balcony" which wraps around that seating area but is 5 feet higher. I couldn't see from the floorplans how high above the floor the upper level is, but my guess is, its fairly high up and the Cylindrical Radiator(tm) loudspeaker would not reach there. In this case we would recommand to bring all the line outs of the power stands into an external mixer and use that to...Read More...

System for Church

I lead a Christian group at our church. We play anywhere from a folk sound to a "classic rock" sound. Usually have up to 6 singers, 2 guitars (acoustic and/or electric), electronic drums, percussion set (one or two mikes) , keyboard, and bass. That is worst case- sometimes a smaller group. We also mike the choir. Our current system is a 16 channel mackie mixer, amp stack driving- yamaha PA speakers and wedge monitors. We have a multimedia workstation in the back of the sanctuary. The...Read More...
HI..Ken Wow..wow...wow ..We bought 4 PAS last night but GC only has 2 unit (including at the floor), So we took 2 unit and GC promise we will get the rest today. We try last nigt and its about 4 people from from audio visual dept, they were shock...they never heard sound just like we were listen last night. We still try with our mackie sr24 and can't wait to hook with another 2 PAS that will get it today. Sound is totaly different with our previous conv. system. Looks like we solved our...Read More...

Using this as a PA system from my mixer.

esh2004
I was wondering how this system would perform in the following scenario: Normally I use a small Mackie mixer for my acoustic guitar (transducer) and CD player which plays the rhythm tracks that accompany me. I have a Yamaha reverb plugged into the AUX send/return and a compressor inserted on the guitar channel. I run the signal out through a pair of Mackie SRM-450 powered speakers. Could I simply replace the Mackie speakers with a pair of these cylindrical speakers for my main outs. More...Read More...
Hello Music*Mark, This is an entirely new approach to live music amplification, based on ten years of research. As you can see from the website, it works in a completely different and naturalistic way, something that no other speaker or speaker system does. Multiple patents have been submitted because it is so different. My most sincere advice is to read what some of your fellow musicians have found about this new approach through actual use. Give it a try. It is risk free. I am confident...Read More...

Chamber Music

Hi Ken and Cliff, we 'll have a chamber music with an acoustic babygrand piano, a keyboard, two acoustic guitars w/ pickups, 4 vocal mikes. We play mostly ballads that range ~95-103db. The place will be a 2500sqft restaurant with an audience of 200. I am looking at the deluxe Personalized Amplification System and wondering if this system can accomodate the event.Read More...
NC Andy I'm glad to hear that the system works well for you and you application. Some of the very low-cost mixers seem to produce hum by themselves. From what we've seen so far, there seems to be significant variance from unit to unit even if its the same model. The problem is not in the pre-amps (which are indeed quite clean), but seem to come from the power supply, in particular if its a "wall-wart" supply. If you have access to a second mixer and/or power supply, try to swap them out and...Read More...

Sound Stage setup for the Ensemble

colcliff-at-bose
Here's something to think about when setting up the ensemble: Soundstage. We make good use of it in our ping-pong section of the "Music is Human" show (Cissy Strut). The 4-bar intro starts with bass and drum, stage left-center (audience right-center), switches to guitar stage right (Goodsy) for one bar of the intro, then electric piano stage far left for the 2nd half of the intro, then into it. Those who heard this at our various shows (Atlanta, Hollywood, Chicago and Framingham so far) were...Read More...

Systems per Member

I have a four piece bluegrass band, we all plug in and all sing. I was wondering if it would be possible to use two of the single bass systems for my entire band plugging instruments into one and vocals into the other. remote control would be asigned to just two people clearly, but other than that, can you see any obvious problems?Read More...
Hey Tom, where in N. Florida do you live? My band What The...? (one of the bands Bose selected to demonstrate the Personalized Amplification System) is based in Atlanta but we may be playing a gig down in your area soon. In fact, if you have suggestions for a venue local to you that might be suitable, we'd even call them and try to work it into our schedule. What The...? http://www.what-the.comRead More...

Can bands mix themselves???

Ken-at-Bose
A better question would be "what band can't mix themselves?" Every musician I've ever met can do this, in their bones. Why? Because that's how people play acoustically, and they've been doing it since the beginning of humankind. Literally. I've been told that there are some players in amplified ensembles that are so deaf, so selfish, that they won't be able to contribute to the self-mixing process. How would anyone know? With a conventional amplification system it's impossible to tell where...Read More...

The Matrix

colcliff-at-bose
This is the title of a popular movie that deals with “what we think we perceive is what we perceive”. Of course, this is basically true. So, when we play music for an audience, we see our musical partners or bandmates, we see musical instruments and we see our audience. Normally, we also see a stage crammed full of audio equipment and technical complication. We also see the back of a PA system (“The Mains”) that is delivering, somehow, some part of our performance in someone else’s concept...Read More...
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